Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

[GreatestIam]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

GreatestIam
I think you are testing to see who can resolve this and how to explain it.

You are recognizing the injustice of punishing the innocent, agreed.
However the point is not to accept this as justice.
The point is to forgive the injustice, and pay the debt forward not backwards.

GreatestIam you make the common mistake and misperception
of "forgiveness" as "condoning and promoting wrongdoing"?
NO, we can forgive a debt and still ask it to be paid and corrected.
We can forgive that disease occurs, and still work to cure and prevent that disease.
FORGIVING injustice and accepting that it occurred in the past,
is NOT saying that injustice was right and should keep happening!

What Christianity teaches is that we can do a
BETTER job with correction and restitution if we
FORGIVE first, ie unconditionally as God's love is forgiving,
and then seek the corrections AFTERWARDS.

The point is STILL to right the wrongs so there is true justice,
but in Christianity this is done in the spirit of forgiveness and healing
so it mends and makes relations new again, restores good faith and good will.
by CORRECTING the wrongs and HEALING the causes of ill.

SEE Matthew 18:15-20
when we approach one another in the spirit of forgiveness inclusion and reconciliation in Christ
this is NOT to IGNORE and overlook the trespass or rebuke.
It is to deliver and conduct it in the SPIRIT of Restorative Justice
to RENEW good faith relations by CORRECTING the wrongs.

IN CHRIST ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW

That is not accepting injustice to let wrong go on.

Dear GreatestIam you miss the point entirely

It is to FORGIVE what has gone wrong, the worst injustices,
give them to God and follow God's will to right these wrongs.

Thus Justice is established in Christ Jesus.
And this brings peace. No justice, no peace.

Forgiving injustice opens the door for
God's will to correct these in Jesus name or for Justice sake.

Jesus is Justice for all, which brings heavenly peace to all humanity, or Salvation in Grace.

 

[Penelope]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

GreatestIam
I think you are testing to see who can resolve this and how to explain it.

You are recognizing the injustice of punishing the innocent, agreed.
However the point is not to accept this as justice.
The point is to forgive the injustice, and pay the debt forward not backwards.

GreatestIam you make the common mistake and misperception
of "forgiveness" as "condoning and promoting wrongdoing"?
NO, we can forgive a debt and still ask it to be paid and corrected.
We can forgive that disease occurs, and still work to cure and prevent that disease.
FORGIVING injustice and accepting that it occurred in the past,
is NOT saying that injustice was right and should keep happening!

What Christianity teaches is that we can do a
BETTER job with correction and restitution if we
FORGIVE first, ie unconditionally as God's love is forgiving,
and then seek the corrections AFTERWARDS.

The point is STILL to right the wrongs so there is true justice,
but in Christianity this is done in the spirit of forgiveness and healing
so it mends and makes relations new again, restores good faith and good will.
by CORRECTING the wrongs and HEALING the causes of ill.

SEE Matthew 18:15-20
when we approach one another in the spirit of forgiveness inclusion and reconciliation in Christ
this is NOT to IGNORE and overlook the trespass or rebuke.
It is to deliver and conduct it in the SPIRIT of Restorative Justice
to RENEW good faith relations by CORRECTING the wrongs.

IN CHRIST ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW

That is not accepting injustice to let wrong go on.

Dear GreatestIam you miss the point entirely

It is to FORGIVE what has gone wrong, the worst injustices,
give them to God and follow God's will to right these wrongs.

Thus Justice is established in Christ Jesus.
And this brings peace. No justice, no peace.

Forgiving injustice opens the door for
God's will to correct these in Jesus name or for Justice sake.

Jesus is Justice for all, which brings heavenly peace to all humanity, or Salvation in Grace.

No. Here is what justice looks like so stop trying to shed your responsibility and ride a scapegoat into heaven.


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

If you accept substitutionary atonement, Satan becomes quite happy as she has you for hell.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

GreatestIam
I think you are testing to see who can resolve this and how to explain it.

You are recognizing the injustice of punishing the innocent, agreed.
However the point is not to accept this as justice.
The point is to forgive the injustice, and pay the debt forward not backwards.

