Is anybody old enough to remember?

[ESay]

These Muslims?

So, who are they? Mostly Jewish or Muslims with some Jewish features remained?

Family.
They're mostly secluded, and rarely go down the mountains.
I think there're very clear political reasons not much is revealed in the open.

A lot has to do with the US,
and the Muslims among whom they live.

For example, Sarit Hadad (Hadadaev),
probably the most successful Israeli female singe, came from Dagistan.

Well, I can't say much about the Pashtuns. What I know is they are one of the major ethnic groups of Afghanistan and predominantly Muslims.

I dont know about their connection to Judaism. Something tells me, that it is overly exaggerated.

I can offer you some parallel. The Orthodox Christianity adopted a number of old pagan customs now disguised as Christian customs and holidays. Contemporary Christians follow them with pleasure, but that doesn't mean they are ready to give up Christianity and return to old beliefs.

I am not about equating Judaism with paganism of course, but I think you can understand what I meant.

 

[rylah]

These Muslims?

So, who are they? Mostly Jewish or Muslims with some Jewish features remained?

Family.
They're mostly secluded, and rarely go down the mountains.
I think there're very clear political reasons not much is revealed in the open.

A lot has to do with the US,
and the Muslims among whom they live.

For example, Sarit Hadad (Hadadaev),
probably the most successful Israeli female singe, came from Dagistan.

Well, I can't say much about the Pashtuns. What I know is they are one of the major ethnic groups of Afghanistan and predominantly Muslims.

I dont know about their connection to Judaism. Something tells me, that it is overly exaggerated.

I can offer you some parallel. The Orthodox Christianity adopted a number of old pagan customs now disguised as Christian customs and holidays. Contemporary Christians follow them with pleasure, but that doesn't mean they are ready to give up Christianity and return to old beliefs.

I am not about equating Judaism with paganism of course, but I think you can understand what I meant.

Pashtuns, Pathans - think Israelite, rather than Judean.

Among them tribes with norms clearly differing from Muslims, and can be traced to more ancient traditions than those adhered by Judeans in diaspora. Some norms are Judean,
others can only be explained by an earlier Israelite period, when there was no distinction.

Dietary, marriage, animal slaughter, even putting lamb's blood on the the door sides during the Eid festivals, suggesting an earlier form of Israelite traditions,
and no Muslims do that anywhere.

Many groups made these claims, as in replacement of Jews, they don't,
but again I don't go merely by what they say, but by customs.

I don't know about any other group with the same traditions,
anyone from whom they could've learned except Judeans,
and we don't have a record of any such contact,
indicating these passed only by tradition.

Meet the Pashtuns and a tradition of being Bani Israel

Interviewing Naqibullah Isaczai, who fled the Taliban for the USA and tells Arutz Sheva of education for terrorism, persecution, love for Israel and dreams of visiting the graves of 'our common ancestors' in the Jewish state.

www.israelnationalnews.com

And to bring it back to topic -who is old enough to remember the arrival of Mountain Jews during the pre-state years with their kinjal swords?

Arabs never dared cross their path, but unfortunately Stalin quickly closed the doors,
and most arrived only 40 years later, much more modernized.

This is essentially the same thing, only the mountain Jews arrived in Caucasus later
with the Judean diaspora, and weren't as secluded, but essentially very similar.

 

[Picaro]

Originally posted by toastman
Israel isn’t doing anything to the Palestinians . The Palestinians are the ones shooting themselves on the foot. Don’t like it? Stop attacking Israel.. wanna keep attacking Israel? Don’t whine when you suffer the wrath of the IDF

Now comes the most shocking revelation of the entire book.

The initial flow of refugees back to their villages, towns and cities in 1948 was 100% civilian, unarmed and peaceful and for the most part continued to be so for the next 7 years.

Israel's Border Wars​

The vast majority of the infiltrators during the second half of 1948, 1949, and 1950 came unarmed, which would suggest that their purpose was not political-terrorist. (PAG 51).

... during 1949-56. The evidence suggests that the vast majority were unarmed; the overwhelming majority had infiltrated for economic or social reasons. (Pag. 452)

COMMENT:

Where are the fedayeen, the intifadas, the suicide bombings, the rockets, where is all the Palestinian aggression that according to Coyote and FY436 gave origin to the present phase of the conflict and against which toastman and Hollie said Israel was retaliating?

