Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

[emilynghiem]

"not promoting the injustice of punishing the innocent."

God is promoting the punishing of the innocent when demanding a sacrifice of an innocent man.

Only the most foolish will think otherwise and ignore the precedent set by God.

Recognize that or go away.

Regards
DL

Hi DL GreatestIam
Let's start with this point and recognize two ways of seeing it
* either God is demanding it
* or the laws of cause and effect and consequence are causing it

For example:
If we pollute the river with lead, and it causes cancer in children,
is God demanding that the children die of cancer.
Or are the LAWS OF NATURE showing us we are abusing the environment
and this is going to backfire on us and injure the innocent?

You are like saying "GOD is in charge and demanding children die of cancer
to pay the price of the pollution caused by others"

I am saying if we don't solve the cause, then by natural laws, innocent victims suffer and die.

GreatestIam do you acknowledge the difference
in how you frame it as God demanding that something occur
vs.
I am saying because we allowed the problem to go on,
then the consequences of that is someone innocent had to die before we change the path we're on.

Are you okay with that difference GreatestIam
Thank you for an interesting thread
You and others are posting things that are very enriching
and helping me to understand why there is conflict in church history.

Very good, thanks!

 

[Indeependent]

Josephus said James was killed in Jerusalem . You may be thinking of Steven who was stoned at the feet of Paul. Yes and right again, Romans ruled Jews could not execute as of 30 AD according to the jewish library and John:


John 18:31New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

31 At this, Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves, and judge him according to your law.” The Jews answered him, “We do not have the right to execute anyone,”[a]

Rabban Simeon b. Gamaliel said: 'If so, they would have multiplied murderers in Israel.'" Instructive though this is, it is merely an academic discussion, the right of imposing capital punishment having been taken from the Sanhedrin by the Romans a century before, "40 years before the Destruction of the Temple" (Sanh. 41a; TJ, Sanh. 1:18a).

Capital Punishment | Jewish Virtual Library

right----according to the writings in the NT------and the accepted catholic partyline ----the REASON that the Sanhedrin did not execute Jesus in approximately 30 AD was because they did not have the POWER to do so. The ALTERNATE explanation is that they WOULD have executed him but were afraid to do so
because he was so "popular"------so they "forced" Pilate to do it. James----
according to the Catholic church was executed in 62 AD ----"by the Sanhedrin"----
which had no power to engage in executions by then. (James---not Stephen) Your source---penny dear----does
not support your conclusions or the claims of the catholic church. Your source
makes the claim that the Sanhedrin was not permitted to engage in execution by
30 AD and the standard party line is the reason that Jesus was not murdered
by "the jews" is because he was so popular with the general public that the
evil jooos were AFRAID to do it. Make up your minds. In fact----what is
a far more realistic conclusion based on reality is that the Romans wanted
DA JOOOOS to do it------but even the roman shill sadducees refused because
Jesus was not guilty of a crime warranting execution according to Jewish law.
The only way Pilate could get rid of him was by DOING IT HIMSELF

The fascinating fact is that Jews don't give a sh!t about Jesus; just the behavior of his believers who won't leave us alone.

Which speaks to the intelligence of Jews compared to the less intelligent.

They are not idol worshipers while Christianity and Islam have become just that.

Jesus said to seek God but they will not and have settled for an idol.

Regards
DL

It's because educating your children is a Biblical Command.

If a man had to be ordered to educate his children then God sure screwed up when making that one.

Regards
DL

Ask the multitude who don't educate their children.

 

[emilynghiem]

Josephus said James was killed in Jerusalem . You may be thinking of Steven who was stoned at the feet of Paul. Yes and right again, Romans ruled Jews could not execute as of 30 AD according to the jewish library and John:


John 18:31New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

31 At this, Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves, and judge him according to your law.” The Jews answered him, “We do not have the right to execute anyone,”[a]

Rabban Simeon b. Gamaliel said: 'If so, they would have multiplied murderers in Israel.'" Instructive though this is, it is merely an academic discussion, the right of imposing capital punishment having been taken from the Sanhedrin by the Romans a century before, "40 years before the Destruction of the Temple" (Sanh. 41a; TJ, Sanh. 1:18a).

Capital Punishment | Jewish Virtual Library

right----according to the writings in the NT------and the accepted catholic partyline ----the REASON that the Sanhedrin did not execute Jesus in approximately 30 AD was because they did not have the POWER to do so. The ALTERNATE explanation is that they WOULD have executed him but were afraid to do so
because he was so "popular"------so they "forced" Pilate to do it. James----
according to the Catholic church was executed in 62 AD ----"by the Sanhedrin"----
which had no power to engage in executions by then. (James---not Stephen) Your source---penny dear----does
not support your conclusions or the claims of the catholic church. Your source
makes the claim that the Sanhedrin was not permitted to engage in execution by
30 AD and the standard party line is the reason that Jesus was not murdered
by "the jews" is because he was so popular with the general public that the
evil jooos were AFRAID to do it. Make up your minds. In fact----what is
a far more realistic conclusion based on reality is that the Romans wanted
DA JOOOOS to do it------but even the roman shill sadducees refused because
Jesus was not guilty of a crime warranting execution according to Jewish law.
The only way Pilate could get rid of him was by DOING IT HIMSELF

The fascinating fact is that Jews don't give a sh!t about Jesus; just the behavior of his believers who won't leave us alone.

