Zone1 Is there objective truth? Is there Objective evil and good?

[Leo123]

If truth is belief, then belief in something false would still be truth.

That is not the definition of truth.

Try again.

Belief creates truth because we cannot perceive objective truth. All we know is what we can sense.

 

[ding]

ding has talked about this before, maybe he can explain it better.

Without watching the video or reading any of the posts and only going by the title...

Objective truth is reality. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Eliminate bias and subjectivity is eliminated. It's hard to do when one has skin in the game but it is extremely powerful when one does. The downside is having to accept unpleasant truths about one's self and others.

Technically evil does not exist. What we call evil is the absence of good. Good is the extant attribute of reality. Good exists.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Germans considered him good doesnt make him good

To what moral authority do you make that claim?

 

[Hafar1014]

To what moral authority do you make that claim?

History
Yes, a significant portion of the German population supported Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime, especially by the late 1930s. However, this support was not universal and evolved over time, driven by a complex mix of factors including economic crisis, nationalism, and effective propaganda.

Factors Contributing to Support

• Economic Recovery: Hitler's large-scale public works programs (like the Autobahn) and military spending helped end the hardship of the Great Depression, which was widely popular among the German people.
• Nationalism and Resentment: Many Germans resented the punitive terms of the Treaty of Versailles following World War I. Hitler's promises to re-militarize Germany and restore the nation to a position of greatness appealed strongly to these nationalist sentiments.
• Anti-Communism: Fear of a communist takeover led many landowners, industrialists, and middle-class citizens to view the Nazis as the only viable right-wing alternative capable of maintaining law and order.
• Propaganda and Censorship: The Nazi regime, through the Ministry of Propaganda led by Joseph Goebbels, used all forms of media to present Hitler as a savior figure, promote national unity, and scapegoat Jews for Germany's problems. The regime also suppressed free speech and a free press, making open criticism dangerous.
  • Racial Ideology: Belief in the supremacy of the "German race" and antisemitism were central to Nazi ideology and found resonance with existing prejudices among some parts of the population.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

History
Yes, a significant portion of the German population supported Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime, especially by the late 1930s. However, this support was not universal and evolved over time, driven by a complex mix of factors including economic crisis, nationalism, and effective propaganda.

Factors Contributing to Support

• Economic Recovery: Hitler's large-scale public works programs (like the Autobahn) and military spending helped end the hardship of the Great Depression, which was widely popular among the German people.
• Nationalism and Resentment: Many Germans resented the punitive terms of the Treaty of Versailles following World War I. Hitler's promises to re-militarize Germany and restore the nation to a position of greatness appealed strongly to these nationalist sentiments.
• Anti-Communism: Fear of a communist takeover led many landowners, industrialists, and middle-class citizens to view the Nazis as the only viable right-wing alternative capable of maintaining law and order.
• Propaganda and Censorship:The Nazi regime, through the Ministry of Propaganda led by Joseph Goebbels, used all forms of media to present Hitler as a savior figure, promote national unity, and scapegoat Jews for Germany's problems. The regime also suppressed free speech and a free press, making open criticism dangerous.
  • Racial Ideology: Belief in the supremacy of the "German race" and antisemitism were central to Nazi ideology and found resonance with existing prejudices among some parts of the population.

History is not morality.

You said Hitler was not “good”. How can you make that claim if there’s no objective truth?

 

[Hafar1014]

History is not morality.

You said Hitler was not “good”. How can you make that claim if there’s no objective truth?

Your statement is in conflict with itself. We dont have to be taught Hitler was evil. Thats objective. There is no context that defends Hitler.
Your confounding two different questions. The German people supported him. I will recommend you read the Stanly Milgrim Experiment

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mr. Friscus]

We dont have to be taught Hitler was evil. Thats objective.

To what moral authority are you reciting to judge Hitler as “evil”?

There is no context that defends Hitler.

There is if you subscribe to moral relativism

 

[Hafar1014]

To what moral authority are you reciting to judge Hitler as “evil”?

There is if you subscribe to moral relativism

There is no moral relativism. There is moral context. Murder is immoral. Killing in self defense is moral. So we have killing the same act both moral and immoral

 

[Mr. Friscus]

There is no moral relativism.

So then there is objective truth?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Hafar1014 Where did you go? Care to answer for your claims?

 

[toobfreak]

Is there objective truth? Is there Objective evil and good?​

The short answer is that yes, there is absolutely objective truth. The truth is the truth, the truth is real, the truth is absolute, not just something you can mold to be whatever YOU want it to be.

