Is it possible that God changed Lucifer and angels in order to test mankind?

[K9Buck]

Is it possible that, in the end, God will destroy evil but will also transform Lucier and his angels back to loyal servants?

Lucifer and other angels rebelling against God seem inconsistent with the following verse.

I'm reminded of the Disney movie "Beauty and the Beast". In the end, the beast is "destroyed" and is transformed back into a handsome prince.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

 

[JGalt]

Is it possible that, in the end, God will destroy evil but will also transform Lucier and his angels back to loyal servants?

Lucifer and other angels rebelling against God seem inconsistent with the following verse.

I'm reminded of the Disney movie "Beauty and the Beast". In the end, the beast is "destroyed" and is transformed back into a handsome prince.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

The fallen angel Lucifer can't do anything God wouldn't allow him. Look at the book of Job: Satan is a liar and a murderer. There's nothing he'd like more than to kill every living being.

And yet, God allowed Satan to test Job, but God doesn't allow him to kill Job.

I used to believe at one time that the reason Satan revolted against heaven and took one-third of the angels with him, was because God lost control over him. That is not true, so obviously God had to allow that.

As for redemption of Satan and the one-third of those angels who followed him in the war against heaven, no. Absolutely not. Revelations 20:10 states that he will be thrown “into the lake of burning sulfur… [He] will be tormented day and night forever and ever”

Remember, angels are merely "messengers." They're not as loved by God as His own creation, which would be mankind. He created us in His own image, not the angels.

 

[K9Buck]

Thanks for your response, JGalt. However, if what you say is accurate, then it would seem that Matthew 7:18 is inaccurate. That's why I posited the possibility that Lucifer and "his" angels didn't turn to evil on their own account but, rather, were changed by God in order to help his creation to really experience evil in order to learn.

 

[K9Buck]

occupied Aren't you an atheist?

 

[occupied]

occupied Aren't you an atheist?

I am a former believer who cannot forgive God for the evil in the world. If I should ever stand before him in judgement he's going to have to explain the purpose of my mother's horrible cruel lingering death.

 

[JGalt]

Thanks for your response, JGalt. However, if what you say is accurate, then it would seem that Matthew 7:18 is inaccurate. That's why I posited the possibility that Lucifer and "his" angels didn't turn to evil on their own account but, rather, were changed by God in order to help his creation to really experience evil in order to learn.

That is true. Satan and one-third of the angels only revolted against heaven, because God appointed them to do that.

God's playing some serious infinite-dimensional chess that even I can't understand most of the time. And I understand a lot of stuff.

 

[JGalt]

occupied Aren't you an atheist?

I am a former believer who cannot forgive God for the evil in the world. If I should ever stand before him in judgement he's going to have to explain the purpose of my mother's horrible cruel lingering death.

When you were a former believer, what did you believe specifically?

 

[K9Buck]

Thanks for your response, JGalt. However, if what you say is accurate, then it would seem that Matthew 7:18 is inaccurate. That's why I posited the possibility that Lucifer and "his" angels didn't turn to evil on their own account but, rather, were changed by God in order to help his creation to really experience evil in order to learn.

That is true. Satan and one-third of the angels only revolted against heaven, because God appointed them to do that.

God's playing some serious infinite-dimensional chess that even I can't understand most of the time.

It seems to me that, for Mathew 7:18 to be true, then Lucifer and his angels were transformed by God in order to unleash evil into the world. Why would he do that? Perhaps he would do so in order for us to experience real evil in order for us to learn and develop.

Perhaps Satan and the demons are thrown into Hades while Lucifer and the once perfect angels are transformed back to their former selves.

 

[occupied]

occupied Aren't you an atheist?

I am a former believer who cannot forgive God for the evil in the world. If I should ever stand before him in judgement he's going to have to explain the purpose of my mother's horrible cruel lingering death.

When you were a former believer, what did you believe specifically?

I was raised an old time southern Baptist. We went to church every time the doors opened.

 

[Blackrook]

There's no way to know anything for sure.

