Zone1 Is Hell painful? How can God allow eternal pain?

[ding]

She had a BODY
A soul Doesnt

I imagine being eternally separated from God is painful but not in a physical sense. Probably much worse.

 

[toobfreak]

She had a BODY
A soul Doesnt

Of course the soul has a body. Our "bodies" are far more than just the gross physical body you see. After that is the subtle physical body within which gives off our bioelectric energy, then the astral body within that which is where the soul resides. This is why conventional medicine so often fails to be able to identify or treat many of the things that ail us.

Pupsinger, you really need to confine yourself to talking about things you actually know about, which so far, isn't ANYTHING I've ever seen you bloviate about here on this forum.

Is it possible that you don't know shit about anything, which is why you talk so much?

 

[rightwinger]

Pupsinger, you really need to confine yourself to talking about things you actually know about, which so far, isn't ANYTHING I've ever seen you bloviate about here on this forum.

What do you KNOW about Heaven, Hell, Angels, demons, the existence of a soul?

You know what you believe
You know what your faith tells you.

But you know nothing more than I do

 

[toobfreak]

What do you KNOW about Heaven, Hell, Angels, demons, the existence of a soul?

I'd tell you, but you would never believe me. Suffice it to say that the topic is beyond the purview of this open forum.

Still, it's up to you now. I've told you the facts of life. Will it be casting more pearls before swine?

 

[1miseryindex]

Hell was designed for Satan and those fallen angels who follow him. It is temporary, and will be emptied after the 1,000 year reign of Christ here on earth. Those removed from hell will be on the court docket of the White Throne Judgement along with Satan and the fallen angels.

I have read the Bible in its entirety

This is NOT there!

But I thought you were Bible only?

 

[1miseryindex]

The notion of eternal torment in hell is a pagan one

HUGE LIE

Tell Jesus this!

Jesus said that if people do not care about one another, they end up in ETERNAL punishment

Mt 25:31-46

You either believe --accept, adhere to--all that Jesus said or you do not.

 

[TruthNotBS]

HUGE LIE

Tell Jesus this!

Jesus said that if people do not care about one another, they end up in ETERNAL punishment

Mt 25:31-46

You either believe --accept, adhere to--all that Jesus said or you do not.

Quote that passage or you have no argument. Jesus speaks of the destruction of the soul, not eternal torment. YHWH doesn't keep anyone in a state of excruciating suffering for all eternity, he annihilates them, and they no longer exist. There's no one left to suffer.

 

[1miseryindex]

Quote that passage or you have no argument. Jesus speaks of the destruction of the soul, not eternal torment.

NOT true (again)!

In Mt 25:31, which you can easily find on the net

Jesus uses the term

ETERNAL PUNISHMENT

(doesn't sound like a walk in the park in June to me)

 

[The Irish Ram]

I have read the Bible in its entirety

This is NOT there!

But I thought you were Bible only?

I've read it enough times to remember what is in it:

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison​

Revelation 20: 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.

Revelation 20:12 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

And this, dear heart, is what happens to those who belong to Christ:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[1miseryindex]

I've read it enough times to remember what is in it:

I've read the entire Bible, so why all the psgs?

And NOT ONE OF THEM answers to my post/issue

about how Hell is (according to you) "temporary"

How about this psg "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth forever and ever"

 

[1miseryindex]

Quote that passage or you have no argument.

Oh... hmmm...

I guess Christ's word does not stand on its own... but only when quoted on the internet?

That's new...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Quote that passage or you have no argument. Jesus speaks of the destruction of the soul, not eternal torment. YHWH doesn't keep anyone in a state of excruciating suffering for all eternity, he annihilates them, and they no longer exist. There's no one left to suffer.

Absolutely nowhere in the Bible does it say Jesus annihilates souls, good or bad, so they no longer exists. We are eternal beings. Satan is an eternal being and even he isn't annihilated, nor does he ever cease to exist:

Daniel 7:9-10… “I watched till thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, its wheels a burning fire; a fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:15 “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[1miseryindex]

I imagine being eternally separated from God is painful but not in a physical sense. Probably much worse.

At Fatima, Mary showed the children Hell

there was shrieking and obvious pain

I tell people about Hell because some ignorant folks think Hell will be more fun than "sitting on clouds withharps" and that kind of stereotype

 

[The Irish Ram]

I've read the entire Bible, so why all the psgs?

And NOT ONE OF THEM answers to my post/issue

about how Hell is (according to you) "temporary"

How about this psg "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth forever and ever"

You have no idea what you are talking about. The passage you quote here has nothing to do with Hell, and has everything to do with the second death, the Lake of Fire.

Rev.20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it,

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
^
Those who were being held in hell, were removed. Which means in plain English, that their stay there was temporary. Were they returned to hell after being judged at the White Throne Judgment? No. Because Hell was dispatched to the Lake of Fire. It's purpose was no longer necessary.

Rev.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. The second death.
^
Did hell resume holding new dead souls after it was emptied??? No. because death and Hell were removed to the Lake of Fire.

Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
^
Where? Where did they go? Back to hell forever and ever? There is no hell to return to. It was dispatched to the Lake of Fire. And the consequence of the Lake of Fire is:
the smoke of their torment ascendeth forever and ever.

 

[1miseryindex]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The passage you quote here has nothing to do with Hell, and has everything to do with the second death, the Lake of Fire.

Rev.20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
^
Those who were being held in hell, were removed. Which means in plain English, that their stay there was temporary. Were they returned to hell after being judged at the White Throne Judgment? No. Because Hell was dispatched to the Lake of Fire. It's purpose was no longer necessary.