Which speaks to the intelligence of Jews compared to the less intelligent.

They are not idol worshipers while Christianity and Islam have become just that.

Jesus said to seek God but they will not and have settled for an idol.

Regards
DL

It's because educating your children is a Biblical Command.

If a man had to be ordered to educate his children then God sure screwed up when making that one.

Regards
DL

Haha yes, most people would say God screwed up making human beings so screwy.
Exactly! GreatestIam

 

[GreatestIam]

I appreciate your honesty, and the links. I will read them.

I get what you are saying about religion , so many out there have used religion in a self righteous way or for their own
purposes and gain. They have turned people away from God as they feel if this is what a christian is ...forget it...

I understand where you are. Look at these jerks in politics trying to gain votes...pisses me off a lot..
This is not at all what a spiritual relationship with Jesus is..not at all.

Religion has been used since the beginning of time in wars, ect. to gain, money and power.
In our generation alone we will see the people using scripture for their own hatred, like Jerry Farwell saying 9/11 happened because of gays.. What a loser!

In 1992 Pat Robertson ( owner of the 700 club) started a christian ( name only) movement . He is a very political man who blinded so many with lies to sway them to vote a certain way . He uses his TV station to spread his agenda.
This movement opened the door to hatred of gays, drunks, well you know. Twisting the scriptures to fit their agenda.
So many are still blinded ...Hatred of satan runs out of their hearts, to gain money and power.

A personal relationship with Christ is nothing about that..It is called Personal because it is only between you and God.
The Holy spirit guiding your heart to love , we show others by our hearts, not with words of judgement . The bible is a guide to live by , not to hold it up in the air to judge others and make up their man made rules.
All you have to do is ask God to show you the truth and He will.


.

Thanks for this.

When you follow the links I gave you, google to the Vatican's painting of creation painted by Michelangelo. Note the background God sits in and see that it looks exactly like the right hemisphere of your brain. That is where God resides. While at the Vatican, note that the largest sculpture they own is of the pineal gland that is said to activate our third eye. Jesus uses the term single eye.

Now apply that to these quotes.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I hope all this work does not discourage you.

Let me know what you think.

Regards
DL

The 1st time I read it, I was like..What??

And then I read it again, and let me know if I am right.

When the light of God touches our soul, a third eye opens up in our brain to the truth into the spiritual realm, lighting our spirit to see the miracle of Jesus, and it all makes sense, a whole new existence .
Where as when the eye is closed, so is our soul, and do stupid things using religion.


.

very hinduistic -------the pineal gland is not an eye

Correct. Think of it as the switch that opens your inner eye.

Or do you deny these quotes?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

what is there to deny? the lines are consistent with the poetic imagery used
in those days. It is ALL over the writings of those days

It is not poetry. It is methodology that the church will never talk about.

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

Who is this tyrannical murderer??

You don't know? Constantine,,,,,,,,<<such a bloody roman barbarian that there
are some Christian theologians who refuse to accept him as a Christian.....
or a "saint"

I didn't know Constantine was canonized by anyone. His story, as far as I remember, comes to us from Eusebius and doesn't present the guy as very spiritual. His various dreams and visions, including the famous cross in the sky, fit in much better with contemporary pagan beliefs than with the teachings of the Christian churches.

Constantine was canonized in the EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH. His
contribution to CANON LAW----was codified in JUSTINIAN LAW and includes
those laws which legalized the Inquisition. The Inquisition was responsible for
the genocide of something like 100s of millions in that it justified the genocides
that-----POPE FRANCES acknowledged recently that took place in the
Americas. Constantine's contribution also form the basis for the shariah laws
of DHIMMIA and Adolf's Nuremburg laws. <<< Not a nice guy. His mother,
Helen----seems to be the more popular saint amongst the eastern orthodox----
but Constantine is DEFINITELY a big shot saint for the eastern orthodox.
He saw a giant cross in the air------I still remember the picture of that event
in my ninth grade history text book ------in days of very olde, or yore----or
whenever it was that I was in the ninth grade

Thanks for the information. Good to know. By coincidence, I am reading Constantine the Emperor by David Potter, rich in detail about the secular background.

You might like this piece. It speaks of Constantine's deeper motivations and plans to overshadow or become a new Jesus.

He died just a touch too soon.

[MOVIE] Secrets of Christianity – Selling Christianity

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam
This FALSE teaching is what Christians call ANTICHRIST.
The corruption of the true spiritual laws and teachings for the POLITICAL POWER and control.

So the confusion is what terms are we going to use for the
* A. true spiritual and universal laws (which you are saying are the right way)
* B. false and corrupt teachings (which you are saying are misleading and misguiding people)

If you use "Christianity and Christian" to stand for B
then this is confusing with people who use ANTICHRIST/FALSE PROPHET to stand for B
(and who use CHRISTIAN to stand for A)

We are going to have to find common terms for
A/True and B/False
So it doesn't cause confusion if you are using CHRISTIAN to mean the ANTICHRIST path.

