Zone1 Justice vs Mercy

[Kruska]

Absolutely. Next time, try discussing the topic--i.e. leave out all "you's and yours" to keep the topic on justice and mercy instead of on the person starting the thread. Thanks in advance.

Nice try, however in contra to you, I was factually discussing YOUR topic - and answered it very clearly:

And to them, one can therefore commit any abhorred crime - since they have been taught to "believe" in Gods Mercy.
Which perfectly explains the "deeds" of Christians like Hitler, Stalin, etc. etc. etc.

Instead of acknowledging facts, or sticking to the topic aka "the Christian church having invented "absolution" (Gods Mercy) for crimes.
YOU, as usual come up with deflection and false statements (e.g. Hitler having been an atheist) and thus again reciting YOUR Bible stories and forwarding YOUR Christian religious propaganda, which indeed is totally off topic.

 

[Clyde 154]

Your thread is meaningless - aside from you propagating Christianity, as I had already given you the answer:

Your thread lacks any general meaning (aside from propagating Christianity) - since your "Justice/Mercy" issue, is solely confined to religious folks, who in general adhere and believe into this "soul redemption" issue.

And to them, one can therefore commit any abhorred crime - since they have been taught to "believe" in Gods Mercy.
Which perfectly explains the "deeds" of Christians like Hitler, Stalin, etc. etc. etc.

So what? all these people had been baptized and raised in the Catholic or resp. Christian belief. E.g. Stalin had even attended a priesthood seminar. And there is no proof at all that e.g. Hitler "had no belief in God". - that is solely YOUR personal false propaganda. Why would (supposed atheist) Hitler, have allowed for the Wehrmacht Buckle to state: "Gott mit Uns" (God is with us). Furthermore Hitler is best known for his resolute BELIEVE in Divine Providence.

Say's who? God, the Pope or just You?

As stated before - you simply open up a thread to propagate Christianity and it's belief.

As stated before - you simply open up a thread to propagate Christianity and it's belief.

BTW, the Catholic Church has even self-empowered their Pope, to absolve (aka granting absolution) for MURDER. And e.g. an excommunication (e.g. due to an abortion) can be absolved by a Bishop.

https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/01/15/sins-so-heinous-that-only-the

Details of some high-level Catholic tribunal and how it handles the most grievous sins have been revealed. In a very strange overview, we learn that murder and genocide, while truly horrible crimes, can be handled by lower members of the hierarchy. There are a few that only this tribunal and the Pope are qualified to cope with. They are briefly listed: trying to assassinate the Pope, a priest spilling the beans about what is said in the confessional, priests having sex, and abortionists becoming priest.

CNN — Pope Francis has extended indefinitely the power of Catholic priests to forgive abortions, making the announcement in an apostolic letter released Monday.

As such YOUR propagated Christianity is a work of total alteration and manipulation, conducted by all three desert religions - to justify their respective "worldly" objectives - whilst trying to keep their respective religion "attractive" to whatever Believers.

After all who would be interested in a religion that propagates e.g. the 10 Commandments (which basically no one adheres to) and thus having to face the consequences of purgatory and condemnation. Therefore ALL three desert religions opened/invented their respective Back-doors - aka God's Mercy right down to a Pope's, Bishops and Priests having been allocated the power of "Mercy".

ALL three desert religions have called and are still calling upon their believers to commit murder in the name of their respective God. And ALL three found ways to absolve their respective followers.

It's always the same with your kind of people - logically you folks are totally unable to defend your belief, (since it is a pure human invention) and thus constantly and stoically reciting your self-written Books contents. Just like a kid arguing in favor of his belief towards Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and showing depictions and texts in Kiddo books as being proof.

If you are a religious believer (aka belief in a God as such) is one issue - up to everyone himself
To defend religious indoctrination and manipulation by the respective religious institutions is a whole different story.

Over and out.

FYI: Hitler, Stalin.....etc., were not Christians, based upon the same Holy Bible you are attempting to defame. Simply because a claim.........humans never lie nor attempt to use other people based upon the things they believe THE PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR. Ever hear of the Democrat Party?

