LittleNipper
Gold Member
- Jan 3, 2013
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I went to a public elementary school and a public high school. Neither presented the Nativity. The Community church I attended did present the Nativity; however, that was a combination of Bible reading and selected carols. And though I was once a wise man in a borrowed mens satin and velvet robe with a cardboard crown and sung with two other boys, "WE THREE KINGS", it was common knowledge from our Sunday School teacher that 3 gifts doesn't mean that there were three magi. So, for the most part our church tried to stay away from poetic license when it came to GOD's Word.That is all quite lovely.Luke was a greek physician who never met Jesus but wrote an important book of the New Testament anyway which describes "history"
I don't know you, but I'm pretty sure you did not grow up learning Josephus, Tacitus, and all the rest in a Sunday school.The church told me nothing.Yes, the Zealots.That temple culture is gone, burned up in a fire, as Malachi prophesied (Mal 4:1), as well as others.The OP discovered Ehrman.
lol yes, it's funny how these trolls will read everything under the sun but the books themselves. They have no idea if Ehrman knows a thing, which is why I mentioned him in that thread a few days ago that sent this tard off on a Google Scholar binge.
Let's see what mentioning Walther Bauer and Elaine Pagels brings up among the deviants and loons; they're the main inventors of the 'Constantine rewrote everything' idiocy, hoping to make their discovery of some old 'Gospel Of Thomas' find they made in the deserts of Egypt and then tried to sell it as some Earth shaking event that overturned all we know about Jesus, puffing up their own careers. Pagels does indeed sell a lot of books, too , has quite a career peddling 'missing gospels' and babbling Gnostic nonsense to dope addled hippies and cranks.
I never read anything by "PAGELS" or "Bauer" I read the NT-----old ladies in my town handed the books out way back in the 50s, I did not have a whole lot of "material" to read. I was never a drug user. The silly crap which is so clearly a fraud in the NT was OBVIOUS to me before I knew the name
CONSTANTINE. I never read anything by anyone or suggested that CONSTANTINE rewrote it. I do not even know if Constantine was literate. I got my education in christianity in a very christian town and in churches were friendly, kindly christian mothers took me, along with their daughters to SUNDAY SCHOOL
lol after repeatedly being asked what Constantine rewrote, after claiming he invented the NT for years, Rosie now claims she never ran around claiming that. As for 'fraud', she should take a gander at a lot of that rabbinical nonsense some Jews try to pass off as 'Judaism' the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox are fond of peddling.
What people need to get out of their heads is that these cultists are 'The' Jews, when in real life they are only 'Some' Jews, and their rubbish has little or nothing to do with the pre-exilic Judaism of Moses and Isaiah and others; the Babylonian Jews alienated most Jews and drove them out of the sect long before the Romans came along. This cult was then reduced to just a small cult of ultra-racists among other factionsup to the revolt that destroyed the Temple and run by surviving Pharisees and rabbis after the revolts. The Temple didn't represent Judaism, nor does rebuilding it have anything to do with the original Jews. It merely served the self-interests of one group. It divided rather than unified.
Josephus recalled the grand, unified vision of the prophets, that as for the temple, “God had for certain long ago doomed it to the fire.” (Wars 6.4.5)
That harlot Jerusalem no longer exists. The ancient city governed by a priesthood went up in smoke; the modern city governed by a parliament is entirely different and irrelevant to the biblical narrative.
It was a vanity of Solomon's, and the '2nd Temple' a monument to the egoes of the Returning exiles. They centralized the sect and left it vulnerable for just the fate it suffered, while alienating around 90% of the tribes with ridiculous 'racial purity' laws and legalistic rubbish. If Rome hadn't burned it down some faction of Jews themselves probably would have.
A Roman soldier threw a torch that set the temple ablaze (much to General Titus' chagrin), but the Zealots brought a fury to the war and to the moderate Jews that reverberated the strains of the Olivet Discourse loudly and clearly.
there is no such history----but your struggle to shoehorn that which you WISH into the poetic rhetoric of this or that bible passage is amusing.
The "zealots" vs "the moderate jews" is a church
sophistry used to justify the barbarity of the Romans.------I am really delighted with the
"OBVIOUS ANQUISH OF TITUS" at the conflagration
the destroyed the flammable parts of the Temple. Now I remember----he was so desperate to put the fire out that he ran desperately with a pail of water----what else did church lady tell you?
The "zealots" vs "the moderate jews" is a church - huh? You're not telling me anything, either.
oh----you don't know. Church Doctrine----the stuff christian kids learn in Sunday School constitutes the
christian ethos. I grew up with it
Churches do not teach this stuff.
Of course not-----I learned sunday school stuff in sunday school-----like all about the wicked innkeeper who did not like Joseph and Mary so he did not give them a room------so poor little jesus was born in a stable. On the playground I learned that if I had not killed Jesus----he would still be alive. I learned about the Nuremburg laws from survivors and about
Canon law ----interestingly, from the details of SHARIAH LAW which at its base is nothing much more or less than a point by point copy of Canon law. I learned Shariah law from survivors. I did not READ about those issues until I was about 20
Luke was a follower and student of Paul, who was in turn a student of one the great Jewish teachers of the age. And re the first REvolt, there were four major factions, not just 'Zealots', also given in Johnson's summaries, and a faction or two that actually backed the Romans. Rosie must think Josephus and assorted Roman writers and Philo are illegal books that can't be sold to gentiles or something, another clue she was raised by crazy racist bigots.