GreatestIam you make the common mistake and misperception
of "forgiveness" as "condoning and promoting wrongdoing"?
NO, we can forgive a debt and still ask it to be paid and corrected.
We can forgive that disease occurs, and still work to cure and prevent that disease.
FORGIVING injustice and accepting that it occurred in the past,
is NOT saying that injustice was right and should keep happening!

What Christianity teaches is that we can do a
BETTER job with correction and restitution if we
FORGIVE first, ie unconditionally as God's love is forgiving,
and then seek the corrections AFTERWARDS.

The point is STILL to right the wrongs so there is true justice,
but in Christianity this is done in the spirit of forgiveness and healing
so it mends and makes relations new again, restores good faith and good will.
by CORRECTING the wrongs and HEALING the causes of ill.

SEE Matthew 18:15-20
when we approach one another in the spirit of forgiveness inclusion and reconciliation in Christ
this is NOT to IGNORE and overlook the trespass or rebuke.
It is to deliver and conduct it in the SPIRIT of Restorative Justice
to RENEW good faith relations by CORRECTING the wrongs.

IN CHRIST ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW

That is not accepting injustice to let wrong go on.

Dear GreatestIam you miss the point entirely

It is to FORGIVE what has gone wrong, the worst injustices,
give them to God and follow God's will to right these wrongs.

Thus Justice is established in Christ Jesus.
And this brings peace. No justice, no peace.

Forgiving injustice opens the door for
God's will to correct these in Jesus name or for Justice sake.

Jesus is Justice for all, which brings heavenly peace to all humanity, or Salvation in Grace.

No. Here is what justice looks like so stop trying to shed your responsibility and ride a scapegoat into heaven.


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

If you accept substitutionary atonement, Satan becomes quite happy as she has you for hell.

Regards
DL

Hi DL GreatestIam
You are talking about the old ways of the past, trying to atone by the letter of the law or retribution.
YES this is part of human history, it is in the Bible for that reason,
but it is NOT our permanent future!

The old ways work about as well as thinking as long as I clean up the ashes after I smoke
I can keep smoking. Because I cleaned up the consequences of smoking, so I made up for it.

This doesn't stop the smoking from becoming an addiction which kills the lung cells and possibly the person.
It doesn't solve the root cause of WHY the chronic smoking and addiction occurs.
It builds and builds and so you see the future consequences of past actions,
the problems are repeated forward, just like you cite in these passages that affect future generaitons.

What breaks the cycle of retribution, and ends the generational problems, is
the forgiveness in Christ Jesus that transforms the process
into RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

So the cycle is broken. No more paying for the past with death, lives, war, suffering.
Instead the ROOT CAUSE of sin or suffering is healed.
So then the patterns and symptoms NO LONGER REPEAT.

Once the cause of addiction is removed,
there is no more smoking. So there are no more ashes to clean up,
no more cancer cells and coughing, all the other symptoms
of death and disease are thus ended when the cause of smoking addiction ends.

That is the difference between the old ways that lead to death and destruction,
and the new ways in Christ Jesus that lead to life and rebirth.

 

[Eaglewings]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

I keep it simple and try not to make it all complicated
( meaning the faith of the little child)

Jesus suffered and died so that you and I shall live . If we believe in Him like a child believes, the kingdom shall be yours.

He knew that He was sent to be the living sacrifice, He knew this was His purpose to enter the earth, and to leave it.
And He knew that a failing world needed direction in how to move through life even while in pain, and suffering.


Some religions freak people out and make it like you have to jump through hoops to be a christian.


.

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

GreatestIam
I think you are testing to see who can resolve this and how to explain it.

You are recognizing the injustice of punishing the innocent, agreed.
However the point is not to accept this as justice.
The point is to forgive the injustice, and pay the debt forward not backwards.

GreatestIam you make the common mistake and misperception
of "forgiveness" as "condoning and promoting wrongdoing"?
NO, we can forgive a debt and still ask it to be paid and corrected.
We can forgive that disease occurs, and still work to cure and prevent that disease.
FORGIVING injustice and accepting that it occurred in the past,
is NOT saying that injustice was right and should keep happening!