And despite what the moron in the video thinks, irregardless of the overall outcome, even if something good eventually comes from it, it can never be a good thing killing 6 million people.

If the video idiot disagrees, then I hope someone rounds him up with a few million others and decides to put him in a gas chamber, just so long as the Perp himself believes it is for a good cause.

 

[task0778]

AI Summary:

Objective truth is defined as a truth that is universally valid, independent of individual beliefs or opinions. It corresponds with reality and can be verified through observation or empirical evidence. Unlike subjective truths, which are influenced by personal feelings or interpretations, objective truths remain constant regardless of personal perspectives.

So, objective truth exists and is reality.

Good and evil are always subjective, never objective. That's because both are based on personal feelings and beliefs or interpretations, which of course differ from person to person.

 

[cnm]

So you found one whack-job.

How nice for you.

This is the logical consequence of applying self selected labels, don't see what's whack job about it. It's just a semantic game Evangenitals choose to be fauxtraged about so they can worry about other people's private parts.

Her comments certainly apply here in Aotearoa where legislation enables New Zealanders to emend the gender on their birth certificates. In which case men can certainly be pregnant and have abortions.

“Self-identification on birth certificates was first introduced in 2018 in response to a petition and now in 2021, after a thorough parliamentary inquiry, New Zealanders will no longer require proof of medical treatment or need to persuade a court to have the sex on their birth certificate match the gender they know themselves to be.

“The changes will also support young people to make their own decisions about how they are identified on their birth certificates. It gives them agency over their identity, which will promote their mental health and sense of well-being.

And good on them, about time they shared the suffering...

Aimee Arrambide, the executive director of the abortion rights nonprofit Avow Texas, was asked by Rep. Dan Bishop, R-N.C., to define what "a woman is," to which she responded, "I believe that everyone can identify for themselves."

"Do you believe that men can become pregnant and have abortions?" Bishop asked.

"Yes," Arrambide replied.

 

[cnm]

So, objective truth exists and is reality.

I like Kant's, I think, definition: When knowledge agrees with its object.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

The short answer is that yes, there is absolutely objective truth. The truth is the truth, the truth is real, the truth is absolute, not just something you can mold to be whatever YOU want it to be.

And despite what the moron in the video thinks, irregardless of the overall outcome, even if something good eventually comes from it, it can never be a good thing killing 6 million people.

If the video idiot disagrees, then I hope someone rounds him up with a few million others and decides to put him in a gas chamber, just so long as the Perp himself believes it is for a good cause.

The problem is that once you denounce the Holocaust, you're submitting to a set of morals. All of this leads to the divide that morality is subjective, and there are cultures and people who are better at it and worse than it.

If you lived in a South american jungle tribe where it was normal to kill outsiders and eat their bodies... they don't think murder and cannibalism is evil. They need to be "taught" that by us western civilization folks.

This points to the importance of which set of morality you value and subscribe to. Our current society takes morals for granted, often rejecting Christianity despite it being the reason we have so many guard rails against horrible/evil behavior.

While I agree that gassing Jews is of the most evil acts someone could do, I subscribe to a Western philosophy and Christian ethics to make that claim.

 

[cnm]

Objective truth is defined as a truth that is universally valid, independent of individual beliefs or opinions. It corresponds with reality and can be verified through observation or empirical evidence. Unlike subjective truths, which are influenced by personal feelings or interpretations, objective truths remain constant regardless of personal perspectives.

So, objective truth exists and is reality.

Tell that to the Flat Earthers and the Chem Trailers.

 

[cnm]

All of this leads to the divide that morality is subjective, and there are cultures and people who are better at it and worse than it.

Of course morality is subjective. Morals are community norms. Valid morals are those norms which help a community survive and prosper. That morals are subjective is shown by the way they change with communities.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Of course morality is subjective. Morals are those community norms which help a community survive and prosper. Valid morals are seen by the existence and prosperity of the community. That morals are subjective is shown by the way they change with communities.

Wow, you typed a lot of words without saying much of anything.

So do you think Adolf Hitler was wrong for his actions against Jews? If so.. why?

 

[Crepitus]

I like Kant's, I think, definition: When knowledge agrees with its object.

I thought that was Aristotle?

 

[Crepitus]

Wow, you typed a lot of words without saying much of anything.

So do you think Adolf Hitler was wrong for his actions against Jews? If so.. why?

Of course he was. Because his actions were against most people's morals.

Certainly mine, probably yours and cnm as well.