What is cursed?Read Genesis 3. The bible uses the word "cursed" but the meaning is the same.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
What is cursed?Read Genesis 3. The bible uses the word "cursed" but the meaning is the same.
What is cursed?
Maybe you're going by a different definition. Because the idea that this is a fallen world is biblical. Plus it's something that we can plainly see with our own eyes. Obviously this is not a paradise anymore.
But don't get me wrong. I agree with you that this world is amazing, there is still beauty and wonder and good things... in addition to the bad stuff. And I also agree that just because mankind is fallible doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing great and good things.
So "fallen" doesn't mean that everything is terrible, it just means that ever since sin came into the world, the world changed, creation changed, and the way things are now is not the way it was in the very beginning.
I'm not asking foolish questions. I am trying to show that what you are assuming as fact is in reality an interpretation. I find it quite odd that people think God didn't know what would happen. That man's behavior is somehow a surprise. I don't believe it was which means the meaning of these passages must be something else.Read the bible! I'm sorry, I don't have time for this right now.
You are too smart to ask foolish questions like this.
Also, that article I pasted is filled with truckloads of scriptures.
I'm not asking foolish questions. I am trying to show that what you are assuming as fact is in reality an interpretation. I find it quite odd that people think God didn't know what would happen. That man's behavior is somehow a surprise. I don't believe it was which means the meaning of these passages must be something else.
I don't see how it could have been any other way. Life is effectively a test; a challenge; a purification. Good has no meaning in the absence of bad. We were always destined to have knowledge of good AND evil. It isn't virtuous unless one has a choice in choosing to be virtuous. It isn't a choice unless one can choose to do good or evil. Good comes from bad.No one said God didn't know what would happen.
I am in utter disbelief that you are actually arguing that we're not living in paradise.
You must be living on a different planet.
Do you not see disease, sickness, epidemics, birth defects, death, poverty, massive pollution, destruction of nature, animal extinction, natural disasters, and not just physical corruption but moral evils, government corruption, democide, and on and on and on?
If you think we're still living in paradise then I don't know what to tell you.... that is not living in reality.
I don't see how it could have been any other way. Life is effectively a test; a challenge; a purification. Good has no meaning in the absence of bad. We were always destined to have knowledge of good AND evil. It isn't virtuous unless one has a choice in choosing to be virtuous. It isn't a choice unless one can choose to do good or evil. Good comes from bad.
Doesn't "ding" consider himself a Christian? I got the impression that he was a "good" Catholic. Am I wrong?Read Genesis 3. The bible uses the word "cursed" but the meaning is the same.
And I don't want to be too hard on you, but ding.... just look at the nightly news. And in addition to the moral evils, look at disease, sickness, natural disasters, extinctions, and the ongoing destruction of nature and the physical world. This isn't rocket science.
Do you actually think this is paradise?
Doesn't "ding" consider himself a Christian? I got the impression that he was a "good" Catholic. Am I wrong?
I can't imagine a "Christian" actually arguing back and forth whether this is a fallen world. We have some bizarre people here who just love to quarrel over the obvious. "Christians" do it too.
There's actually several ways one can look at this. It could be a metaphor for how we all begin life being childlike or how the first society was pure of heart or it could be both. But in either case it is inevitable that the pure of heart eventually become corrupted (some more than others) to some degree. This is what it means to have knowledge of good and evil and it is inevitable.I have never claimed that it could have been another way. That was not my argument. I was simply saying that the way the world is now is NOT how it was in the very beginning, and according to the bible
Sin is anything which distances oneself from God. But the bigger sin is failing to take accountability for one's sin after they sin. No one is perfect. People are going to make mistakes. It's what we do after we make the mistakes that will determine whether or not we remain distanced from God. If everyone became accountable, the world would change overnight.it was sin that began to change everything
I can't imagine a "Christian" actually arguing back and forth whether this is a fallen world.
I have never claimed that it could have been another way.
Ok, but I don't expect the material world to ever be perfect, but I can exist perfectly. Existing perfectly does not mean to do perfect things. It means to BE perfect. To EXIST perfectly. To treat every act as a sacred act. To be thankful for the incredible gift we were given. To use our talents. To be thankful. To be reflective. To be forgiving. To show mercy. To be charitable. To have peace through the storm. To react to the complexities of life perfectly. The Bible is a how to book; how to live life and how not to live life. The kingdom of heaven is now.That's all I meant by "fallen world", this current world is not what it was in the beginning, and it is NOT the way it is going to be again one day when God restores that initial world of peace and harmony among all creation.
Sure, I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm suggesting that the world isn't the way it is because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I'm suggesting the world is the way it is because men fail to be accountable.Just because God allows something doesn't mean it's what God wants. God doesn't want us to just throw our hands up in the air and go, "God knew this was going to happen, so he must want it this way!"
Yes, God wants us to take accountability for our mistakes. We are free to choose between good and evil but we aren't free from experiencing the consequences of our choices. If I had to summarize what the bible teaches I could not state it more succinctly and clearly as saying that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.No, these things are consequences, not what God wanted.
Agreed. But is the world the way it is because Adam and Eve sinned? Or is it because man - in general - fails to take accountability for his choices?What God wants is love, mercy, treating others the way you would want to be treated, peace and non-violence, and for us (as stewards of this world) to take care of the innocent and vulnerable, not exploit them.
Do you believe that anything which is true is the word of God?Doesn't "ding" consider himself a Christian? I got the impression that he was a "good" Catholic. Am I wrong?
I can't imagine a "Christian" actually arguing back and forth whether this is a fallen world. We have some bizarre people here who just love to quarrel over the obvious. "Christians" do it too.
I've given it a great deal of thought and have been led by the Holy Spirit. Please tell me how it's wrong to believe man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he argues he didn't violate it? Because that's the thumbnail version of the fall of man; and that's what we see today in our "fallen" world.But also...I've begun to realize that a lot of Christians (of all types) haven't really given some of these topics much thought.
Agreed. But is the world the way it is because Adam and Eve sinned? Or is it because man - in general - fails to take accountability for his choices?
It seems like a cop out to blame Adam and Eve for the failure of mankind. It's a textbook example of transferring one's control to an external source.
There's actually several ways one can look at this. It could be a metaphor for how we all begin life being childlike or how the first society was pure of heart or it could be both. But in either case it is inevitable that the pure of heart eventually become corrupted (some more than others) to some degree. This is what it means to have knowledge of good and evil and it is inevitable.