How about using the terms
A. True spiritual teachings - Universal Truth
B. False political corruption - False Propaganda
How about True Christian Meaning vs. False Christian Teaching?

Can you see a better way to work that part out, where it isn't
one side using CHRISTIAN to mean A
when you use CHRISTIAN to mean B.

 

[GreatestIam]

If one wishes to be greater than me, all they have to do is show how they are greater.

Jesus, the Jews and I all believe in a Divine Council and the supremacy of man over the Gods.

I am a Gnostic Christian, but our beliefs are not what Christianity says they are. We lost the God wars and they distorted our belief system. The lies have been known since the findings of our scriptures and myths at Nag Hammadi.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose revenue and people.

Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

I appreciate your honesty, and the links. I will read them.

I get what you are saying about religion , so many out there have used religion in a self righteous way or for their own
purposes and gain. They have turned people away from God as they feel if this is what a christian is ...forget it...

I understand where you are. Look at these jerks in politics trying to gain votes...pisses me off a lot..
This is not at all what a spiritual relationship with Jesus is..not at all.

Religion has been used since the beginning of time in wars, ect. to gain, money and power.
In our generation alone we will see the people using scripture for their own hatred, like Jerry Farwell saying 9/11 happened because of gays.. What a loser!

In 1992 Pat Robertson ( owner of the 700 club) started a christian ( name only) movement . He is a very political man who blinded so many with lies to sway them to vote a certain way . He uses his TV station to spread his agenda.
This movement opened the door to hatred of gays, drunks, well you know. Twisting the scriptures to fit their agenda.
So many are still blinded ...Hatred of satan runs out of their hearts, to gain money and power.

A personal relationship with Christ is nothing about that..It is called Personal because it is only between you and God.
The Holy spirit guiding your heart to love , we show others by our hearts, not with words of judgement . The bible is a guide to live by , not to hold it up in the air to judge others and make up their man made rules.
All you have to do is ask God to show you the truth and He will.


.

Thanks for this.

When you follow the links I gave you, google to the Vatican's painting of creation painted by Michelangelo. Note the background God sits in and see that it looks exactly like the right hemisphere of your brain. That is where God resides. While at the Vatican, note that the largest sculpture they own is of the pineal gland that is said to activate our third eye. Jesus uses the term single eye.

Now apply that to these quotes.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I hope all this work does not discourage you.

Let me know what you think.

Regards
DL

The 1st time I read it, I was like..What??

And then I read it again, and let me know if I am right.

When the light of God touches our soul, a third eye opens up in our brain to the truth into the spiritual realm, lighting our spirit to see the miracle of Jesus, and it all makes sense, a whole new existence .
Where as when the eye is closed, so is our soul, and do stupid things using religion.

BTW: it is true how the eyes are the gate to the inner soul.


.

Not quite.

You, by seeking God, are the one who is activating your pineal gland and it activate your third eye. That can be seen as bringing your right hemisphere more in tune with the left hemisphere and then enlightenment takes place. You end in using your whole mind instead of just the one side. Both side are always in use but the activation of the pineal gland intensifies, if I can use that term, your thinking.

Your God, is not some outside force. Note how Michelangelo showed him. He is just your higher self waiting for you.

Look up the Father Complex that Jung and Freud wrote about. That father and what we are calling God here is the same entity.

There is no other unless you want to fall into supernatural belief and as the quotes I gave you of Jesus' sayings indicate, there is no such supernatural entity.

This is more of an Eastern Jesus and not the Roman ass kisser that Constantine created.

Jesus asked. Have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?--- in scripture.

Most of us have.

Regards
DL

yeah ok ----but your neuroanatomy is a bit off

I like to KIS.

Regards
DL

 

[irosie91]

Thanks for this.

When you follow the links I gave you, google to the Vatican's painting of creation painted by Michelangelo. Note the background God sits in and see that it looks exactly like the right hemisphere of your brain. That is where God resides. While at the Vatican, note that the largest sculpture they own is of the pineal gland that is said to activate our third eye. Jesus uses the term single eye.

Now apply that to these quotes.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I hope all this work does not discourage you.

Let me know what you think.

Regards
DL

The 1st time I read it, I was like..What??

And then I read it again, and let me know if I am right.

When the light of God touches our soul, a third eye opens up in our brain to the truth into the spiritual realm, lighting our spirit to see the miracle of Jesus, and it all makes sense, a whole new existence .
Where as when the eye is closed, so is our soul, and do stupid things using religion.


.

very hinduistic -------the pineal gland is not an eye

Correct. Think of it as the switch that opens your inner eye.

Or do you deny these quotes?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

what is there to deny? the lines are consistent with the poetic imagery used
in those days. It is ALL over the writings of those days

It is not poetry. It is methodology that the church will never talk about.

Regards
DL

what "method" and to what END?