Israel has NO reason to attack Palestinians other than to defend Israel from further attacks or to retaliate.

toastman

The 48 war had already ended.

There was no arab soldier invading Israel.

No ALA guerrilla fighter (Arab Liberation Army).

No Palestinian armed struggle yet...

Just a civilian, mainly peasant population, peaceful, urnarmed, who just wanted to resume their normal lives, tend their crops, raise their livestock...

Their return to their homeland was not accompanied by any aggression against Israel, their return to their villages was nothing Israel had to defend itself from...

The only "crime" they commited was not belonging to the "official" ethnicity of the supremacist state that had just been imposed on them by brute force.

Is censored really defending itself in 2020?

Correct.. Israeli Knesset is more than 12 or 15% Arab.. Long time Arab residents made peace with Israel and PROSPER in Israel.. Even aid the IDForces in critical roles as volunteers. Issue is NOT with the Arabs that chose to stay or return after hostilities. The issue is largely "Jordanian citizens" displaced by the 1967 war.. Who BTW are prospering much better than those Palis who later fled to Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and other neighbors.. THEY live a much more restricted and harsher life..

I thought the Druze units and that other sect I can't remember the name of were regular IDF. Learn something every day.

Ah, the others were small number of Circassians who defected from the Jordanian Army.

Sword Battalion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Sword Battalion was formed in the early summer of 1948 by incorporating a unit of Druze defectors from the Arab Liberation Army and small numbers of Bedouin and Circassians.[1] The unit was attached to the Oded Brigade and fought in Operation Hiram in October 1948. It has fought in every war since. Today, most members of the unit are Druze, but there are also Bedouins, Circassians and Christian and Muslim Arabs. The unit has produced several generals.

The Sword Battalion has a small elite Sayeret Special Forces branch.

Druze and Circassian men are subject to mandatory conscription to the IDF.[2] In the mid-1950s, the Druze leadership appealed to David Ben-Gurion, then Minister of Defense, to draft Druze men on the same basis as Jews. The State Defense Act of 1949, which called for drafting all individuals in the country, allowed the minister to issue exemptions for certain groups. The Druze asked that their exemption be canceled.[3] Originally, they served in the framework of a special unit. Since the 1980s, Druze soldiers have joined regular combat units, attaining high ranks and commendations for distinguished service. 83 percent of Druze boys serve in the army, according to IDF statistics.[4] According to the Israeli army, 369 Druze soldiers have been killed in combat operations since 1948.[5]Sword Battalion - Wikipedia

Druze in Israel and the Question of Compulsory Military Service

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Origins of Druze Political Loyalty

The Druze in Syria and Lebanon played a key role in the building of their respective countries and had an important part in the Arab struggles against French colonialism that began in the 1920s. Thus, they are part of the past glory, present reality, and future destiny of their countries, and never had nationalist aspirations to establish an independent Druze state. They preferred to be loyal to their respective countries and partners in developing its strength, security, prosperity, and power.


The situation of the Druze in Israel was different because they lacked organized institutions, an educated class, economic means, and an agreed-upon leadership. The Druze in Mandatory Palestine were primarily peasants, residents of mountaintop villages distant from the major cities and centers of decision-making. They played no central role in the struggle over Eretz Israel and remained outside of Arab and Muslim political activity during the period 1920-1940. There were attempts by a few to organize the affairs of the Druze in Mandatory Palestine and to improve their standing, but their efforts failed, especially due to struggles over leadership between the Tarif and Khyr clans.


As a result of these struggles, the Druze community was divided in the contest for Mandatory Palestine. Some were politically active in the Arab national movement and others joined the armed struggle, but the majority remained passive. Until 1948 most of the Druze villages were open to the Arab nationalist movement. However, the leaders of local Arab militias related to the Druze with scorn, acting with violence and extortion within their villages. Other Druze were kidnapped and murdered by Arab nationalists, sowing threats and fear. At a time when many Druze sought a solution to their plight, the Jewish leadership in the country, who realized what was occurring, capitalized on the anger in the Druze villages and began to develop relations with the Druze, primarily in Ussifiya, Daliat al-Carmel, and Shfaram. Thus, some Druze began to help and defend the Jews, while others continued to identify with the Arab nationalist leaders.