No one can pass gas without first attempting to manipulate the polling information. Democrats claim to be Liberal.........when in reality the Democrat Party is based upon the same left wing policies used by the NAZI Party........their polices mirror the NAZI party of the 1930s to a tee. Control the weapons, Control the Banks, Control education, attack capitalism under the pretense of helping the working folk, when in reality the working people are taxed to hell and back via the use of the IRS GESTAPO who demand up to 90% of earned wealth. When is the last time the democrat party stated they were going to lower taxes and support the US MILITARY? JFK.......who was killed by the communists for his policies.

 

[ding]

A recent homily was centered on The Justice We Deserve or The Mercy We Need.

Today the Catholic Church celebrates Divine Mercy. St. Maria Faustina noted God will not deny his mercy to anyone, and God's mercy will never be exhausted.

Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Höss was the commandant of the Auschwitz death camp, where over three million lost their lives. Höss was commented that he only killed about 2.5 million; the others died from sickness or starvation (under his watch).

Long story short: Before his death he had a change of heart about what he had done. He had been raised Catholic. He asked a Catholic priest to hear his confession and he was absolved of his sins. He received communion prior to his death. He had been sentenced to hang.

What say you in this case: Should justice outweigh mercy?

Both justice and mercy were achieved through the blood of Christ. It was the reconciliation of justice with mercy which defeated death.

 

[ding]

Nice try, however in contra to you, I was factually discussing YOUR topic - and answered it very clearly:

And to them, one can therefore commit any abhorred crime - since they have been taught to "believe" in Gods Mercy.
Which perfectly explains the "deeds" of Christians like Hitler, Stalin, etc. etc. etc.

Instead of acknowledging facts, or sticking to the topic aka "the Christian church having invented "absolution" (Gods Mercy) for crimes.
YOU, as usual come up with deflection and false statements (e.g. Hitler having been an atheist) and thus again reciting YOUR Bible stories and forwarding YOUR Christian religious propaganda, which indeed is totally off topic.

Other people believing falsehoods doesn’t make their falsehoods true or bind others to those falsehoods. Feel free to believe Christianity means you can behave anyway you want with impunity. Just don’t expect me to agree with your interpretation. Because I don’t. For starters it ought to be self evident that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. But most importantly the Bible is about how to live and how not to live. It’s not about what happens after death.

 

[Kruska]

FYI: Hitler, Stalin.....etc., were not Christians, based upon the same Holy Bible you are attempting to defame.

Don't talk nonsense and mistakenly believe that you can maintain any standard in a discussion with me about religion.

Hitler was baptized a Roman Catholic and was known to have been a committed Altar-Boy - aside from that he never got tired about telling everyone in regards to his absolute belief in Divine Providence. And he never renounced his Catholic Faith.

Stalin was raised in a very conservative Christian Orthodox home and baptized - thus even enrolling and participating in two priest seminars.

Mussolini and Franco - both Roman Catholics and baptized and never renounced their Catholic faith. Mussolini set about encouraging the Roman Catholic Church to accept a Fascist state, while promising to fulfill the Church’s requests. Upon Franco's fascist government having defeated the socialist party, he aligned himself with Spain's Catholic Church.

According to ALL Christian churches - once someone has been baptized he has "identified" himself with God.
Baptism doesn't save you—salvation comes by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Your guilt before God is removed the moment you trust in Christ. But baptism is your personal testimony to, and the inward assurance of, your passage from the old life to the new life...

As such any and "especially" a baptized person can right down to the minute before he dies - recant and/or simply reclaim his faith - thus gaining God's Mercy. And that is exactly as to why the Roman Church invented the concept of "God's Mercy" That any criminal and thus violator of the 10 Commandments, has the possibility to be redeemed for his sins by God. Otherwise no one would have accepted a religion that promises purgatory(Catholic Church) and hell (Bible) upon violating the 10 Commandments.

I have absolutely no need to "defame" the Desert Religions - since they have defamed themselves right on from the very beginning.
Therefore if you choose to "believe" it's your personal decision and issue - not mine. However I do expect a believer to know, understand and especially to FOLLOW his respective Religions Commands!! - and not just constantly violate them, whilst constantly and ignorantly citing the Bible and the NT texts.