 

[GreatestIam]

right----according to the writings in the NT------and the accepted catholic partyline ----the REASON that the Sanhedrin did not execute Jesus in approximately 30 AD was because they did not have the POWER to do so. The ALTERNATE explanation is that they WOULD have executed him but were afraid to do so
because he was so "popular"------so they "forced" Pilate to do it. James----
according to the Catholic church was executed in 62 AD ----"by the Sanhedrin"----
which had no power to engage in executions by then. (James---not Stephen) Your source---penny dear----does
not support your conclusions or the claims of the catholic church. Your source
makes the claim that the Sanhedrin was not permitted to engage in execution by
30 AD and the standard party line is the reason that Jesus was not murdered
by "the jews" is because he was so popular with the general public that the
evil jooos were AFRAID to do it. Make up your minds. In fact----what is
a far more realistic conclusion based on reality is that the Romans wanted
DA JOOOOS to do it------but even the roman shill sadducees refused because
Jesus was not guilty of a crime warranting execution according to Jewish law.
The only way Pilate could get rid of him was by DOING IT HIMSELF

The fascinating fact is that Jews don't give a sh!t about Jesus; just the behavior of his believers who won't leave us alone.

Which speaks to the intelligence of Jews compared to the less intelligent.

They are not idol worshipers while Christianity and Islam have become just that.

Jesus said to seek God but they will not and have settled for an idol.

Regards
DL

It's because educating your children is a Biblical Command.

If a man had to be ordered to educate his children then God sure screwed up when making that one.

Regards
DL

Ask the multitude who don't educate their children.

Men are trying but the school systems are against boys.

Philip Zimbardo: The demise of guys? | TED Talk | TED.com

If that one caught your ear then this longer one expands on how we are screwing our own next generation of men.

Philip Zimbardo - Yahoo Video Search Results

Regards
DL

 

[irosie91]

gnostic huh? they FORGOT to burn you up in the AUTO DE FE

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

I didn't know Constantine was canonized by anyone. His story, as far as I remember, comes to us from Eusebius and doesn't present the guy as very spiritual. His various dreams and visions, including the famous cross in the sky, fit in much better with contemporary pagan beliefs than with the teachings of the Christian churches.

the eastern Orthodox canonized Constantine-----the man whose

That is very interesting. There are, as I am sure you know, several key references to James as a member of the inner circle of disciples and as the leader of the Jerusalem followers after the death of Jesus. Are the scholars you mention denying the accuracy of these passages, or what?

The scholarly evaluation of James refers to the account of james in the NT---which
seems to state that he was judged by the "SANHEDRIN" to be executed by stoning, --------at a time when Christian scholars INSIST that the Sanhedrin had
been deprived of the right to execute ANYONE by the ruling romans. My reading
of the NT however------deficient though it might be is that what it really says
is that James was stoned by something like a lynch mob. I cannot name names
for you

Josephus said James was killed in Jerusalem . You may be thinking of Steven who was stoned at the feet of Paul. Yes and right again, Romans ruled Jews could not execute as of 30 AD according to the jewish library and John:


John 18:31New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

31 At this, Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves, and judge him according to your law.” The Jews answered him, “We do not have the right to execute anyone,”[a]

Rabban Simeon b. Gamaliel said: 'If so, they would have multiplied murderers in Israel.'" Instructive though this is, it is merely an academic discussion, the right of imposing capital punishment having been taken from the Sanhedrin by the Romans a century before, "40 years before the Destruction of the Temple" (Sanh. 41a; TJ, Sanh. 1:18a).

Capital Punishment | Jewish Virtual Library

right----according to the writings in the NT------and the accepted catholic partyline ----the REASON that the Sanhedrin did not execute Jesus in approximately 30 AD was because they did not have the POWER to do so. The ALTERNATE explanation is that they WOULD have executed him but were afraid to do so
because he was so "popular"------so they "forced" Pilate to do it. James----
according to the Catholic church was executed in 62 AD ----"by the Sanhedrin"----
which had no power to engage in executions by then. (James---not Stephen) Your source---penny dear----does
not support your conclusions or the claims of the catholic church. Your source
makes the claim that the Sanhedrin was not permitted to engage in execution by
30 AD and the standard party line is the reason that Jesus was not murdered
by "the jews" is because he was so popular with the general public that the
evil jooos were AFRAID to do it. Make up your minds. In fact----what is
a far more realistic conclusion based on reality is that the Romans wanted
DA JOOOOS to do it------but even the roman shill sadducees refused because
Jesus was not guilty of a crime warranting execution according to Jewish law.
The only way Pilate could get rid of him was by DOING IT HIMSELF

The fascinating fact is that Jews don't give a sh!t about Jesus; just the behavior of his believers who won't leave us alone.

It fascinates me even more that Christians seem to have a deep animosity
to Jesus which they PROJECT onto jews who, they claim were DESPERATE
to murder him out simple baseless HATRED----but somehow could not figure
out HOW to do it. Some how it had something to do with TAXES as if
Jesus was somehow responsible for TAXES

Dear irosie91 where Christians haven't fully forgiven and are still projecting
blame onto others, that is coming from inside them. They still need to finish the
entire process of cleansing and healing. In the Bible there is talk about a Second Death.
Whatever isn't killed in the first stage is killed in the second, like the dirty side of the storm.

So many of these religious advocates have gone through one phase of becoming aware
of faults and their causes, enough to get angry and start preaching something has to change.
But haven't finished the rest of the process to understand how much work is on their side of the fence.
Look up FOWLER'S stages of religious and spiritual development. Some people are stuck in a
phase of angry denial and projection, until they move forward to later phases of resolution and peace.