The key reason for the break in relations between the Druze and the Arab nationalists was the demand by the Muslim Wakf in 1942 to take over control of Jethro's Tomb, the holiest site of the Druze, located in Kfar Hittin west of Tiberias. This demand was supported by the Arab Higher Committee headed by Haj Amin el-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. The demand triggered waves of protest and anger and a protracted legal struggle. The issue united the heads of the Druze in Syria, Lebanon, and Mandatory Palestine, who petitioned Muslim and Arab leaders as well as British officials. Only in 1945 did the court decide that the site was to remain under Druze control.

It was the accumulation of all of these provocations toward the Druze that caused the break in their relations with the Arab nationalists, which only increased as the British and the Jews stood at the side of the Druze in their struggle for survival, honor, and security.

Yet another group the Nazi Mufti Hussien screwed over. The guy must have been a real dumbass.

 

[rylah]

Originally posted by toastman
Israel isn’t doing anything to the Palestinians . The Palestinians are the ones shooting themselves on the foot. Don’t like it? Stop attacking Israel.. wanna keep attacking Israel? Don’t whine when you suffer the wrath of the IDF

Now comes the most shocking revelation of the entire book.

The initial flow of refugees back to their villages, towns and cities in 1948 was 100% civilian, unarmed and peaceful and for the most part continued to be so for the next 7 years.

Israel's Border Wars​

The vast majority of the infiltrators during the second half of 1948, 1949, and 1950 came unarmed, which would suggest that their purpose was not political-terrorist. (PAG 51).

... during 1949-56. The evidence suggests that the vast majority were unarmed; the overwhelming majority had infiltrated for economic or social reasons. (Pag. 452)

COMMENT:

Where are the fedayeen, the intifadas, the suicide bombings, the rockets, where is all the Palestinian aggression that according to Coyote and FY436 gave origin to the present phase of the conflict and against which toastman and Hollie said Israel was retaliating?

Israel has NO reason to attack Palestinians other than to defend Israel from further attacks or to retaliate.

toastman

The 48 war had already ended.

There was no arab soldier invading Israel.

No ALA guerrilla fighter (Arab Liberation Army).

No Palestinian armed struggle yet...

Just a civilian, mainly peasant population, peaceful, urnarmed, who just wanted to resume their normal lives, tend their crops, raise their livestock...

Their return to their homeland was not accompanied by any aggression against Israel, their return to their villages was nothing Israel had to defend itself from...

The only "crime" they commited was not belonging to the "official" ethnicity of the supremacist state that had just been imposed on them by brute force.

Is censored really defending itself in 2020?

Correct.. Israeli Knesset is more than 12 or 15% Arab.. Long time Arab residents made peace with Israel and PROSPER in Israel.. Even aid the IDForces in critical roles as volunteers. Issue is NOT with the Arabs that chose to stay or return after hostilities. The issue is largely "Jordanian citizens" displaced by the 1967 war.. Who BTW are prospering much better than those Palis who later fled to Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and other neighbors.. THEY live a much more restricted and harsher life..

I thought the Druze units and that other sect I can't remember the name of were regular IDF. Learn something every day.

Ah, the others were small number of Circassians who defected from the Jordanian Army.

Sword Battalion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Sword Battalion was formed in the early summer of 1948 by incorporating a unit of Druze defectors from the Arab Liberation Army and small numbers of Bedouin and Circassians.[1] The unit was attached to the Oded Brigade and fought in Operation Hiram in October 1948. It has fought in every war since. Today, most members of the unit are Druze, but there are also Bedouins, Circassians and Christian and Muslim Arabs. The unit has produced several generals.

The Sword Battalion has a small elite Sayeret Special Forces branch.

