Is anybody old enough to remember?

[ESay]

Confederation?
I don't need that

Why? I see it quite reasonable. What are your objections?

Agree, IT IS reasonable, for any other country and nation.
I even entertained that idea in various versions.

My objection are book of Devarim 7:1-5

If they wanna play Philistines,
they'll get the appropriate treatment.

If they wanna play Islam on us,
they'll be submitted by former dhimmis.

Even if I choose shared sovereignty,
they'll force us to take full control,
that's their whole 'job' here.

What is common between contemporary Arabs and the seven nations described in the book? Those people with their customs, because of which God commanded to annihilate them, are gone long ago. At least the Muslims are monotheistic, and they recognize parts of the Torah as their scripture.

Contemporary Arabs have honor, these are just savages,
lowest of scum that the core Muslim nations see as filth that gives them bad name.

Remember the construction contractor I was talking about?

Just yesterday his 'cousins' went into his new restaurant in Basmat Tiv'on and murdered a local school teacher, then they ruined the restaurant, if these things were ever reported beyond a line in local news, if at all, I wouldn't have to explain that.

They're the degenerates of the Arab world,
whom no Arab country wants in their society,

And that's how they ended up here,
when it was the most neglected land under the Caliphate.

Everyone knows, it's just not PC to say, and too gruesome to digest.

Well, and nonetheless you will have to deal with them. I think that at some point in the future Israel will expand its sovereignty on all of West Bank and Gaza Strip. Due to that, the number of Muslim population will increase significantly.

I remember that there were plans to resettle significant number of the Arabs to other places in exchange for financial allowances. But I dont think this can be realized in any significant numbers.

So, from the one side you will have doubled (?) Arab population and from the other the need to preserve Israel as a Jewish state. Even if demography will be on your side, the Arabs will be a major issue in Israel's policy and security for generations.

I am sure the best Israel minds have been working on that and have several plans on the table. And of course I dont know these conclusions. But for me, the most obvious outcomes are either a confederation with Israel supervising foreign and security policies and finances or a unitary state with something similar with the Electoral College inserted in that.

Or...we just bring in the Anusim from Central-South America,
and the Pashtunim from Afghanistan and Dagistan.

Reform to parliamentary monarchy,
and before the next evening Abdallah the 2nd begs to sing Hatikvah.

Is there enough place for all these people in Israel? Or you want to exceed the sovereignty on Jordan?

Not sure it is a good idea about the Pashtuns anyway. They are Muslims now.

 

[rylah]

Confederation?
I don't need that

Why? I see it quite reasonable. What are your objections?

Agree, IT IS reasonable, for any other country and nation.
I even entertained that idea in various versions.

My objection are book of Devarim 7:1-5

If they wanna play Philistines,
they'll get the appropriate treatment.

If they wanna play Islam on us,
they'll be submitted by former dhimmis.

Even if I choose shared sovereignty,
they'll force us to take full control,
that's their whole 'job' here.

What is common between contemporary Arabs and the seven nations described in the book? Those people with their customs, because of which God commanded to annihilate them, are gone long ago. At least the Muslims are monotheistic, and they recognize parts of the Torah as their scripture.

Contemporary Arabs have honor, these are just savages,
lowest of scum that the core Muslim nations see as filth that gives them bad name.

Remember the construction contractor I was talking about?

Just yesterday his 'cousins' went into his new restaurant in Basmat Tiv'on and murdered a local school teacher, then they ruined the restaurant, if these things were ever reported beyond a line in local news, if at all, I wouldn't have to explain that.

They're the degenerates of the Arab world,
whom no Arab country wants in their society,

And that's how they ended up here,
when it was the most neglected land under the Caliphate.

Everyone knows, it's just not PC to say, and too gruesome to digest.

Well, and nonetheless you will have to deal with them. I think that at some point in the future Israel will expand its sovereignty on all of West Bank and Gaza Strip. Due to that, the number of Muslim population will increase significantly.

I remember that there were plans to resettle significant number of the Arabs to other places in exchange for financial allowances. But I dont think this can be realized in any significant numbers.

So, from the one side you will have doubled (?) Arab population and from the other the need to preserve Israel as a Jewish state. Even if demography will be on your side, the Arabs will be a major issue in Israel's policy and security for generations.

I am sure the best Israel minds have been working on that and have several plans on the table. And of course I dont know these conclusions. But for me, the most obvious outcomes are either a confederation with Israel supervising foreign and security policies and finances or a unitary state with something similar with the Electoral College inserted in that.

Or...we just bring in the Anusim from Central-South America,
and the Pashtunim from Afghanistan and Dagistan.