It comes across as very resentful, placing and projecting blame outside on easy targets.
You are right, that something is wrong with that picture.
But people are human and go through phases until we reach maturity.
These stages are some of those along the way, and unfortunately it causes war and violence.

 

[GreatestIam]

"not promoting the injustice of punishing the innocent."

God is promoting the punishing of the innocent when demanding a sacrifice of an innocent man.

Only the most foolish will think otherwise and ignore the precedent set by God.

Recognize that or go away.

Regards
DL

Hi DL GreatestIam
Let's start with this point and recognize two ways of seeing it
* either God is demanding it
* or the laws of cause and effect and consequence are causing it

For example:
If we pollute the river with lead, and it causes cancer in children,
is God demanding that the children die of cancer.
Or are the LAWS OF NATURE showing us we are abusing the environment
and this is going to backfire on us and injure the innocent?

You are like saying "GOD is in charge and demanding children die of cancer
to pay the price of the pollution caused by others"

I am saying if we don't solve the cause, then by natural laws, innocent victims suffer and die.

GreatestIam do you acknowledge the difference
in how you frame it as God demanding that something occur
vs.
I am saying because we allowed the problem to go on,
then the consequences of that is someone innocent had to die before we change the path we're on.

Are you okay with that difference GreatestIam
Thank you for an interesting thread
You and others are posting things that are very enriching
and helping me to understand why there is conflict in church history.

Very good, thanks!

We are speaking of God. Not nature.

There is no cause that would force God to choose to have his son sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin since he chose Jesus even before he allowed the first sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

can someone tell me who "the holy spirit" is?

The original and most of the trinity concepts were father, mother, son.

Christianity has worked hard to vilify women starting with changing the moral of the Eden story from the elevation of man that Jews had to the fall of man and blaming it all on women.

The Church also never speaks of the disciples that were women.

The Church took woman out of their Trinity and had to replace her with something so they chose Holy spirit.

They also took the male out of the Jewish view of Satan and if you google Michelangelo's Eden painting, you will see that the church made Satan a female.

Not too surprising then to see why Christianity is such a misogynous religion.

If I was a woman, I would be some pissed and you would never find me putting any coin in a Christian basket.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam
I agree that the Holy Spirit refers to the female component in God.
YES otherwise this is missing if this isn't being taught in context with the whole.
Very good!

As for Christianity, we the people the entire body of humanity are supposed to be collective
THE BRIDE or the church, embracing and embodying Jesus as Justice as Lord or the LAW.

The law is supposed to govern us and protect us as one body or "Bride of Christ"

So that is where the FEMALE is, WE the PEOPLE are the female role in the relationship.

 

[emilynghiem]

"not promoting the injustice of punishing the innocent."

God is promoting the punishing of the innocent when demanding a sacrifice of an innocent man.

Only the most foolish will think otherwise and ignore the precedent set by God.

Recognize that or go away.

Regards
DL

Hi DL GreatestIam
Let's start with this point and recognize two ways of seeing it
* either God is demanding it
* or the laws of cause and effect and consequence are causing it

For example:
If we pollute the river with lead, and it causes cancer in children,
is God demanding that the children die of cancer.
Or are the LAWS OF NATURE showing us we are abusing the environment
and this is going to backfire on us and injure the innocent?

You are like saying "GOD is in charge and demanding children die of cancer
to pay the price of the pollution caused by others"

I am saying if we don't solve the cause, then by natural laws, innocent victims suffer and die.

GreatestIam do you acknowledge the difference
in how you frame it as God demanding that something occur
vs.
I am saying because we allowed the problem to go on,
then the consequences of that is someone innocent had to die before we change the path we're on.

Are you okay with that difference GreatestIam
Thank you for an interesting thread
You and others are posting things that are very enriching
and helping me to understand why there is conflict in church history.

Very good, thanks!

We are speaking of God. Not nature.

There is no cause that would force God to choose to have his son sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin since he chose Jesus even before he allowed the first sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Regards
DL

GreatestIam
Isn't the same God creator of Man and God as the source of Life and Nature the same?

What do you call the ultimate source of all things in life and the universe.
On that level aren't these almost synonymous
Life Nature Creation Universe God Creator etc.

Source of all laws and all life. Can't Nature be substituted for God and
we are still talking about the universal laws and universal truth that exists in life?

 

[GreatestIam]

The 1st time I read it, I was like..What??

And then I read it again, and let me know if I am right.

When the light of God touches our soul, a third eye opens up in our brain to the truth into the spiritual realm, lighting our spirit to see the miracle of Jesus, and it all makes sense, a whole new existence .
Where as when the eye is closed, so is our soul, and do stupid things using religion.


.

very hinduistic -------the pineal gland is not an eye

Correct. Think of it as the switch that opens your inner eye.

Or do you deny these quotes?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

what is there to deny? the lines are consistent with the poetic imagery used
in those days. It is ALL over the writings of those days

It is not poetry. It is methodology that the church will never talk about.

Regards
DL

what "method" and to what END?

Apotheosis is the word I use but I do not agree completely with how that word is defined.

a·poth·e·o·sis
noun: apotheosis; plural noun: apotheoses
the highest point in the development of something; culmination or climax.
"his appearance as Hamlet was the apotheosis of his career"

• the elevation of someone to divine status; deification.