What Christianity teaches is that we can do a
BETTER job with correction and restitution if we
FORGIVE first, ie unconditionally as God's love is forgiving,
and then seek the corrections AFTERWARDS.

The point is STILL to right the wrongs so there is true justice,
but in Christianity this is done in the spirit of forgiveness and healing
so it mends and makes relations new again, restores good faith and good will.
by CORRECTING the wrongs and HEALING the causes of ill.

SEE Matthew 18:15-20
when we approach one another in the spirit of forgiveness inclusion and reconciliation in Christ
this is NOT to IGNORE and overlook the trespass or rebuke.
It is to deliver and conduct it in the SPIRIT of Restorative Justice
to RENEW good faith relations by CORRECTING the wrongs.

IN CHRIST ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW

That is not accepting injustice to let wrong go on.

Dear GreatestIam you miss the point entirely

It is to FORGIVE what has gone wrong, the worst injustices,
give them to God and follow God's will to right these wrongs.

Thus Justice is established in Christ Jesus.
And this brings peace. No justice, no peace.

Forgiving injustice opens the door for
God's will to correct these in Jesus name or for Justice sake.

Jesus is Justice for all, which brings heavenly peace to all humanity, or Salvation in Grace.

No. Here is what justice looks like so stop trying to shed your responsibility and ride a scapegoat into heaven.


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

If you accept substitutionary atonement, Satan becomes quite happy as she has you for hell.

Regards
DL

Hi DL GreatestIam
You are talking about the old ways of the past, trying to atone by the letter of the law or retribution.
YES this is part of human history, it is in the Bible for that reason,
but it is NOT our permanent future!

The old ways work about as well as thinking as long as I clean up the ashes after I smoke
I can keep smoking. Because I cleaned up the consequences of smoking, so I made up for it.

This doesn't stop the smoking from becoming an addiction which kills the lung cells and possibly the person.
It doesn't solve the root cause of WHY the chronic smoking and addiction occurs.
It builds and builds and so you see the future consequences of past actions,
the problems are repeated forward, just like you cite in these passages that affect future generaitons.

What breaks the cycle of retribution, and ends the generational problems, is
the forgiveness in Christ Jesus that transforms the process
into RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

So the cycle is broken. No more paying for the past with death, lives, war, suffering.
Instead the ROOT CAUSE of sin or suffering is healed.
So then the patterns and symptoms NO LONGER REPEAT.

Once the cause of addiction is removed,
there is no more smoking. So there are no more ashes to clean up,
no more cancer cells and coughing, all the other symptoms
of death and disease are thus ended when the cause of smoking addiction ends.

That is the difference between the old ways that lead to death and destruction,
and the new ways in Christ Jesus that lead to life and rebirth.

Pure garbage.

You are trying hard to hide your immorality.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

I keep it simple and try not to make it all complicated
( meaning the faith of the little child)

Jesus suffered and died so that you and I shall live . If we believe in Him like a child believes, the kingdom shall be yours.

He knew that He was sent to be the living sacrifice, He knew this was His purpose to enter the earth, and to leave it.
And He knew that a failing world needed direction in how to move through life even while in pain, and suffering.


Some religions freak people out and make it like you have to jump through hoops to be a christian.


.

No but you have to accept an immoral concept and the absurd notion that God can die.

Only an idiot God would turn around and die for those he condemned.

Regards
DL

 

[Penelope]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

No, he is our Savior due to he picked peace instead of war, I do not think he took my sins upon him, and I have never been taught that. I was taught we are responsible for our sins and need to confess them, and turn from them. I have heard many Protestants say Christ took our sins, that makes people very irresponsible in my opinion.
This is according to the RC teaching I had. You may of had different.

The doctrine is not taught in the Bible and is manifestly contrary to the nature of God, who is all goodness and who cannot punish the innocent, all-holy Son of God. This understanding of substitutionary atonement is not compatible with the Catholic faith. One can only say that Christ "took our punishment" in a poetic rather than in a literal sense.