Reform to parliamentary monarchy,
and before the next evening Abdallah the 2nd begs to sing Hatikvah.

Is there enough place for all these people in Israel? Or you want to exceed the sovereignty on Jordan?

Not sure it is a good idea about the Pashtuns anyway. They are Muslims now.

More than enough, we've got the entire Negev desert unpopulated,
Judea Samaria still has relatively big open spaces.

Even when we mainly lived of agriculture there was always enough space to accomodate everyone. Jerusalem alone, during the 3 festivals accommodated the entire body of the nation, home and abroad. When people used to gather on the Temple Mount, many couldn't reach the ground with their feet, but when time came to fully prostrate, there was enough space so that neither heard the confessions of each other. That's the unique nature of the land of Israel - to accommodate all of her children.

The tribal lot I'm living in extends all the way to Sidon.
I'm not necessary saying war, but Jordan is definitely up for conversation.


These Muslims?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Rylah
Or...we just bring in the Anusim from Central-South America,
and the Pashtunim from Afghanistan and Dagistan.

Originally posted by Esay
Is there enough place for all these people in Israel? Or you want to exceed the sovereignty on Jordan?

Not sure it is a good idea about the Pashtuns anyway. They are Muslims now.

Rilah's lifelong obsession is bringing millions of catholic brazilians to Israel, Esay... on the "grounds" that they are the "descendants" of some portuguese Jew who decided or was forced to leave the Old World 5 centuries ago.

He already posted a gazillion videos about it.

The guy even dreams at night with millions of brazilians flooding Ben Gurion International Airport everyday for months and years on end.

 

[ESay]

These Muslims?

So, who are they? Mostly Jewish or Muslims with some Jewish features remained?

 

[rylah]

These Muslims?

So, who are they? Mostly Jewish or Muslims with some Jewish features remained?

Family.
They're mostly secluded, and rarely go down the mountains.
I think there're very clear political reasons not much is revealed in the open.

A lot has to do with the US,
and the Muslims among whom they live.

For example, Sarit Hadad (Hadadaev),
probably the most successful Israeli female singe, came from Dagistan.

 

[JoeB131]

Then you're an idiot,
living in America with cities that have higher homicide rate in a single decade,
than all the casualties in the 72 years of the Arab-Israeli wars altogether.

Hey, we Americans have decided to let every idiot have a gun, that's what you get.

But it's still crazy to live next to people who want to kill you because you stole their land.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But it's still crazy to live next to people who want to kill you because you stole their land.

Muslims want to kill plenty of people who never "stole" anything.

 

[JoeB131]

Muslims want to kill plenty of people who never "stole" anything.

One more time, you are the kind of guy who sticks his hand in a hornet's nest and complains about getting stung.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Muslims want to kill plenty of people who never "stole" anything.

One more time, you are the kind of guy who sticks his hand in a hornet's nest and complains about getting stung.

Hornets, like muslims, are cuntz.
They'll attack you even when you leave them alone.

 

[toastman]

What you want is lots of pics of dead Jews to wank off to.

Okay, buddy. What the Nazis did to the Jews doesn't excuse what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians.

If it did, then you really don't have any business criticizing BLM or ANTIFA, as they work on pretty much the same principle. "Someone did a nasty to my people, so I can do a nasty to other people".

I often wonder if some people simply did not receive the right kind attention as children, and so they spend their entire lives being repulsive creeps because that is the only way they get any attention at all.

That actually sounds like Trump. According to his niece.

View attachment 378139

I have long considered the hatred of Jews to be symptomatic of some much deeper issues. When some of these creatures create an entirely fictitious history to justify their hatred, doubly so.

That's nice, buddy, but it isn't about "Jews", it's about Zionism and the foolishness of supporting an apartheid state in the Middle East. Israel can ONLY exist by regulating the Arab citizens to second class citizenship. It makes it no different than South Africa or the US under Jim Crow. Any sensible person can see those were wrong.

ndeed. Most of it is just weird, as if there aren't any legitimate criticisms over thousands of years or something. For the left wingers here it's mostly coming from assorted sexual deviants and goes hand in hand with Xian bashing rubbish, and the holocaust denial is of course based on Nazi and European apologia; most of conquered Europe assisted in rounding them up, but they hope to bury it under 'Da Natzees did it!!!', particularly Poland and the other eastern Europeans,

Okay, someone needed to teach you at an early age not to do run-on sentences. That said, you really can't deny the role Christianity played in the Holocaust and all the other oppressions of Jews that happened before that. Jews killed their magic God-man. It's in the bible. (Of course, I don't think they did because I don't think Jesus ever existed).

and of course the British were actually ramming refugee ships, as if Jews were supposed to remain forever in the concentration camps, where many still were in 1947, two years after being 'liberated', unable to return to Poland or the east for fear of being murdered by the locals as many indeed were when they tried to return to their homes. Sick freaks like Joe of course like the idea of mass murders instead.