I do not use that last line in my description as there is nothing divine that has not been named so by a man or woman.

Apotheosis just shows you that your God is what the bible calls I am and I do mean that to be you you.

----------------

Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.

This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself God.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

 

[Eaglewings]

Tell me a bit about your faith, and do you feel that there is a higher power greater than yourself?

If one wishes to be greater than me, all they have to do is show how they are greater.

Jesus, the Jews and I all believe in a Divine Council and the supremacy of man over the Gods.

I am a Gnostic Christian, but our beliefs are not what Christianity says they are. We lost the God wars and they distorted our belief system. The lies have been known since the findings of our scriptures and myths at Nag Hammadi.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose revenue and people.

Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

I appreciate your honesty, and the links. I will read them.

I get what you are saying about religion , so many out there have used religion in a self righteous way or for their own
purposes and gain. They have turned people away from God as they feel if this is what a christian is ...forget it...

I understand where you are. Look at these jerks in politics trying to gain votes...pisses me off a lot..
This is not at all what a spiritual relationship with Jesus is..not at all.

Religion has been used since the beginning of time in wars, ect. to gain, money and power.
In our generation alone we will see the people using scripture for their own hatred, like Jerry Farwell saying 9/11 happened because of gays.. What a loser!

In 1992 Pat Robertson ( owner of the 700 club) started a christian ( name only) movement . He is a very political man who blinded so many with lies to sway them to vote a certain way . He uses his TV station to spread his agenda.
This movement opened the door to hatred of gays, drunks, well you know. Twisting the scriptures to fit their agenda.
So many are still blinded ...Hatred of satan runs out of their hearts, to gain money and power.

A personal relationship with Christ is nothing about that..It is called Personal because it is only between you and God.
The Holy spirit guiding your heart to love , we show others by our hearts, not with words of judgement . The bible is a guide to live by , not to hold it up in the air to judge others and make up their man made rules.
All you have to do is ask God to show you the truth and He will.


.

Thanks for this.

When you follow the links I gave you, google to the Vatican's painting of creation painted by Michelangelo. Note the background God sits in and see that it looks exactly like the right hemisphere of your brain. That is where God resides. While at the Vatican, note that the largest sculpture they own is of the pineal gland that is said to activate our third eye. Jesus uses the term single eye.

Now apply that to these quotes.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I hope all this work does not discourage you.

Let me know what you think.

Regards
DL

The 1st time I read it, I was like..What??

And then I read it again, and let me know if I am right.

When the light of God touches our soul, a third eye opens up in our brain to the truth into the spiritual realm, lighting our spirit to see the miracle of Jesus, and it all makes sense, a whole new existence .
Where as when the eye is closed, so is our soul, and do stupid things using religion.

BTW: it is true how the eyes are the gate to the inner soul.


.

Not quite.

You, by seeking God, are the one who is activating your pineal gland and it activate your third eye. That can be seen as bringing your right hemisphere more in tune with the left hemisphere and then enlightenment takes place. You end in using your whole mind instead of just the one side. Both side are always in use but the activation of the pineal gland intensifies, if I can use that term, your thinking.

Your God, is not some outside force. Note how Michelangelo showed him. He is just your higher self waiting for you.

Look up the Father Complex that Jung and Freud wrote about. That father and what we are calling God here is the same entity.

There is no other unless you want to fall into supernatural belief and as the quotes I gave you of Jesus' sayings indicate, there is no such supernatural entity.

This is more of an Eastern Jesus and not the Roman ass kisser that Constantine created.

Jesus asked. Have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?--- in scripture.

Most of us have.

Regards
DL

Ok I was seeing your point until you got to

He is just your higher self waiting for you. nah

I am an addiction counselor and have seen for years, if a person doesn't have a higher power..( for me God) and they put themselves as the higher power, or a door knob...They do not make it.
The addiction is also in the brain, into our unconscious once the brain has changed.
Keeping the conscious focused on recovery calms the obsession in time. It takes time because the dopamines are basically burnt out because of the drug use.
God grant me the serenity to except the things I can not change.. <<<<-----

 

[emilynghiem]

very hinduistic -------the pineal gland is not an eye

Correct. Think of it as the switch that opens your inner eye.

Or do you deny these quotes?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

what is there to deny? the lines are consistent with the poetic imagery used
in those days. It is ALL over the writings of those days

It is not poetry. It is methodology that the church will never talk about.

Regards
DL

what "method" and to what END?

Apotheosis is the word I use but I do not agree completely with how that word is defined.

a·poth·e·o·sis
noun: apotheosis; plural noun: apotheoses
the highest point in the development of something; culmination or climax.
"his appearance as Hamlet was the apotheosis of his career"

• the elevation of someone to divine status; deification.

I do not use that last line in my description as there is nothing divine that has not been named so by a man or woman.

Apotheosis just shows you that your God is what the bible calls I am and I do mean that to be you you.

----------------

Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.

This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself God.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

Okay GreatestIam
Now we are also talking about different things when we mean God/Gods.

How about Divine for when Adam and Eve are Divine, and people reawaken their Divine spirit.