As for the rest of your errant post: it's your personal opinion and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Three Irrefutable Reasons Why Joseph Smith Was a Fraud​

Home > Articles > Three Irrefutable Reasons Why Joseph Smith Was a Fraud

Three Irrefutable Reasons​

Why Joseph Smith Was a Fraud​

By Nathan Jones

What is the goal of a Christian cult? Cults expert James Bjornstad identified the goal as: “The goal of religious counterfeits is deception, presenting a likeness to the original while at the same time maintaining differences.”1 He added that these religious counterfeiters claim to be genuine Christians while at the same time repurposing yet redefining biblical doctrines involving God, Jesus, and salvation. In doing so, they take “great pains to mimic every detail in copying… doing everything possible to reduce the chances of detection and increase the chances of acceptance.”2
One of the most notorious and successful of these religious counterfeiters was Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844), founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), better known as the Mormons. With nearly eight million followers today, the LDS Church continues to grow at an exponential rate, even some 180 years after Smith’s death.
But, the cult of Mormonism stands precariously like a house of cards, easily collapsed by three simple arguments. These three arguments will be examined in the light of equipping Christians to help rescue the lost Mormon from their cultic beliefs and eventual eternal death in Hell.​

Reason 1: The Character of Joseph Smith​

The LDS Church made the following admission based on their founder’s own personal testimony of being a divinely appointed prophet of God:

Within this foundational LDS statement lies what cults expert Robert A. Morey calls Mormonism’s “Achilles’ heel,” stating that “the authority of the Mormon priesthood and the validity of their doctrines rest totally on Joseph Smith’s claim to be an inspired prophet of God.”4 It could then be argued that Mormonism either stands as a legitimate expression of Christianity or falls into being labeled as a cult based on Smith’s own claim of being a true prophet of God.
That means then that should Joseph Smith have ever pronounced any prophecy that turned out to be false or never having been fulfilled, he would end up violating Moses’ litmus test for determining whether a message had been truly spoken by the Lord or not. As the Scriptures reveal: “If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:21-22 NKJV).
Since the foundation of all LDS beliefs rests on the prophetic claims made by Mormonism’s founder, then Morey advises that Christians adopt the two-pronged apologetics strategy of listing Smith’s failed prophecies as well as highlighting his highly immoral character, and in doing so, will best sway those seduced by Mormonism into renouncing both Joseph Smith as a false prophet and Mormonism as a false expression of Christianity.5
In other words, remove Joseph Smith from the religious equation and what remains is a total reliance on Jesus Christ alone through faith alone. Mormonism’s own Articles of Faith admits to as much stating, “If his [Smith’s] claims to divine appointment be false, forming as they do the foundation of the Church… the superstructure cannot be stable.”6 The superstructure will now be shown to indeed be very unstable.​

Smith’s False Prophecies​

Cold Case Christianity author J. Warner Wallace provides just a few of the many failed prophecies made by Joseph Smith proving that he did indeed fail Moses’ test for discerning a true prophet of God.7
1. Joseph Smith made open-dated prophecies, such as when he predicted in 1835 that, “The coming of the Lord, which was nigh — even fifty-six years should wind up the scene” (History of the Church, Vol. 2, 182).
2. He made a number of self-fulfilling prophecies, such as when he claimed the Lord instructed him not to translate any more until he had arrived in Ohio. (D&C 37:1).
3. Smith made conditional prophecies, such as when he stated that if the people of Ohio repented they would not be severely judged by the Lord (D&C 40:16-18).
4. Smith even went as far as to make close-dated, unconditional prophecies, such as when in 1832 he prophesied that a LDS temple would be built in Independence, Missouri within his generation. Almost 200 years later and no Temple has ever been built, especially during Smith’s generation, forcing the LDS leadership to admit this prophecy has never come true. (D&C Section 84).
5. Smith also made a number of fanciful prophecies, such as when in 1837 he proclaimed that the Lord had told him that the moon was inhabited by men and women who looked like the people of earth and that they lived up to a 1,000 years old, stood nearly six feet tall, and dressed uniformly like Quakers.​