Druze and Circassian men are subject to mandatory conscription to the IDF.[2] In the mid-1950s, the Druze leadership appealed to David Ben-Gurion, then Minister of Defense, to draft Druze men on the same basis as Jews. The State Defense Act of 1949, which called for drafting all individuals in the country, allowed the minister to issue exemptions for certain groups. The Druze asked that their exemption be canceled.[3] Originally, they served in the framework of a special unit. Since the 1980s, Druze soldiers have joined regular combat units, attaining high ranks and commendations for distinguished service. 83 percent of Druze boys serve in the army, according to IDF statistics.[4] According to the Israeli army, 369 Druze soldiers have been killed in combat operations since 1948.[5]Sword Battalion - Wikipedia

Druze in Israel and the Question of Compulsory Military Service

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Origins of Druze Political Loyalty

The Druze in Syria and Lebanon played a key role in the building of their respective countries and had an important part in the Arab struggles against French colonialism that began in the 1920s. Thus, they are part of the past glory, present reality, and future destiny of their countries, and never had nationalist aspirations to establish an independent Druze state. They preferred to be loyal to their respective countries and partners in developing its strength, security, prosperity, and power.


The situation of the Druze in Israel was different because they lacked organized institutions, an educated class, economic means, and an agreed-upon leadership. The Druze in Mandatory Palestine were primarily peasants, residents of mountaintop villages distant from the major cities and centers of decision-making. They played no central role in the struggle over Eretz Israel and remained outside of Arab and Muslim political activity during the period 1920-1940. There were attempts by a few to organize the affairs of the Druze in Mandatory Palestine and to improve their standing, but their efforts failed, especially due to struggles over leadership between the Tarif and Khyr clans.


As a result of these struggles, the Druze community was divided in the contest for Mandatory Palestine. Some were politically active in the Arab national movement and others joined the armed struggle, but the majority remained passive. Until 1948 most of the Druze villages were open to the Arab nationalist movement. However, the leaders of local Arab militias related to the Druze with scorn, acting with violence and extortion within their villages. Other Druze were kidnapped and murdered by Arab nationalists, sowing threats and fear. At a time when many Druze sought a solution to their plight, the Jewish leadership in the country, who realized what was occurring, capitalized on the anger in the Druze villages and began to develop relations with the Druze, primarily in Ussifiya, Daliat al-Carmel, and Shfaram. Thus, some Druze began to help and defend the Jews, while others continued to identify with the Arab nationalist leaders.

The key reason for the break in relations between the Druze and the Arab nationalists was the demand by the Muslim Wakf in 1942 to take over control of Jethro's Tomb, the holiest site of the Druze, located in Kfar Hittin west of Tiberias. This demand was supported by the Arab Higher Committee headed by Haj Amin el-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. The demand triggered waves of protest and anger and a protracted legal struggle. The issue united the heads of the Druze in Syria, Lebanon, and Mandatory Palestine, who petitioned Muslim and Arab leaders as well as British officials. Only in 1945 did the court decide that the site was to remain under Druze control.

It was the accumulation of all of these provocations toward the Druze that caused the break in their relations with the Arab nationalists, which only increased as the British and the Jews stood at the side of the Druze in their struggle for survival, honor, and security.

Yet another group the Nazi Mufti Hussien screwed over. The guy must have been a real dumbass.

Whoever wrote that article knows nothing about the Druze,
or simply relying on the ignorant.

The Druze by definition,
are loyalists to whatever political rule,
it's a fundamental principle of their tradition.

 

[Picaro]

Whoever wrote that article knows nothing about the Druze,
or simply relying on the ignorant.

The Druze by definition,
are loyalists to whatever political rule,
it's a fundamental principle of their tradition.

You didn't read either article. Try reading the links rather than run around trying to pretend you know everything; you don't. You didn't even read what I cited.

 

[rylah]

Whoever wrote that article knows nothing about the Druze,
or simply relying on the ignorant.

The Druze by definition,
are loyalists to whatever political rule,
it's a fundamental principle of their tradition.

You didn't read either article. Try reading the links rather than run around trying to pretend you know everything; you don't. You didn't even read what I cited.

First the article says Druze have no national goals of their own,then it attempts to explain why they didn't follow Arab nationalism in Israel.

It just doesn't make sense.

The Arab factions were boldly dysfunctional and arrogant,
the Jewish faction clearly indicated ability to govern in virtue.