What word do you want to use for the
Apotheosis the Eternal Being of God with no beginning and no end.
do you want to use YHWH for that.

What word do you want to use for when people say Jesus was Divine, we are Divine
co-creators, etc.

If we use "God" in these different contexts, it is going to get confusing.

People can be Divine but we cannot be the YHWH infinite level, not even collectively all humanity is going to equal that level.

What terms do you suggest for these levels instead of people using God for both
and meaning different things? Thanks DL!

 

[GreatestIam]

can someone tell me who "the holy spirit" is?

The original and most of the trinity concepts were father, mother, son.

Christianity has worked hard to vilify women starting with changing the moral of the Eden story from the elevation of man that Jews had to the fall of man and blaming it all on women.

The Church also never speaks of the disciples that were women.

The Church took woman out of their Trinity and had to replace her with something so they chose Holy spirit.

They also took the male out of the Jewish view of Satan and if you google Michelangelo's Eden painting, you will see that the church made Satan a female.

Not too surprising then to see why Christianity is such a misogynous religion.

If I was a woman, I would be some pissed and you would never find me putting any coin in a Christian basket.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam
I agree that the Holy Spirit refers to the female component in God.
YES otherwise this is missing if this isn't being taught in context with the whole.
Very good!

As for Christianity, we the people the entire body of humanity are supposed to be collective
THE BRIDE or the church, embracing and embodying Jesus as Justice as Lord or the LAW.

The law is supposed to govern us and protect us as one body or "Bride of Christ"

So that is where the FEMALE is, WE the PEOPLE are the female role in the relationship.

Strange that in this collective, only women are told to sit at the back of the bus, Church that is, shut up, and never think yourselves good enough to teach men anything.

Your church has made you a second class citizen. Enjoy.

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

If one wishes to be greater than me, all they have to do is show how they are greater.

Jesus, the Jews and I all believe in a Divine Council and the supremacy of man over the Gods.

I am a Gnostic Christian, but our beliefs are not what Christianity says they are. We lost the God wars and they distorted our belief system. The lies have been known since the findings of our scriptures and myths at Nag Hammadi.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose revenue and people.

Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

I appreciate your honesty, and the links. I will read them.

I get what you are saying about religion , so many out there have used religion in a self righteous way or for their own
purposes and gain. They have turned people away from God as they feel if this is what a christian is ...forget it...

I understand where you are. Look at these jerks in politics trying to gain votes...pisses me off a lot..
This is not at all what a spiritual relationship with Jesus is..not at all.

Religion has been used since the beginning of time in wars, ect. to gain, money and power.
In our generation alone we will see the people using scripture for their own hatred, like Jerry Farwell saying 9/11 happened because of gays.. What a loser!

In 1992 Pat Robertson ( owner of the 700 club) started a christian ( name only) movement . He is a very political man who blinded so many with lies to sway them to vote a certain way . He uses his TV station to spread his agenda.
This movement opened the door to hatred of gays, drunks, well you know. Twisting the scriptures to fit their agenda.
So many are still blinded ...Hatred of satan runs out of their hearts, to gain money and power.

A personal relationship with Christ is nothing about that..It is called Personal because it is only between you and God.
The Holy spirit guiding your heart to love , we show others by our hearts, not with words of judgement . The bible is a guide to live by , not to hold it up in the air to judge others and make up their man made rules.
All you have to do is ask God to show you the truth and He will.


.

Thanks for this.

When you follow the links I gave you, google to the Vatican's painting of creation painted by Michelangelo. Note the background God sits in and see that it looks exactly like the right hemisphere of your brain. That is where God resides. While at the Vatican, note that the largest sculpture they own is of the pineal gland that is said to activate our third eye. Jesus uses the term single eye.

Now apply that to these quotes.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I hope all this work does not discourage you.

Let me know what you think.

Regards
DL

The 1st time I read it, I was like..What??

And then I read it again, and let me know if I am right.

When the light of God touches our soul, a third eye opens up in our brain to the truth into the spiritual realm, lighting our spirit to see the miracle of Jesus, and it all makes sense, a whole new existence .
Where as when the eye is closed, so is our soul, and do stupid things using religion.

BTW: it is true how the eyes are the gate to the inner soul.


.

Not quite.

You, by seeking God, are the one who is activating your pineal gland and it activate your third eye. That can be seen as bringing your right hemisphere more in tune with the left hemisphere and then enlightenment takes place. You end in using your whole mind instead of just the one side. Both side are always in use but the activation of the pineal gland intensifies, if I can use that term, your thinking.

Your God, is not some outside force. Note how Michelangelo showed him. He is just your higher self waiting for you.

Look up the Father Complex that Jung and Freud wrote about. That father and what we are calling God here is the same entity.

There is no other unless you want to fall into supernatural belief and as the quotes I gave you of Jesus' sayings indicate, there is no such supernatural entity.

This is more of an Eastern Jesus and not the Roman ass kisser that Constantine created.

Jesus asked. Have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?--- in scripture.

Most of us have.

