Is the Chirren Learning

[Unkotare]

The 100 questions are easy. All high school graduates have learned the information, but just like YOU most people forget things they learned in school if they don't review them regularly.

 

[Unkotare]

But they have a lot of influence and pressure on school boards when it comes to hiring and firing teachers and administrators.

No.

 

[Unkotare]

...Inner cities are full of poor kids, minorities, illegals and kids who have no English language skills. ...

That's why we teach them English, show them respect, and try to provide what services we can. The real problem is that you can't just snap your fingers and "fix" society. That is an effort that spans generations and far exceeds anything a government can do.

 

[Unkotare]

40+ years working and doing commerce/business with product of the school systems is my experience.
Also raising 5 kids and working on the 14 grandkids also provide insight.
You are the one who doesn't know much about the public and the parents it would seem.
Your 'Dale Carnegie'* skills are near non-existent.
*

How to Win Friends and Influence People - Wikipedia​

Wow, you had a job and you had kids. You're an education expert!

 

[Unkotare]

But they have a lot of influence and pressure on school boards when it comes to hiring and firing teachers and administrators.

My brother is the president of our local school board. He doesn't hear shit from the unions about who districts choose to hire or fire.

 

[Stryder50]

Wow, you had a job and you had kids. You're an education expert!

More so than most "education professionals" I have dealt with.
Who produced the sub-standard product I've worked with and encountered.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The article, linked in earlier and your own posts is the source for this;
"The resulting analysis paints an intriguing picture of the state of American education. In top-ranked Massachusetts, over 40% of fourth graders demonstrated proficiency in math and reading, a level they largely maintained through eighth grade. The state’s students also nabbed the nation’s highest ACT and MCAT scores on average."
...
That quote is supplemented by the chart at the bottom of the article, and this is for what they report as the top 10 states.
The context and implication is that they are referring to what you present as Level 3, with the bulk of students not at that level, but lower.

As for your snark about Lynden schools, my children were into their adulthood and educated in another city before I moved to Lynden. It would be difficult for me to visit classrooms when I'm not a parent of student there, and not really needed.

For the past few years I've staffed the GOP booth at the NW WA Fair, held in Lynden in August. We have a large wheel for visitors to spin and depending on where the pointer is when the wheel stops, determines what question on civics we will ask (for them to earn a prize). Most of the teens and young adults, many of them from Lynden and nearby area, don't even know what the term "civics" is/means.
The questions we ask are from the standard citizenship test used by Immigration for persons applying to be citizens of the USA. Most of the 100 questions stump the students. Yet they are something that should be taught and known by the time one graduates from high school. But they aren't

Here's one link to the test which shows correct answer as you go;

2026 USA Citizenship Test Cheat Sheet. 99% Pass Rate. Practice Test No. 10

2026 US Citizenship Study Guide. Review all Citizenship Test Questions & Answers. Download and Print United States Citizenship Practice Test. 99% USCIS Pass Rate. Practice Test No. 10

citizenship-test.com

How do you know they were not taught, and yet failed to retain the information?

I used to teach math and social studies. In most of my districts, teachers were required to give year-long and sometimes quarterly exams. During the year my students would do fairly well, and I targeted my testing to achieve a C average. Most of the time, it usually was higher than that. However, when I asked them the exact same questions at the end of the year, the average fell to borderline failing because they did not retain the information. In math, that is particularly disturbing because it meant the students did not retain the information we would be building on in advanced courses. Students would do what called "pump and dump" on exams. Study the material hard to charge their brains, and then discharge it on the exam, never to be remembered longer than necessary to finish the test. They simply could not do that on final exams or taking standardized tests. All the review before exams was useless because of the limits to their ability to retain the volume of information required for those tests.

Let me ask you this: Can you repeat the formula for the quadratic equation? Can you draw me a squared function? How about a cubic function? Every algebra student should be able to answer those easily as they are all required to advance to Algebra II. If you can't, why did you not retain it? because your brain tells you I will never have to use this again, when that is not true. If you don't know now, that is likely the result of time, but students do not have that excuse.