An understanding of substitutionary atonement that is compatible with the Catholic faith is known as vicarious satisfaction. According to this view, Christ allowed himself to be killed by men (not by God) and by allowing himself to be killed he offered his life to God as a sacrifice of love. Because of the infinite merit of the sacrifice (due to his divinity), the Father accepted the sacrifice as making satisfaction for the sins of the world. Christ thus made satisfaction for us vicariously but was not "punished by God," who due to his omniscience cannot regard an infinitely holy Son as anything other than infinitely holy.

EWTN.com - The Divinity of Christ & Substitutionary Atonement

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

No, he is our Savior due to he picked peace instead of war, I do not think he took my sins upon him, and I have never been taught that. I was taught we are responsible for our sins and need to confess them, and turn from them. I have heard many Protestants say Christ took our sins, that makes people very irresponsible in my opinion.
This is according to the RC teaching I had. You may of had different.

The doctrine is not taught in the Bible and is manifestly contrary to the nature of God, who is all goodness and who cannot punish the innocent, all-holy Son of God. This understanding of substitutionary atonement is not compatible with the Catholic faith. One can only say that Christ "took our punishment" in a poetic rather than in a literal sense.

An understanding of substitutionary atonement that is compatible with the Catholic faith is known as vicarious satisfaction. According to this view, Christ allowed himself to be killed by men (not by God) and by allowing himself to be killed he offered his life to God as a sacrifice of love. Because of the infinite merit of the sacrifice (due to his divinity), the Father accepted the sacrifice as making satisfaction for the sins of the world. Christ thus made satisfaction for us vicariously but was not "punished by God," who due to his omniscience cannot regard an infinitely holy Son as anything other than infinitely holy.

EWTN.com - The Divinity of Christ & Substitutionary Atonement

So you do not need a savior but accept him as such anyway, while changing the term. Rather semantic and hypocritical as seen from here.

If God/Jesus is divine then he cannot die.

Jesus also offered nothing as he was chosen and had no choice and he confirms that in scriptures by saying he was doing his fathers will and not his own.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Without Jesus and his so called sacrifice. Catholics have no religion and no salvation which they say we need.

If you want to chat, do not lie or distort your dogma as you tried to do here.

Regards
DL

 

[Penelope]

THat is the Rc view. Take or leave it. The Jews had Jesus killed. I have quoted you from ewtn. I think they should know!

 

[Fishlore]

The long-standing consensus of scholars of all Christian denomination about the dates when the New Testament books were composed make it clear that Jesus was not a Christian He was a pious, radical Jew from Galilee who lived and died within the apocalyptic branch of Judaism. The neo-Platonic subtleties debated outside the Jerusalem community led by Jesus' brother, James, are a completely separate issue.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Dad killing his kid bestows eternal life on dead people.

I remember thinking that when I was a child - that I didn't want anything to do with a "father" who would do that to his "only begotten son". And then to learn that he wasn't even "begotten".

Bizarre superstition.
Its a


Bizarre superstition.
Its a truly bizarre superstition.

 

[Eaglewings]

[

No but you have to accept an immoral concept and the absurd notion that God can die.

Only an idiot God would turn around and die for those he condemned.

Regards
DL

No God can not die, but He had to come in the flesh and be in a body that could die.

This is the beauty of it, and when the light bulb turns on in your soul of what God really did for us is a goose bump moment.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son..

It does seem hard to relate to many things that you are questioning ( which is really good by the way )

When the Holy spirit becomes part of us, we begin to truly understand it all..
All you have to do is ask God into your heart and He will show you the truth, not all at once but in His time not ours...
right now it seems that you have much doubt , and we all do at times



.

 

[emilynghiem]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

RC's do not believe in Substitutionary Atonement.

Yes they do. That was drilled into me as a R C for many years.

Are you saying that they did not and do not believe that they need a savior?

Regards
DL

No, he is our Savior due to he picked peace instead of war, I do not think he took my sins upon him, and I have never been taught that. I was taught we are responsible for our sins and need to confess them, and turn from them. I have heard many Protestants say Christ took our sins, that makes people very irresponsible in my opinion.
This is according to the RC teaching I had. You may of had different.