Regards
DL

Ok I was seeing your point until you got to

He is just your higher self waiting for you. nah

I am an addiction counselor and have seen for years, if a person doesn't have a higher power..( for me God) and they put themselves as the higher power, or a door knob...They do not make it.
The addiction is also in the brain, into our unconscious once the brain has changed.
Keeping the conscious focused on recovery calms the obsession in time. It takes time because the dopamines are basically burnt out because of the drug use.
God grant me the serenity to except the things I can not change.. <<<<-----

Hi Eaglewings and GreatestIam
Isn't it both? Isn't the recognition of something greater than yourself
also calling you to grow to be the higher self or the highest we can be?

Maybe GreatestIam words it differently.

The only part I am having trouble with is the need to reject other people, at first sign of differences,
instead of finishing this process and lining up what we mean and where we are
(even though clearly we use terms differently).

I appreciate both of you spelling out what you mean, so I can see where that aligns.
The language will follow, and yes, some of it is so different, we can't get lost over the wording
or we'll never hear what each other is trying to say.

 

[GreatestIam]

"not promoting the injustice of punishing the innocent."

God is promoting the punishing of the innocent when demanding a sacrifice of an innocent man.

Only the most foolish will think otherwise and ignore the precedent set by God.

Recognize that or go away.

Regards
DL

Hi DL GreatestIam
Let's start with this point and recognize two ways of seeing it
* either God is demanding it
* or the laws of cause and effect and consequence are causing it

For example:
If we pollute the river with lead, and it causes cancer in children,
is God demanding that the children die of cancer.
Or are the LAWS OF NATURE showing us we are abusing the environment
and this is going to backfire on us and injure the innocent?

You are like saying "GOD is in charge and demanding children die of cancer
to pay the price of the pollution caused by others"

I am saying if we don't solve the cause, then by natural laws, innocent victims suffer and die.

GreatestIam do you acknowledge the difference
in how you frame it as God demanding that something occur
vs.
I am saying because we allowed the problem to go on,
then the consequences of that is someone innocent had to die before we change the path we're on.

Are you okay with that difference GreatestIam
Thank you for an interesting thread
You and others are posting things that are very enriching
and helping me to understand why there is conflict in church history.

Very good, thanks!

We are speaking of God. Not nature.

There is no cause that would force God to choose to have his son sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin since he chose Jesus even before he allowed the first sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Regards
DL

GreatestIam
Isn't the same God creator of Man and God as the source of Life and Nature the same?

What do you call the ultimate source of all things in life and the universe.
On that level aren't these almost synonymous
Life Nature Creation Universe God Creator etc.

Source of all laws and all life. Can't Nature be substituted for God and
we are still talking about the universal laws and universal truth that exists in life?

"Isn't the same God creator of Man and God as the source of Life and Nature the same?

Have a quick look and listen.



Do you think God to be prick enough to intentionally create those potential humans?

Nature has a definition that is not the same definition as God. Why would you want to call God nature or nature God?

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

can someone tell me who "the holy spirit" is?

The original and most of the trinity concepts were father, mother, son.

Christianity has worked hard to vilify women starting with changing the moral of the Eden story from the elevation of man that Jews had to the fall of man and blaming it all on women.

The Church also never speaks of the disciples that were women.

The Church took woman out of their Trinity and had to replace her with something so they chose Holy spirit.

They also took the male out of the Jewish view of Satan and if you google Michelangelo's Eden painting, you will see that the church made Satan a female.

Not too surprising then to see why Christianity is such a misogynous religion.

If I was a woman, I would be some pissed and you would never find me putting any coin in a Christian basket.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam
I agree that the Holy Spirit refers to the female component in God.
YES otherwise this is missing if this isn't being taught in context with the whole.
Very good!

As for Christianity, we the people the entire body of humanity are supposed to be collective
THE BRIDE or the church, embracing and embodying Jesus as Justice as Lord or the LAW.

The law is supposed to govern us and protect us as one body or "Bride of Christ"

So that is where the FEMALE is, WE the PEOPLE are the female role in the relationship.

Strange that in this collective, only women are told to sit at the back of the bus, Church that is, shut up, and never think yourselves good enough to teach men anything.

Your church has made you a second class citizen. Enjoy.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam In economics, in politics, in every system, even schools that are supposed to know better, people are conditioned to let BOYS speak out of turn while GIRLS should raise their hands.

This is either spiritual or social conditioning, whichever way you want to frame it,
all sectors of society see this manifested. Totally agree with you this is oppressive and immature!

I have posted 3 interpretations of the Adam and Eve story and this imbalanced conditioning:
A. spiritually the backlash against matriarchal cultures that led to the opposite karma
of patriarchies rising and dominating politically over both church and state
B. socially the growth of humanity away from an AUTHORITARIAN parental authority relationship
toward a more democratized stage of self-governance when society becomes more mature
C. economically the disproportionate value placed on men as meat gatherers (and the management class as controlling the stores) vs. women as crop gatherers and the manual workers in the fields.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org

Again the breaking of this cycle of abuse and oppression is the process
of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE that is what the True Meaning of Christ Jesus is SUPPOSED to BE.

This oppression out of political fear and control over authority is ANTICHRIST.
The liberation and restoration of Peace and Justice is what Jesus Christ is SUPPOSED to mean.

you are right, GreatestIam if churches keep teaching oppression, this is on the side of
ANTICHRIST. Very good, I agree with what you are saying even if we use opposite ways of saying it.