I don't claim to know everything,
but I know my Druze enough to understand that
the 2nd half of the article is typical western none sense.

 

[BothWings]

I'm waiting for JobB to deny that Islam warred across Europe and then state that all Muslims always lived in peace and harmony with each other and with everyone else.
The guys is completely full of shit but his Muslim girlfriend is probably sitting next to him.

Buddy, the Muslims and Christians made pointless wars for centuries trying to please their imaginary sky friend.

Maybe it's time to stop doing that. There are no invisible fairies in the sky.

Only the self proclaimed "chosen people of God".

 

[Indeependent]

I'm waiting for JobB to deny that Islam warred across Europe and then state that all Muslims always lived in peace and harmony with each other and with everyone else.
The guys is completely full of shit but his Muslim girlfriend is probably sitting next to him.

Buddy, the Muslims and Christians made pointless wars for centuries trying to please their imaginary sky friend.

Maybe it's time to stop doing that. There are no invisible fairies in the sky.

Only the self proclaimed "chosen people of God".

Get in line...

 

[BothWings]

Old enough to remember the post-1948 pro-Judaic nation-state set up by the British government for some wealthy wordly contributors to its foreign interest? The place where anyone else is an imposter or a terrorist no matter how long theyve been there? Sure, I remember.

 

[rylah]

Old enough to remember the post-1948 pro-Judaic nation-state set up by the British government for some wealthy wordly contributors to its foreign interest? The place where anyone else is an imposter or a terrorist no matter how long theyve been there? Sure, I remember.

How long does it take to live in a place,
until you finally learn how to pronounce its name?

 

[Indeependent]

Old enough to remember the post-1948 pro-Judaic nation-state set up by the British government for some wealthy wordly contributors to its foreign interest? The place where anyone else is an imposter or a terrorist no matter how long theyve been there? Sure, I remember.

Wealthier than the Oil Sheiks?!
Wealthier than the American Jew Hating Robber Barons?!

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

I am in my mid sixties, and my first introduction to Israel situation came from watching the events unfold before and during the six day war. The bellicose bully, Nassar, was boasting continually about pushing the Jews into the sea

All the talk those days was about pan Arabism. They felt powerful because of their increasing oil wealth and felt confident that with the full weight of the massive Arab world coming to bear, this time they would finally be able to make good on their promise to kill Jews until they hid behind rocks and trees.

There was no talk about people called Palestinian because there were none - Just Arabs united in a common culture of Jew hatred.

Having lived in a time before Palestians were invented gives me a good understanding on the nature and effects of relentless propaganda. How many others are old enough to remember a time before their invention?

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the way people do or do not succumb to the propaganda.

It may surprise you to know that Palestine has been both a geographical region at different times over millennia, and a State. The State of Palestine has been recognised by the UN from 2012.

Never thought. but for once I agree with Sunni Mann.

 

[flacaltenn]

I am in my mid sixties, and my first introduction to Israel situation came from watching the events unfold before and during the six day war. The bellicose bully, Nassar, was boasting continually about pushing the Jews into the sea

All the talk those days was about pan Arabism. They felt powerful because of their increasing oil wealth and felt confident that with the full weight of the massive Arab world coming to bear, this time they would finally be able to make good on their promise to kill Jews until they hid behind rocks and trees.

There was no talk about people called Palestinian because there were none - Just Arabs united in a common culture of Jew hatred.

Having lived in a time before Palestians were invented gives me a good understanding on the nature and effects of relentless propaganda. How many others are old enough to remember a time before their invention?

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the way people do or do not succumb to the propaganda.

It may surprise you to know that Palestine has been both a geographical region at different times over millennia, and a State. The State of Palestine has been recognised by the UN from 2012.

Never thought. but for once I agree with Sunni Mann.

They have "observer" status at the UN.. Which is kinda like a "pit pass" to being in the Indy 500.. What elected Palestinian entity APPOINTS their UN delegation? And when's the last time those "leaders" stood for election?? Not that elections have to be REQUIRED or FAIR for a membership in the UN.. LOL...