Rev.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. The second death.
^
Did hell resume holding new dead souls after it was emptied??? No. because death and hell were removed to the Lake of Fire.

Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
^
Where? Where did they go? Back to hell forever and ever? There was no hell to return to. It was dispatched to the Lake of Fire. And the consequence of the Lake of Fire is:
the smoke of their torment ascendeth forever and ever.

Well, maybe we have different Bibles.

I like the ones that can be trusted like the Douay Rheims

I guess you're saying that the 2nd death ends all Hell?

NOT so

 

[The Irish Ram]

Well, maybe we have different Bibles.

I like the ones that can be trusted like the Douay Rheims

I guess you're saying that the 2nd death ends all Hell?

NOT so

That is exactly what the Bible tells us in Revelation. Death and Hell no longer exist after the White Throne Judgment. They are removed to the Lake of Fire, never to return:

Rev.20:14 And death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire.
^
lol. Is Hell going to escape from the Lake? Does Douay tell you how that happens? Scripture please...

As for the Bible you read, which one?
Douay was translated between the years 1582 and 1610 and revised by Bishop Richard Challoner from 1749-1752. If neither of them contain the passages I have referred you to, then pitch them and find one that does. Douay has left you bereft of understanding.

 

[TruthNotBS]

NOT true (again)!

In Mt 25:31, which you can easily find on the net

Jesus uses the term

ETERNAL PUNISHMENT

(doesn't sound like a walk in the park in June to me)

If you're not willing to fully quote your proof texts, forum apologetics isn't for you, find another hobby. There's nothing there that says anything about eternal, unending punishment and if it did, Jesus would be wrong because the Hebrew Bible states otherwise. Death is essentially nothing, the very opposite of life. YHWH recreates both the righteous and the wicked, and the wicked aren't tortured in your Christian pagan hell.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Absolutely nowhere in the Bible does it say Jesus annihilates souls, good or bad, so they no longer exists. We are eternal beings. Satan is an eternal being and even he isn't annihilated, nor does he ever cease to exist:

Daniel 7:9-10… “I watched till thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, its wheels a burning fire; a fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:15 “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

That's the primary lie of the devil. We're not inherently immortal, we are mortals. Daniel 7:9-10 doesn't help your case. The verses you cited from Revelations states that they will be tormented for an aeon, not for all eternity, "forever and ever". They will be tormented for a period of time. Otherwise, the book of Revelations would be wrong, because the Hebrew Bible clearly states that the dead know nothing. They're essentially asleep, until the day of resurrection/recreation.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Oh... hmmm...

I guess Christ's word does not stand on its own... but only when quoted on the internet?

That's new...

I won the argument, look:

Genesis 5:12

• Exodus 3:14
• Leviticus 19:18
• Numbers 6:24-26
• Deuteronomy 6:5
• Joshua 1:9
• Judges 16:28
• Ruth 1:16
• 1 Samuel 17:45
• 2 Samuel 22:33
• 1 Kings 3:12
• 2 Kings 2:9
• 1 Chronicles 16:11
• 2 Chronicles 7:14
• Ezra 10:11
• Nehemiah 8:10
• Esther 4:14
• Job 19:25
• Psalms 23:1
• Proverbs 3:5-6
• Ecclesiastes 12:13
• Song of Solomon 8:6
• Isaiah 40:31
• Jeremiah 29:11
• Lamentations 3:22-23
• Ezekiel 36:26
• Daniel 12:3
• Hosea 6:6
• Joel 2:28
• Amos 5:24
• Obadiah 1:15
• Jonah 2:9
• Micah 6:8
• Nahum 1:7
• Habakkuk 2:14
• Zephaniah 3:17
• Haggai 2:9
• Zechariah 4:6
• Malachi 3:10
• Matthew 5:14
• Mark 12:30
• Luke 6:31
• John 3:16
• Acts 2:38
• Romans 12:2
• 1 Corinthians 13:4
• 2 Corinthians 5:17
• Galatians 5:22-23
• Ephesians 2:8
• Philippians 4:13

WOW! Look at that! Open your Bible, start going through all of my "proof-texts" because I'm to darn lazy to quote the actual texts in my posts.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That's the primary lie of the devil. We're not inherently immortal, we are mortals. Daniel 7:9-10 doesn't help your case. The verses you cited from Revelations states that they will be tormented for an aeon, not for all eternity, "forever and ever". They will be tormented for a period of time. Otherwise, the book of Revelations would be wrong, because the Hebrew Bible clearly states that the dead know nothing. They're essentially asleep, until the day of resurrection/recreation.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Lake of Fire is anything but eternal:

it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

These will go away into eternal punishment

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

My wrath will go forth like fire
And burn with none to quench it,
Because of the evil of your deeds.”

‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

As far as our immortality:

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life”

So that we don't produce an understanding on a word in a verse, the main theme of the Bible is an eternity with God. It is covered and described everywhere throughout. Forever, for eternity, eternal life, crossed over from death to life, everlasting, immortal. imperishable. incorruptible, infinite, indefinitely...

If you are correct, and all of those examples mean an eon, then after an "age", God also dies, because He is also described as eternal and forever in the Bible.

The term you use is a science term we use here on earth. On earth we have linear time. God's watch is set on eternal time.
So answer this, if God made the angels eternal, would He not make His own children eternal also? Our life here is described as merely a vapor in God's time. Not even a second of eternal time would have past and we would been here and gone. What sense would that make from God's viewpoint?
We are made in the image of our Father. We are eternal beings.