Smith’s Immoral Character​

The second of Morey’s two-pronged strategy for eroding the Mormon foundation rests on describing the many historically documented examples of Joseph Smith’s immoral character. His lifestyle of debauchery proves Smith was the polar opposite of a biblical man who lived in total faith in the Trinitarian God of the Bible and in holiness and obedience to sound biblical doctrine.
Joseph’s Smith’s own testimony demonstrates that the man was a serial liar. He claimed at the ripe age of 15 to have been visited by “two glorious personages surrounded with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noonday,” whom he identified as “the Father and the Son,” and they supposedly taught him to despise Christian creeds and denominations as abominations and to teach that the Bible had been corrupted and in need of restoration.8
Smith some three years later next claimed that an angel named Moroni directed him to find golden plates hidden in a hill called Cumorah near the village of Manchester, New York, along with the Jewish high priest’s Urim and Thummin stones by which he could look through and so translate the plates from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics into English.9 These plates, ironically enough, “happened” to reside right near his own home.
Once Smith had finished “translating” these golden plates, he then claimed that John the Baptist had appeared to him in order to ordain him into the Aaronic priesthood.10 In listening to and obeying the “serpent who deceived Eve” who was “masquerading as an angel of light,” Smith’s mind had been corrupted, and so he abandoned the simplicity that is in Christ, and having received a different spirit and Gospel, became a “false apostle and deceitful worker” (2 Corinthians 11:3-4,13-14 NKJV).
Once Joseph Smith officially founded Mormonism on April 6, 1830, and began amassing followers who had been disenfranchised with traditional Christianity, Smith as their leader began behaving more like a gang member than a man of God. When anyone spoke out against his false teachings, Smith would strike out with a vengeance. For example, in one historic account, Smith had hired two Mormons to kill a man who was outspoken against his teachings.11
In another historic account, Smith claimed he had a vision from God which told him that “the redemption of Zion must needs come by power,” and so formed an army of 200 men to march on Independence, Missouri, where he was summarily routed, and backtracking, then claimed that God had changed his mind about the attack.12 Smith’s army, called the Danites, was described as “a band of murderers whose vile misdeeds were later written in blood on the blackest pages of the history of Mormonism;” and because of their treasonous actions Missouri Governor Lilburn W. Boggs ordered a General Clark to treat the Mormons as enemies and that they “must be exterminated or driven from the state, if necessary, for the public good” for “their outrages are beyond description.”13 Porter Rockwell, chief of the Danites, was “a powerful man physically, with a mind of narrow perceptions, intense convictions, and utterly depraved motives,” known to “cut throats without compunction,” so much so that records from the time reveal that Rockwell was charged with close to one-hundred cold-blooded murders.14
Smith had also claimed “divine revelation” to justify his acts of polygamy. He amassed his own collection of some 33 known wives, maybe even more, with some as young as 14 years old.15 This lurid behavior led the town of Kirtland, Ohio to tar and feather Joseph Smith and his friend, Sidney Rigdon.16 Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, even went as far as blasphemously claiming, “Jesus Christ was a polygamist, Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus, were his plural wives, and Mary Magdalene was another.”17 Polygamy and pedophilia defined Smith’s behavior towards women and his contempt for God’s moral law.
Wherever Smith and his followers went they sowed discord and violence, even among themselves, eventually being forced out of Ohio, then Missouri, and finally settling in Illinois. Once there, Smith ordered his followers to burn down the Nauvoo Expositor newspaper for publishing the horrors of Mormon rule and practice.18 This act of arson led to Joseph Smith’s arrest. An angry mob stormed the jail where he was being held and shot Smith and his brother Hyrum in a gunfight. For all his supposed divine appointment, Smith died like the criminal that he was on June 27, 1844. And, for all his proclamations of being a divinely appointed prophet of God, Joseph Smith proved to be a lying, thieving, violent, sexually immoral miscreant who clearly did not live a life as the Apostle Paul preached, “worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God” (Colossians 1:10 NKJV).​