 

[JGalt]

Thanks for your response, JGalt. However, if what you say is accurate, then it would seem that Matthew 7:18 is inaccurate. That's why I posited the possibility that Lucifer and "his" angels didn't turn to evil on their own account but, rather, were changed by God in order to help his creation to really experience evil in order to learn.

That is true. Satan and one-third of the angels only revolted against heaven, because God appointed them to do that.

God's playing some serious infinite-dimensional chess that even I can't understand most of the time.

It seems to me that, for Mathew 7:18 to be true, then Lucifer and his angels were transformed by God in order to unleash evil into the world. Why would he do that? Perhaps he would do so in order for us to experience real evil in order for us to learn and develop.

Perhaps Satan and the demons are thrown into Hades while Lucifer and the once perfect angels are transformed back to their former selves.

Not really sure. That goes back to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. That's where our sin of disobedience to God began. But the original sin which was pride, had to begin long before that. The original sin of pride was was Satan was guilty of.

I don't remember where I read or heard it, but those angels who leagued with Satan will not receive redemption. Salvation is only available to us, whom God created in his own image. And only given to us because Jesus was sacrified on the cross for our sins.

 

[JGalt]

occupied Aren't you an atheist?

I am a former believer who cannot forgive God for the evil in the world. If I should ever stand before him in judgement he's going to have to explain the purpose of my mother's horrible cruel lingering death.

When you were a former believer, what did you believe specifically?

I was raised an old time southern Baptist. We went to church every time the doors opened.

And how were you saved? How did you come to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior? How did that come about, how did you feel, how did it affect your life?

 

[K9Buck]

...those angels who leagued with Satan will not receive redemption

If so, then it would seem that Matthew 7:18 is inaccurate, correct?

 

[Blackrook]

The older I get the more I doubt everything I was ever taught. There's no proof for any of it. As a lawyer, I am required to prove everything I put in a brief. Why should religion be any different?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Is it possible that, in the end, God will destroy evil but will also transform Lucier and his angels back to loyal servants?

Lucifer and other angels rebelling against God seem inconsistent with the following verse.

I'm reminded of the Disney movie "Beauty and the Beast". In the end, the beast is "destroyed" and is transformed back into a handsome prince.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

May make a good novel, about it

 

[JGalt]

The older I get the more I doubt everything I was ever taught. There's no proof for any of it. As a lawyer, I am required to prove everything I put in a brief. Why should religion be any different?

It's called "faith." The the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Blackrook]

The older I get the more I doubt everything I was ever taught. There's no proof for any of it. As a lawyer, I am required to prove everything I put in a brief. Why should religion be any different?

It's called "faith." The the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I understand what faith is. I'm just not sure I have it anymore. Nothing that's ever happened in my life makes me think there's a God who loves me. I can believe in a God who doesn't care what happens to me, but it's hard to believe in a God who loves me.

 

[occupied]

occupied Aren't you an atheist?

I am a former believer who cannot forgive God for the evil in the world. If I should ever stand before him in judgement he's going to have to explain the purpose of my mother's horrible cruel lingering death.

When you were a former believer, what did you believe specifically?

I was raised an old time southern Baptist. We went to church every time the doors opened.

And how were you saved? How did you come to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior? How did that come about, how did you feel, how did it affect your life?

Went to church since birth, baptized in a lake, read the entire bible before I was twelve, never questioned anything until I got molested by a deacon, realized everyone knew about him and rebelled against church, remained a believer until everyone I loved started dying cruel deaths in return for their lifetimes of devotion. All of my immediate family is now dead and I am only in my mid fifties. Vast over-simplification of my spiritual journey but that's the highlights.

 

[K9Buck]

The older I get the more I doubt everything I was ever taught. There's no proof for any of it. As a lawyer, I am required to prove everything I put in a brief. Why should religion be any different?

I hear what you're saying but I guess some things aren't meant to be "proven" and require faith.

 

[K9Buck]

May make a good novel, about it

It's certainly an interesting concept and, I believe, a possibility based on Mathew 7:18.