The doctrine is not taught in the Bible and is manifestly contrary to the nature of God, who is all goodness and who cannot punish the innocent, all-holy Son of God. This understanding of substitutionary atonement is not compatible with the Catholic faith. One can only say that Christ "took our punishment" in a poetic rather than in a literal sense.

An understanding of substitutionary atonement that is compatible with the Catholic faith is known as vicarious satisfaction. According to this view, Christ allowed himself to be killed by men (not by God) and by allowing himself to be killed he offered his life to God as a sacrifice of love. Because of the infinite merit of the sacrifice (due to his divinity), the Father accepted the sacrifice as making satisfaction for the sins of the world. Christ thus made satisfaction for us vicariously but was not "punished by God," who due to his omniscience cannot regard an infinitely holy Son as anything other than infinitely holy.

EWTN.com - The Divinity of Christ & Substitutionary Atonement

So you do not need a savior but accept him as such anyway, while changing the term. Rather semantic and hypocritical as seen from here.

If God/Jesus is divine then he cannot die.

Jesus also offered nothing as he was chosen and had no choice and he confirms that in scriptures by saying he was doing his fathers will and not his own.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Without Jesus and his so called sacrifice. Catholics have no religion and no salvation which they say we need.

If you want to chat, do not lie or distort your dogma as you tried to do here.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam
1. Jesus means Salvation in spiritual terms, or Justice in secular terms.
Don't people need to receive forgiveness and healing in order to maintain PEACE.
Don't all people need to work together to establishment agreement on JUSTICE.

Saying we don't need Jesus is like saying we don't need to forgive in order to receive Peace and Justice.
I find people cannot fully forgive all things WITHOUT DIVINE HELP.

2. Jesus can follow God's will and accept that his life is for the purpose of divine sacrifice
to break the vicious cycle of retribution

Why are you saying it cannot be both? Both God's will and a sacrifice?

3. RE: hiding immorality
GreatestIam are you projecting onto me?
Are you hiding some fault on your side, but telling yourself I am hiding something?
Is that a form of hiding your own?

I have answered fully and transparently
If you see something "immoral" in what I say or how I explain it,
can you please point it out SPECIFICALLY so it is NOT HIDDEN.

I would like all faults to be addressed openly so they can be fixed.
GreatestIam if you see something contradictory, please point it out
SPECIFICALLY so I can correct it. What do you see wrong in what I said?

Thanks GreatestIam

 

[irosie91]

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards
DL

"greaest" your analysis of Christian theology is utterly idiotic-------this stuff
is WAY beyond you and what ever imam farted in your ears.

 

[irosie91]

THat is the Rc view. Take or leave it. The Jews had Jesus killed. I have quoted you from ewtn. I think they should know!

why would "they know"??? ----they rely on a book written and edited by a
tyrannical murderer who just happened to be an apologist for all things roman---
like "lion lunch for fun and amusement" and barbaric exploitation of conquered
people and enslavement there of. -----and crucifixtion. The NT is an excellent
source-------for people who can manage to accept the fact that it did not fall from
heaven and just WHO wrote it and why-------EXCELLENT

 

[irosie91]

Dad killing his kid bestows eternal life on dead people.

I remember thinking that when I was a child - that I didn't want anything to do with a "father" who would do that to his "only begotten son". And then to learn that he wasn't even "begotten".

Bizarre superstition.
Its a


Bizarre superstition.
Its a truly bizarre superstition.

Luddie----try to expand your mind------it is mystical poetry

 

[Penelope]

THat is the Rc view. Take or leave it. The Jews had Jesus killed. I have quoted you from ewtn. I think they should know!

why would "they know"??? ----they rely on a book written and edited by a
tyrannical murderer who just happened to be an apologist for all things roman---
like "lion lunch for fun and amusement" and barbaric exploitation of conquered
people and enslavement there of. -----and crucifixtion. The NT is an excellent
source-------for people who can manage to accept the fact that it did not fall from
heaven and just WHO wrote it and why-------EXCELLENT

Who is this tyrannical murderer??