Reason 2: Witnesses for Joseph Smith​

While it is a simple task to prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet who lacked any godly moral character, if Smith alone had been the only one to have laid eyes on the golden plates, then the combination of these two faults should dissuade any Mormon from continuing to remain in the cult. Alas, Smith proved to be a highly devious individual who was keen enough to claim that three witnesses — Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer — could testify that the plates had indeed existed while Smith kept them out of sight during translation.19 Nobody else could have viewed the plates, for Smith conveniently announced that the angel Moroni had returned to recover the plates and deliver them up to Heaven.
These witnesses own wretched moral character makes their testimony completely dismissible. Both Whitmer and Cowdery were later charged by their fellow Mormons as thieves and counterfeiters, and Harris eventually admitted that he never had really laid eyes on the plates but instead gazed upon them through his “eyes of faith.”20 Once the supposed plates were translated and became the Book of Mormon, later revisions went so far as to declare eight witnesses, even if Smith himself had only claimed three witnesses.​

Reason 3: Mormon Scriptures​

Joseph Smith claimed that the golden plates the angel Moroni had led him to discover, along with the Urim and Thummin stones used to translate the Egyptian hieroglyphics inscribed on the golden plates, were the very words written by a man named Mormon who was a descendent of a Jewish exilic pilgrim to the New World named Lehi. Mormon supposedly wrote:

Smith and his “heavenly helper” Oliver Cowdery, a former school teacher, proceeded to “translate” the Book of Mormon and finally published it in March of 1830. Besides the fact that Smith’s origin story was outrageous in the extreme and the character named Lehi totally unsubstantiated by the Holy Bible, almost immediately after the Book of Mormon had been published charges of plagiarism had been leveled against Smith. He was accused of stealing his ideas from a novel written a few years earlier by a minister named Solomon Spaulding. Though the Spaulding manuscript was eventually recovered in the Library at Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio, and similarities found were insufficient to warrant the charge of plagiarism, cults expert James H. Snowdon studied both documents and notes that Joseph Smith had indeed taken large portions of Spaulding’s novel when concocting the Book of Mormon.22
Not only did Joseph Smith swipe Spaulding’s material in order to write his Book of Mormon, but he also copied verbatim portions of the Authorized Version of the Bible, known as the King James Version, literary style and all. One can find these entirely copied chapters taken from the King James: II Nephi 12 from Isaiah 2, II Nephi 13 from Isaiah 3, II Nephi 14 from Isaiah 4, II Nephi 16 from Isaiah 6, III Nephi 12-14 slightly altered from Matthew 5, and Moroni 10 from I Corinthians 12:1-11. Smith attempted to make his text to sound more biblical by imitating seventeenth-century King James English, even though Mormon supposedly left his message on golden plates hundreds of years before the King James translation had ever been commissioned.
Smith also added modern-day references to technologies that just did not exist in biblical times, such as the steel Laban used to make a sword (I Nephi 4:9) and a compass (Acts 28:13). Such a blatant forgery has led theologian Robert F. Boyd to conclude: “The Book of Mormon has utterly failed to make any valuable contribution to the cause of the true religion. It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the book is a cunningly devised fable.”23
Smith’s assertion that he needed translation stones in order to translate the Book of Mormon proved a crafty cover for the fact that he possessed no knowledge of either the Hebrew or Egyptian languages, though that lack of knowledge never stopped him from claiming this or that word were Hebrew words, leading one cults expert to comment, “Prophet Smith seems to have had a fancy for inventing learned etymologies which were for the most part utterly fictitious.”24
For example, when the Mormons had to resettle yet again, this time in Illinois, Smith bought the little town of Commerce and renamed in Nauvoo, which he incorrectly indicated was the Hebrew word for “beautiful place.” Even the word “Mormon,” Smith asserted, derived from the Egyptian word “mon” for “good,” added to the English word “more,” together became “Mormon,” or “more good” (though in the Greek “Mormon” is actually the word for “baboon”!).25
Besides the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith would later go on to pen the books The Pearl of Great Price and Doctrines and Covenants (D&C), as well as releasing his own version of the Bible because as the Mormon “Articles of Faith” claims, “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly,” thereby supposedly restoring the “real gospel” of Jesus Christ. Smith also ran across an original Egyptian papyrus which he “translated” into the supposedly lost Book of Abraham. Reputable Egyptologists much later in 1967 properly translated the rediscovered papyrus and exposed both Smith’s translation as a fabrication and claim to be able to read ancient Egyptian as a total fraud.26
Long after Joseph Smith had died and others took up his leadership mantle, such as Brigham Young, the leading apostles of the LDS Church continued to claim new revelations and make over 3,000 revisions to Joseph Smith’s writings. This shady behavior led famed theologian Walter Martin to exclaim in exasperation:

Martin went on to describe what has been “woven into the crazy quilt of Mormon theology are distinctive doctrines which have been introduced, taught, and afterward discarded and denied.”28 Such discarded doctrinal teachings from LDS leaders include the Adam-God doctrine which teaches that Adam returned to the earth to become the literal father of Jesus, and the Blood Atonement doctrine which makes the heretical claim that Jesus Christ’s blood only atoned for some sins so that a person needed to literally be executed in order to atone for the remainder of their sins.
Even the doctrine of eternal punishment espoused in the Book of Mormon has over subsequent revelations endorsed what cult historians have described as “a theology of nearly universal salvation.”29 If Mormons see the need to continue to rewrite or discard revelations supposedly revealed by the very mouth-piece of God, then they would be engaging in actual heresy against their own Mormon religion, not just traditional Christianity.​

Conclusion​

It takes little effort to disprove Joseph Smith’s claim to being a divinely called prophet of God. First, Smith fails Moses’ test of a true prophet due to his many failed prophecies, and his own ungodly and immoral character would cause even the most ardent hedonist to blush.
Second, the three witnesses to the quintessential event underlying all of the LDS religion — the translation of the golden plates into the Book of Mormon — were even denounced by their own fellow Mormons.
And, third, the Mormon scriptures have long been proven to be plagiarized frauds.
By these three arguments alone, the Mormon believer should begin to express serious doubts as to the truth of their religion. Any of these arguments should, as Bjornstad advises, stop the lost Mormon “from walking blindly down the steps leading away from God.”30
Failing in this, though, Christians may proceed with a plethora of other topics available that fairly easily disprove Smith’s claims. These topics include challenging that all Christians churches are abominations to God, or the need for a restored Old Testament priesthood, or the unsubstantiated claim that God is merely an exalted man, or that Jesus was begotten as the spirit brother of Lucifer, or that humans preexisted and will one day attain godhood over their own planets, or the unbiblical requirements of a works-based salvation, or even Mormonism’s near-universalistic teaching of an afterlife made up of three kingdoms of glory (celestial, terrestrial, telestial). By using any of these arguments against the validity of Mormonism as an authentic expression of Christianity, the religious counterfeit who is Joseph Smith is unmasked as the fraud that he was.
Evangelical Christians must remember, though, to reach out to Smith’s followers in love and armed with the sword of the Word and these arguments against Mormonism being a valid expression of Christianity. For, if they do not, souls will be lost to eternal separation from God in a place of torment.​

Jesus. Write a book, why doncha?

Nobody else could have viewed the plates, for Smith conveniently announced that the angel Moroni had returned to recover the plates and deliver them up to Heaven.​

Lol.
And that a dog had eaten his homework.

 

[Libby von H]

A recent homily was centered on The Justice We Deserve or The Mercy We Need.

Today the Catholic Church celebrates Divine Mercy. St. Maria Faustina noted God will not deny his mercy to anyone, and God's mercy will never be exhausted.

Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Höss was the commandant of the Auschwitz death camp, where over three million lost their lives. Höss was commented that he only killed about 2.5 million; the others died from sickness or starvation (under his watch).

Long story short: Before his death he had a change of heart about what he had done. He had been raised Catholic. He asked a Catholic priest to hear his confession and he was absolved of his sins. He received communion prior to his death. He had been sentenced to hang.

What say you in this case: Should justice outweigh mercy?

I say , you miss the entire point of Penance. If you can believe that God forgives but you don't believe that God rightly adminsters His Universe, then in what sense do you believe in a good God??? Myself, I don't want anyone in Hell. How that is done if it can or is done, is part of what makes God God.


In God , as Catholic theology shows, Justice and Mercy are the same things in God,. They are only different to us humans

 

[Libby von H]

Don't talk nonsense and mistakenly believe that you can maintain any standard in a discussion with me about religion.