 

[Stryder50]

My brother is the president of our local school board. He doesn't hear shit from the unions about who districts choose to hire or fire.

I know a few on my local board and the unions are a constant pain for them.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

More so than most "education professionals" I have dealt with.
Who produced the sub-standard product I've worked with and encountered.

So, you measure the product produced by the teacher by the performance of the student, correct? That is where you erred.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I know a few on my local board and the unions are a constant pain for them.

How are they pains? Most unions can't strike, so when the school board beats them, they meekly say, "Thank you sir! May I please have another!"

 

[Stryder50]

The 100 questions are easy. All high school graduates have learned the information, but just like YOU most people forget things they learned in school if they don't review them regularly.

Maybe for you, if you're being honest.
My experience with the public, including adults, was that most of the questions they couldn't answer.

 

[Stryder50]

So, you measure the product produced by the teacher by the performance of the student, correct? That is where you erred.

Applies to any product or service, the one who produces has control over the result.
GIGO
You erred in pedaling to CYA rather than be honest with self.

 

[Unkotare]

More so than most "education professionals" I have dealt with.
...

I'm sure you want to believe that. I just decided I want to be an expert in open heart surgery. Stop by for a procedure!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Maybe for you, if you're being honest.
My experience with the public, including adults, was that most of the questions they couldn't answer.

Why couldn't they answer? Do they use that information in their daily lives? No. Why bother retaining information you are never likely to use again?

 

[Stryder50]

How do you know they were not taught, and yet failed to retain the information?

I used to teach math and social studies. In most of my districts, teachers were required to give year-long and sometimes quarterly exams. During the year my students would do fairly well, and I targeted my testing to achieve a C average. Most of the time, it usually was higher than that. However, when I asked them the exact same questions at the end of the year, the average fell to borderline failing because they did not retain the information. In math, that is particularly disturbing because it meant the students did not retain the information we would be building on in advanced courses. Students would do what called "pump and dump" on exams. Study the material hard to charge their brains, and then discharge it on the exam, never to be remembered longer than necessary to finish the test. They simply could not do that on final exams or taking standardized tests. All the review before exams was useless because of the limits to their ability to retain the volume of information required for those tests.

Let me ask you this: Can you repeat the formula for the quadratic equation? Can you draw me a squared function? How about a cubic function? Every algebra student should be able to answer those easily as they are all required to advance to Algebra II. If you can't, why did you not retain it? because your brain tells you I will never have to use this again, when that is not true. If you don't know now, that is likely the result of time, but students do not have that excuse.

For the most part, somewhat correct.
I see one major purpose of education is to teach how to find correct information and know how to determine it is correct.

 

[Stryder50]

I'm sure you want to believe that. I just decided I want to be an expert in open heart surgery. Stop by for a procedure!

Yet many home-schooled do better than those in the public schools.

 

[SweetSue92]

I went to school in the 1940's and 1950's and teachers didn't care then if you 'learned' it or not. If you were failing they just let you fail. If you were a bright student, they doted on you. Same with gym teachers. The kids that were good at sports got all the attention, the rest of us were ignored.

We hit a good balance between giving to super achievers and under achievers in the 90s, I would say. Since then, the reverse is true: we spend many more resources and much more time on the kids who are disabled, etc. It's out of balance.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yet many home-schooled do better than those in the public schools.

Sure. But you realize homeschooled kids already have a leg up: they have parents invested in their education. Many public school kids do not.

 

[Stryder50]

Why couldn't they answer? Do they use that information in their daily lives? No. Why bother retaining information you are never likely to use again?

They do vote, so should have a clue if their vote is to have value.
We passed out a lot of pocket copies of the Constitution and tell the recipient here's your citizen's owner's manual.

 

[Unkotare]

Yet many home-schooled do better than those in the public schools.

Talk about selective admissions........