you are very MUCH out of sync. If Paul ever had contact with Gamliel (for which there is no historic
evidence) -----it would have been in a time preceding
any interaction with Luke----for which there is no real
historic evidence. To be more realistic-----the putative relationship is an after thought of WISHFUL
THINKING by the sophist christians of the Constantine era. Gamliel taught in Jerusalem-----as to Paul in Jerusalem------history tells us------not much if at all
I never heard that the innkeeper was evil. If anything a clean manger with fresh straw was likely far more comfortable for Mary to give birth than a crowded inn and a cramped room.There was no room in the inn. There is no mention of an inn keeper in the Bible story. Jesus came to save that which was lost and be the final sacrificial lamb. HE had to give up HIS life. No one took it from HIM. You didn't kill Jesus; however, HE did come to die for your sins and my sins.Luke was a greek physician who never met Jesus but wrote an important book of the New Testament anyway which describes "history"
I don't know you, but I'm pretty sure you did not grow up learning Josephus, Tacitus, and all the rest in a Sunday school.The church told me nothing.Yes, the Zealots.That temple culture is gone, burned up in a fire, as Malachi prophesied (Mal 4:1), as well as others.The OP discovered Ehrman.
lol yes, it's funny how these trolls will read everything under the sun but the books themselves. They have no idea if Ehrman knows a thing, which is why I mentioned him in that thread a few days ago that sent this tard off on a Google Scholar binge.
Let's see what mentioning Walther Bauer and Elaine Pagels brings up among the deviants and loons; they're the main inventors of the 'Constantine rewrote everything' idiocy, hoping to make their discovery of some old 'Gospel Of Thomas' find they made in the deserts of Egypt and then tried to sell it as some Earth shaking event that overturned all we know about Jesus, puffing up their own careers. Pagels does indeed sell a lot of books, too , has quite a career peddling 'missing gospels' and babbling Gnostic nonsense to dope addled hippies and cranks.
I never read anything by "PAGELS" or "Bauer" I read the NT-----old ladies in my town handed the books out way back in the 50s, I did not have a whole lot of "material" to read. I was never a drug user. The silly crap which is so clearly a fraud in the NT was OBVIOUS to me before I knew the name
CONSTANTINE. I never read anything by anyone or suggested that CONSTANTINE rewrote it. I do not even know if Constantine was literate. I got my education in christianity in a very christian town and in churches were friendly, kindly christian mothers took me, along with their daughters to SUNDAY SCHOOL
lol after repeatedly being asked what Constantine rewrote, after claiming he invented the NT for years, Rosie now claims she never ran around claiming that. As for 'fraud', she should take a gander at a lot of that rabbinical nonsense some Jews try to pass off as 'Judaism' the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox are fond of peddling.
What people need to get out of their heads is that these cultists are 'The' Jews, when in real life they are only 'Some' Jews, and their rubbish has little or nothing to do with the pre-exilic Judaism of Moses and Isaiah and others; the Babylonian Jews alienated most Jews and drove them out of the sect long before the Romans came along. This cult was then reduced to just a small cult of ultra-racists among other factionsup to the revolt that destroyed the Temple and run by surviving Pharisees and rabbis after the revolts. The Temple didn't represent Judaism, nor does rebuilding it have anything to do with the original Jews. It merely served the self-interests of one group. It divided rather than unified.
Josephus recalled the grand, unified vision of the prophets, that as for the temple, “God had for certain long ago doomed it to the fire.” (Wars 6.4.5)
That harlot Jerusalem no longer exists. The ancient city governed by a priesthood went up in smoke; the modern city governed by a parliament is entirely different and irrelevant to the biblical narrative.
It was a vanity of Solomon's, and the '2nd Temple' a monument to the egoes of the Returning exiles. They centralized the sect and left it vulnerable for just the fate it suffered, while alienating around 90% of the tribes with ridiculous 'racial purity' laws and legalistic rubbish. If Rome hadn't burned it down some faction of Jews themselves probably would have.
A Roman soldier threw a torch that set the temple ablaze (much to General Titus' chagrin), but the Zealots brought a fury to the war and to the moderate Jews that reverberated the strains of the Olivet Discourse loudly and clearly.
there is no such history----but your struggle to shoehorn that which you WISH into the poetic rhetoric of this or that bible passage is amusing.
The "zealots" vs "the moderate jews" is a church
sophistry used to justify the barbarity of the Romans.------I am really delighted with the
"OBVIOUS ANQUISH OF TITUS" at the conflagration
the destroyed the flammable parts of the Temple. Now I remember----he was so desperate to put the fire out that he ran desperately with a pail of water----what else did church lady tell you?
The "zealots" vs "the moderate jews" is a church - huh? You're not telling me anything, either.
oh----you don't know. Church Doctrine----the stuff christian kids learn in Sunday School constitutes the
christian ethos. I grew up with it
Churches do not teach this stuff.
Of course not-----I learned sunday school stuff in sunday school-----like all about the wicked innkeeper who did not like Joseph and Mary so he did not give them a room------so poor little jesus was born in a stable. On the playground I learned that if I had not killed Jesus----he would still be alive. I learned about the Nuremburg laws from survivors and about
Canon law ----interestingly, from the details of SHARIAH LAW which at its base is nothing much more or less than a point by point copy of Canon law. I learned Shariah law from survivors. I did not READ about those issues until I was about 20
I referred to the NT and that which WASP and catholice kids learn in Sunday school
I grew up in a town with lots of churches and a majority christian population and INTERESTINGLY half of those being protestant and the other half catholic. There was even a catholic school in the town ---grades K thru 8. Every year we got the CHRISTMAS PLAY----performed by the catholic school. The innkeeper was always presented as a STEREOTYPE JEW with black beard and Mary as a blond blue eyed angelic looking thing. In fact, in christian literature---later on---the INNKEEPER is also presented as some sort of selfish greedy bastard. Did you pass english lit classes in grammar school and high school?