Hitler was baptized a Roman Catholic and was known to have been a committed Altar-Boy - aside from that he never got tired about telling everyone in regards to his absolute belief in Divine Providence. And he never renounced his Catholic Faith.

Stalin was raised in a very conservative Christian Orthodox home and baptized - thus even enrolling and participating in two priest seminars.

Mussolini and Franco - both Roman Catholics and baptized and never renounced their Catholic faith. Mussolini set about encouraging the Roman Catholic Church to accept a Fascist state, while promising to fulfill the Church’s requests. Upon Franco's fascist government having defeated the socialist party, he aligned himself with Spain's Catholic Church.

According to ALL Christian churches - once someone has been baptized he has "identified" himself with God.
Baptism doesn't save you—salvation comes by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Your guilt before God is removed the moment you trust in Christ. But baptism is your personal testimony to, and the inward assurance of, your passage from the old life to the new life...

As such any and "especially" a baptized person can right down to the minute before he dies - recant and/or simply reclaim his faith - thus gaining God's Mercy. And that is exactly as to why the Roman Church invented the concept of "God's Mercy" That any criminal and thus violator of the 10 Commandments, has the possibility to be redeemed for his sins by God. Otherwise no one would have accepted a religion that promises purgatory(Catholic Church) and hell (Bible) upon violating the 10 Commandments.

I have absolutely no need to "defame" the Desert Religions - since they have defamed themselves right on from the very beginning.
Therefore if you choose to "believe" it's your personal decision and issue - not mine. However I do expect a believer to know, understand and especially to FOLLOW his respective Religions Commands!! - and not just constantly violate them, whilst constantly and ignorantly citing the Bible and the NT texts.

As for the rest of your errant post: it's your personal opinion and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You write very sloppily. You can repent up until death but that is not solely in your power, it is called the Grace of Final Perseverance and is one of the outstanding subjects of St Augustine. You can say the words and not mean them but God is not fooled. you would only make your punishment worse. YOU ARE AN IGNORANT FOOL FOR SURE



As Agustine said of the Two Thieves crucified with Jesus

'Do not despair; one of the thieves was saved. Do not presume; one of the thieves was damned.

 

[Meriweather]

I say , you miss the entire point of Penance. If you can believe that God forgives but you don't believe that God rightly adminsters His Universe, then in what sense do you believe in a good God??? Myself, I don't want anyone in Hell. How that is done if it can or is done, is part of what makes God God.

bold mine. Thread not about me.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Thread not about me.

View attachment 930011

 

[Meriweather]

View attachment 930011

No thanks.

 

[Grumblenuts]

It didn't work. Mea culpa. I need coffee!

 

[Meriweather]

It didn't work. Mea culpa. I need coffee!

Cream or sugar?

 

[Grumblenuts]

A little whole milk..

Ahh, that's better!

 

[Kruska]

....YOU ARE AN IGNORANT FOOL FOR SURE

No, but you definitely are - which is a logical conclusion, based on the fact of you adhering towards a self-written book and instituted/enforced nonsense and dogmas by the religious leaders/institutions of the Desert Religions.

Every single bit of your BELIEF is based on pure assumptions, self-written stuff, and thus whatever some religion told you to believe.

How would you or anyone else for that matter, know about what your invented GOD thinks??? or some St. Augustine writing his own thoughts and dribble in 400 AD. Did he get a letter or an e-mail from God? or one from those crucified thieves? - if so, please do share.

Just as if some Erik von Daniken would/will tell people what an Alien thinks.

As for Gods Mercy - it is the basic principle of the Christian belief - invented by the Roman Catholic Church.

Why don't you read and thus adhere to your own self-written Christian statements??

In the Bible, God’s mercy means His pity, compassion, and kindness toward people. His mercy shows up in the believer’s life at salvation, and then God continues to show mercy in forgiveness. Mercy triumphs over judgment but refusing God’s mercy is disastrous.

So Adolf tells him:
I swear to God, I fully believed in the evilness of Jews - just as Saint. !! Joan of Arc was self-inspired by God and Divine Providence and called to drive out the English. I did the same with the Jews and anyone else not being an Aryan - I even had to kill them to save Aryans and thus Christianity. Avenging your sons death (em evil Jews) was also a priority for me.