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I am in my mid sixties, and my first introduction to Israel situation came from watching the events unfold before and during the six day war. The bellicose bully, Nassar, was boasting continually about pushing the Jews into the sea

All the talk those days was about pan Arabism. They felt powerful because of their increasing oil wealth and felt confident that with the full weight of the massive Arab world coming to bear, this time they would finally be able to make good on their promise to kill Jews until they hid behind rocks and trees.

There was no talk about people called Palestinian because there were none - Just Arabs united in a common culture of Jew hatred.

Having lived in a time before Palestians were invented gives me a good understanding on the nature and effects of relentless propaganda. How many others are old enough to remember a time before their invention?

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the way people do or do not succumb to the propaganda.

It may surprise you to know that Palestine has been both a geographical region at different times over millennia, and a State. The State of Palestine has been recognised by the UN from 2012.

Never thought. but for once I agree with Sunni Mann.

Ah - an 8 year old "state"

Well, that certainly trumps a 3500 year old people, now, doesn't it?

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

I am in my mid sixties, and my first introduction to Israel situation came from watching the events unfold before and during the six day war. The bellicose bully, Nassar, was boasting continually about pushing the Jews into the sea

All the talk those days was about pan Arabism. They felt powerful because of their increasing oil wealth and felt confident that with the full weight of the massive Arab world coming to bear, this time they would finally be able to make good on their promise to kill Jews until they hid behind rocks and trees.

There was no talk about people called Palestinian because there were none - Just Arabs united in a common culture of Jew hatred.

Having lived in a time before Palestians were invented gives me a good understanding on the nature and effects of relentless propaganda. How many others are old enough to remember a time before their invention?

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the way people do or do not succumb to the propaganda.

It may surprise you to know that Palestine has been both a geographical region at different times over millennia, and a State. The State of Palestine has been recognised by the UN from 2012.

Never thought. but for once I agree with Sunni Mann.

They have "observer" status at the UN.. Which is kinda like a "pit pass" to being in the Indy 500.. What elected Palestinian entity APPOINTS their UN delegation? And when's the last time those "leaders" stood for election?? Not that elections have to be REQUIRED or FAIR for a membership in the UN.. LOL...

"Observer" status or not a State is a state. They could never be classed as fully independent with big brother Israel dictating when they breath. Hamas was elected freely with observers from the UN & EU. As you say not all states have free and fair elections Saudi, China, while Russia and Belarus have elections but no one ever gets to find out who really won them.

The point I was making though was to debunk the OP's assertion that Palestine didn't exist before Israel occupied and implying that there is no basis for it to exist now . Palestine has in the distant past covered an area that included parts of Jordan. The Palestinian people included Muslims, Jews
& Arabs and their capital was Jerusalem.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I am in my mid sixties, and my first introduction to Israel situation came from watching the events unfold before and during the six day war. The bellicose bully, Nassar, was boasting continually about pushing the Jews into the sea

All the talk those days was about pan Arabism. They felt powerful because of their increasing oil wealth and felt confident that with the full weight of the massive Arab world coming to bear, this time they would finally be able to make good on their promise to kill Jews until they hid behind rocks and trees.

There was no talk about people called Palestinian because there were none - Just Arabs united in a common culture of Jew hatred.

Having lived in a time before Palestians were invented gives me a good understanding on the nature and effects of relentless propaganda. How many others are old enough to remember a time before their invention?

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the way people do or do not succumb to the propaganda.

It may surprise you to know that Palestine has been both a geographical region at different times over millennia, and a State. The State of Palestine has been recognised by the UN from 2012.

Never thought. but for once I agree with Sunni Mann.

They have "observer" status at the UN.. Which is kinda like a "pit pass" to being in the Indy 500.. What elected Palestinian entity APPOINTS their UN delegation? And when's the last time those "leaders" stood for election?? Not that elections have to be REQUIRED or FAIR for a membership in the UN.. LOL...

"Observer" status or not a State is a state. They could never be classed as fully independent with big brother Israel dictating when they breath. Hamas was elected freely with observers from the UN & EU. As you say not all states have free and fair elections Saudi, China, while Russia and Belarus have elections but no one ever gets to find out who really won them.

The point I was making though was to debunk the OP's assertion that Palestine didn't exist before Israel occupied and implying that there is no basis for it to exist now . Palestine has in the distant past covered an area that included parts of Jordan. The Palestinian people included Muslims, Jews
& Arabs and their capital was Jerusalem.

