Zone1 Is Your Body a Temple or a Graveyard?

[buttercup]

That's still free will. Free will doesn't mean doing everything right. It means choosing to do good or evil.

I can see you just like to argue. I should've known that, I've been on this site for years.

I have to go soon, i have something to do at 2, which is in 3 minutes. I'll try to get back to this later if i have time.

 

[ding]

I can see you just like to argue. I should've known that, I've been on this site for years.

I have to go soon, i have something to do at 2, which is in 3 minutes. I'll try to get back to this later if i have time.

No, I like discovering the truth.

 

[buttercup]

That's still free will. Free will doesn't mean doing everything right. It means choosing to do good or evil.

Yes, of course.

But does that negate what I said earlier about it being more than free will? I don't think so.

Let me ask you this. Think about this totally different scenario. Let's say that God created humans with free will, but in this scenario the first humans didn't get deceived by the enemy, and they didn't choose to distrust and disobey God. They just lived in a good relationship with God and never did wrong things. Yes, I know this sounds completely unrealistic, but for the sake of argument, in this scenario they had free will but didn't sin. And death, sickness, corruption of the earth and all the other bad stuff never happened.

If free will in and of itself causes death and evil...then it would happen every time. But what if it doesn't? What is the cause?

Maybe you should just believe what the bible said in the first place.

 

[ding]

But does that negate what I said earlier about it being more than free will? I don't think so.

How is it more than free will? Do you think there are forces of evil at work? Seems like man doesn't need any help in that category.

 

[ding]

Let me ask you this. Think about this totally different scenario. Let's say that God created humans with free will, but in this scenario the first humans didn't get deceived by the enemy, and they didn't choose to distrust and disobey God. They just lived in a good relationship with God and never did wrong things. Yes, I know this sounds completely unrealistic, but for the sake of argument, in this scenario they had free will but didn't sin. And death, sickness, corruption of the earth and all the other bad stuff never happened.

I'm having a hard time with sinning resulting in death and disease. That seems to be part of the natural order. I think there's another interpretation that would make God less dumb sounding. In fact, my understanding of the event you are describing is that it isn't sin that causes most of man's problems, it is man's failure to take accountability when he does sin. Think about it. What would the world look like if everyone everywhere started being accountable immediately after they sinned or made a mistake? That's what the account of Adam and Eve was about. It was when men started lying about what they did wrong that started all the problems.

So the first man blames someone else and then someone else blames someone else and on down the line. That's what it means when they say sin began with a single man.

 

[ding]

If free will in and of itself causes death and evil...then it would happen every time. But what if it doesn't? What is the cause?

I never said free will cause death and evil to enter this world. I don't believe it did. Death is a natural part of the life cycle. All living things will experience death. All living things were born to die. Which is why our time here can't be about material possessions and the carefree consumption of such. It must be about a spiritual growth.

You are the one arguing that death and suffering entering this world is a result of sin. I'm arguing it isn't. Unless of course you are talking about a spiritual death, which it may be. Which is why I asked you earlier what type of death you were talking about.

Maybe you should just believe what the bible said in the first place.

I think you should get off of your high horse before you fall. I've studied all of the major religions and even a few of the primal ones. So don't assume you know this subject better than me. I've spent a great deal of time studying and thinking deeply on these subjects.

 

[buttercup]

What job are we supposed to do?

We were given the job of taking care of the animals and the earth, as image-bearers of God. That means not according to our own will or our own selfish desires, but with selfless love, mercy, kindness, peace and a genuine care for the well-being and flourishing of those God entrusted to us. Just as God exercises His dominion over us.

Run on sentence, but you get the point.

 

[ding]

We were given the job of taking care of the animals and the earth, as image-bearers of God. That means not according to our own will or our own selfish desires, but with selfless love, mercy, kindness, peace and a genuine care for the well-being and flourishing of those God entrusted to us. Just as God exercises His dominion over us.

Run on sentence, but you get the point.

Sure, to be good stewards.

 

[buttercup]

I'm having a hard time with sinning resulting in death and disease. That seems to be part of the natural order.

Ok, well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I get what you're saying, but you do realize that that's the secular view, right? That's what the world teaches. I used to believe all of that, but now it doesn't make sense to me.... I mean, it would only make sense in a godless world.

I think there's another interpretation that would make God less dumb sounding. In fact, my understanding of the event you are describing is that it isn't sin that causes most of man's problems, it is man's failure to take accountability when he does sin. Think about it. What would the world look like if everyone everywhere started being accountable immediately after they sinned or made a mistake? That's what the account of Adam and Eve was about. It was when men started lying about what they did wrong that started all the problems.

So the first man blames someone else and then someone else blames someone else and on down the line. That's what it means when they say sin began with a single man.

Ok, here's an example of what I meant when I said you just like to argue.

On the other hand, I do agree with you that unrepented sin is the bigger problem. Because when people take accountability they eventually learn and change their course as opposed to repeating it like a dog returning to vomit. Ha.

 

[Stann]

A Catholic repents of the many lives he stole

Bodies are utilized in our visits here. One should respect it and not do it any intentional harm. Be thankful to your hosts.

 

[ding]

Ok, well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I get what you're saying, but you do realize that that's the secular view, right? That's what the world teaches. I used to believe all of that, but now it doesn't make sense to me.... I mean, it would only make sense in a godless world.

No, I don't realize that. The only way there can be genesis (in a material existence) is for there to be death. Why do you think God allows for the existence of disease, suffering and death? What possible purpose could that serve? These things exist, right? Do they only exist in a godless world? Or do they exist in the world God created?

 

[ding]

Ok, here's an example of what I meant when I said you just like to argue.

On the other hand, I do agree with you that unrepented sin is the bigger problem. Because when people take accountability they eventually learn and change their course as opposed to repeating it like a dog returning to vomit. Ha.

Not sure how that's an example of me wanting to argue. How else am I to communicate to you what I believe?

 

[surada]

Yes and my take on that is that was historical and not a command from God. The first humans probably were vegetarians. Why do I believe that? Because it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that God commanded humans to be vegetarians and then reversed himself.

If they were "Hunter-gatherers"... were they just hunting vegetables?

 

[BreezeWood]

Bodies are utilized in our visits here. One should respect it and not do it any intentional harm. Be thankful to your hosts.

really, is that you bring one with you ...

or your borrowing one for yourself.

 

[ding]

If they were "Hunter-gatherers"... were they just hunting vegetables?

Think before societies formed. I think it is likely that the first humans probably were vegetarian.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

What doesn't make sense is that God commanded humans to be vegetarians and then reversed himself

Jesus explains His Father's position on that when He talked about divorce.

You should know this stuff. But then you are a catholic

 

[ding]

Jesus explains His Father's position on that when He talked about divorce.

You should know this stuff. But then you are a catholic

Do tell. Let's hear your wisdom. Walk me through it.

 

[surada]

The greatest man who ever lived, John the Baptist, ate locusts

Locusts have always been eaten in the Middle East.