So is Adolf lying to God? - you can bet onto your life, that he is not.

And to put one on-top to God, he will further state:
Why did you never talk (contact me) telling me what I am doing is not okay.??

So spare me with your religious belief and your personal interpretations - whilst citing RCC NT texts and in parallel ignoring the RCC concept of God's BOUNDLESS mercy.

 

[Libby von H]

No, but you definitely are - which is a logical conclusion, based on the fact of you adhering towards a self-written book and instituted/enforced nonsense and dogmas by the religious leaders/institutions of the Desert Religions.

Every single bit of your BELIEF is based on pure assumptions, self-written stuff, and thus whatever some religion told you to believe.

How would you or anyone else for that matter, know about what your invented GOD thinks??? or some St. Augustine writing his own thoughts and dribble in 400 AD. Did he get a letter or an e-mail from God? or one from those crucified thieves? - if so, please do share.

Just as if some Erik von Daniken would/will tell people what an Alien thinks.

As for Gods Mercy - it is the basic principle of the Christian belief - invented by the Roman Catholic Church.

Why don't you read and thus adhere to your own self-written Christian statements??

In the Bible, God’s mercy means His pity, compassion, and kindness toward people. His mercy shows up in the believer’s life at salvation, and then God continues to show mercy in forgiveness. Mercy triumphs over judgment but refusing God’s mercy is disastrous.

So Adolf tells him:
I swear to God, I fully believed in the evilness of Jews - just as Saint. !! Joan of Arc was self-inspired by God and Divine Providence and called to drive out the English. I did the same with the Jews and anyone else not being an Aryan - I even had to kill them to save Aryans and thus Christianity. Avenging your sons death (em evil Jews) was also a priority for me.

So is Adolf lying to God? - you can bet onto your life, that he is not.

And to put one on-top to God, he will further state:
Why did you never talk (contact me) telling me what I am doing is not okay.??

So spare me with your religious belief and your personal interpretations - whilst citing RCC NT texts and in parallel ignoring the RCC concept of God's BOUNDLESS mercy.

IF boundless mercy were automatic mercy Jesus came here for nothing,

 

[onefour1]

No, but you definitely are - which is a logical conclusion, based on the fact of you adhering towards a self-written book and instituted/enforced nonsense and dogmas by the religious leaders/institutions of the Desert Religions.

Every single bit of your BELIEF is based on pure assumptions, self-written stuff, and thus whatever some religion told you to believe.

How would you or anyone else for that matter, know about what your invented GOD thinks??? or some St. Augustine writing his own thoughts and dribble in 400 AD. Did he get a letter or an e-mail from God? or one from those crucified thieves? - if so, please do share.

Just as if some Erik von Daniken would/will tell people what an Alien thinks.

As for Gods Mercy - it is the basic principle of the Christian belief - invented by the Roman Catholic Church.

Jesus and his teaching of Mercy came many years before the Catholic church came about. The teaching of mercy came about from the days of Adam and Eve.

 

[Libby von H]

Jesus and his teaching of Mercy came many years before the Catholic church came about. The teaching of mercy came about from the days of Adam and Eve.

Yes, the doctor will see you now.

 

[onefour1]

Yes, the doctor will see you now.

Moses 5:4-8
4 And Adam and Eve, his wife, called upon the name of the Lord, and they heard the voice of the Lord from the way toward the Garden of Eden, speaking unto them, and they saw him not; for they were shut out from his presence.

5 And he gave unto them commandments, that they should worship the Lord their God, and should offer the firstlings of their flocks, for an offering unto the Lord. And Adam was obedient unto the commandments of the Lord.

6 And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.

7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth.

8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.

 

[Kruska]

IF boundless mercy were automatic mercy Jesus came here for nothing,

Who told you that "boundless" is equivalent to "a general application towards total forgiveness"??

Even the Catholic Church used to tell it's prey - that even huge financial contributions to them are not a guarantee, but enhance a reduction of time spend in purgatory and/or hell. aka receiving God's MERCY.