You are a liar.

I never made the assertion that a land designation did not exist. Perhaps you are simply too stupid to understand the distinction between peoplehood and geopolitical designations, but a distinct people who self-identified as Palestinian did not exist before the 20th century.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

I am in my mid sixties, and my first introduction to Israel situation came from watching the events unfold before and during the six day war. The bellicose bully, Nassar, was boasting continually about pushing the Jews into the sea

All the talk those days was about pan Arabism. They felt powerful because of their increasing oil wealth and felt confident that with the full weight of the massive Arab world coming to bear, this time they would finally be able to make good on their promise to kill Jews until they hid behind rocks and trees.

There was no talk about people called Palestinian because there were none - Just Arabs united in a common culture of Jew hatred.

Having lived in a time before Palestians were invented gives me a good understanding on the nature and effects of relentless propaganda. How many others are old enough to remember a time before their invention?

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the way people do or do not succumb to the propaganda.

It may surprise you to know that Palestine has been both a geographical region at different times over millennia, and a State. The State of Palestine has been recognised by the UN from 2012.

Never thought. but for once I agree with Sunni Mann.

They have "observer" status at the UN.. Which is kinda like a "pit pass" to being in the Indy 500.. What elected Palestinian entity APPOINTS their UN delegation? And when's the last time those "leaders" stood for election?? Not that elections have to be REQUIRED or FAIR for a membership in the UN.. LOL...

"Observer" status or not a State is a state. They could never be classed as fully independent with big brother Israel dictating when they breath. Hamas was elected freely with observers from the UN & EU. As you say not all states have free and fair elections Saudi, China, while Russia and Belarus have elections but no one ever gets to find out who really won them.

The point I was making though was to debunk the OP's assertion that Palestine didn't exist before Israel occupied and implying that there is no basis for it to exist now . Palestine has in the distant past covered an area that included parts of Jordan. The Palestinian people included Muslims, Jews
& Arabs and their capital was Jerusalem.

You are a liar.

I never made the assertion that a land designation did not exist. Perhaps you are simply too stupid to understand the distinction between peoplehood and geopolitical designations, but a distinct people who self-identified as Palestinian did not exist before the 20th century.

Yes they most certainly did!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ Oz and the Orchestra, Dogmaphobe, flacaltenn, et al,

BLUF: I have seen this argument countless times in the past; with no real answer or understanding as to its true relevance.

Yes they most certainly did!

(COMMENT)

I have, at various times, gone back more than a thousand years in history. And I don't see where → prior to the late 19th Century and 20th Century → that the inhabitants of the undefined region of "Palestine" habitually referred to themselves as "Palestinians."

I have seen, where (in translation) the Roman Governors referred to the "Land of Palestine" (and language to that effect). But I have not seen where the inhabitants actually referred to themselves as "Palestinians." They usually connected the name with something much more clear in meaning - like - "Saul of Tarsus" or "Joseph of Arimathea." Pontius Pilate, Praefectus (translated Roman Magistrate or The High Commissioner - titles still used today) of "Judaea" two-thousand years ago; not the Military Governor of Palestine.

(QUESTIONs)

◈ What is the real relevance to the question (Palestinian 'vs' something else)?

◈ Prior to a thousand years ago, what did the Territory of Palestine actually mean?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The point I was making though was to debunk the OP's assertion that Palestine didn't exist before Israel occupied

Before Israel occupied what?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Before Israel occupied what?

Those dark, dark places in his mind by the looks of it.


It's almost comical with some of these profoundly ignorant people who have been influenced by the antisemitic culture around them. There is a famous piece written in the late 40s by King Abdullah called "As the Arabs See the Jews", and it contains the usual laundry lists of complaints based on half truths, omission of pertinent information, questionable framing and all the propaganda talking points we see today. Not once does he mention a Palestinian people. He talks only of Arabs, and that is because there WERE no people who called themselves Palestinian at the time.

Why this subject is so difficult to comprehend for some people really baffles me. Does their stupidity make them more likely to be antisemitic or does their antisemitism make them stupid?