No, we had an army there, we should have had no problem returning them to their homes. In fact, all the other people who were sent to concentration camps, (Including a cousin of mine who was a Catholic Priest who had criticized the Nazis) were allowed to go home after the war.

What was unacceptable was saying, "Here, you can have Palestine, that none of you showed any interest in going to before the war, and here's a bunch of weapons so you can do to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to you."

"Two Wrongs don't make a right"- ONe of the few sensible things the nuns taught me growing up.

Israel isn’t doing anything to the Palestinians . The Palestinians are the ones shooting themselves on the foot. Don’t like it? Stop attacking Israel.. wanna keep attacking Israel? Don’t whine when you suffer the wrath of the IDF

 

[toastman]

Muslims want to kill plenty of people who never "stole" anything.

One more time, you are the kind of guy who sticks his hand in a hornet's nest and complains about getting stung.

Nah, that would be the Palestinians ....

 

[Indeependent]

You mean like Czarist Russia? Their "diversity and multiculturalism" Czar hadn't been appointed yet. If you read history, those terms and "tolerant" govts hadn't yet been invented... Govt AND RELIGION were one and the same.. You sleep thru European history or something??

Nope, I have a degree in history, thanks for asking.

I'm still waiting for these supposedly "Tolerant" governments to be invented.

You mean "Revisionist" History.

 

[Indeependent]

Nice fantasy, nobody is buying it.

How about this. We return Palestine to the Palestinians and the Europeans can set aside some land in EUROPE for the Zionists. That seem fair, since it was the Europeans who did the nasty to them in WWII.

It is no fantasy, subhuman. If you actually HAD a degree in history, you would know this.

JobB may have attended Brandeis or some other university where they teach Alternative History.

 

[Indeependent]

Who is the "we" you are volunteering to dismantle Israel? Grab your rakes and pitchforks and lead the gee-had, tough guy. Wannabe Caliphate'ist Erdogan wants the Caliphate back so send him an email and you two can realign borders across the Middle East.

You are obviously unaware that the geographic area of "Palestine" was land controlled by the Ottoman caliphate. At no time were ''Palestinians'' a distinct entity, separate from the caliphate.

Wow, so this attempt to erase a people... who does that remind you of?

Come on, you can guess... he had a funny little mustache.

Every nation that has ever existed?
Ever hear of Pakistan or Muslims in general?

 

[toastman]

Israel also has Muslim, Christian and Bachai minorities. And I haven't heard someone was persecuted there for religion affiliation.

You mean other than the Paletinians being kept behind walls and forced to go through checkpoints? Israel is an apartheid state.

Good point. And what America's interests in foreign relations? Middle East specifically?

As far as I'm concerned, we have none. If we took the money we spend every year playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East and spent it on alternative energy and infrastructure, we wouldn't need to do anything at all.

Instead, we keep getting into wars because the Zionists instigate them or because that wonderful guy who was going to kill the bad guys for us turned their guns on us. (Saddam, Bin Laden, the Rebels in Libya... waiting for the Kurds to start shooting us.)

Why do Palestinians have to go through checkpoints??

 

[José]

Originally posted by toastman
Israel isn’t doing anything to the Palestinians . The Palestinians are the ones shooting themselves on the foot. Don’t like it? Stop attacking Israel.. wanna keep attacking Israel? Don’t whine when you suffer the wrath of the IDF

Now comes the most shocking revelation of the entire book.

The initial flow of refugees back to their villages, towns and cities in 1948 was 100% civilian, unarmed and peaceful and for the most part continued to be so for the next 7 years.

Israel's Border Wars​

The vast majority of the infiltrators during the second half of 1948, 1949, and 1950 came unarmed, which would suggest that their purpose was not political-terrorist. (PAG 51).

... during 1949-56. The evidence suggests that the vast majority were unarmed; the overwhelming majority had infiltrated for economic or social reasons. (Pag. 452)

COMMENT:

Where are the fedayeen, the intifadas, the suicide bombings, the rockets, where is all the Palestinian aggression that according to Coyote and FY436 gave origin to the present phase of the conflict and against which toastman and Hollie said Israel was retaliating?

Israel has NO reason to attack Palestinians other than to defend Israel from further attacks or to retaliate.

toastman

The 48 war had already ended.

There was no arab soldier invading Israel.

No ALA guerrilla fighter (Arab Liberation Army).

No Palestinian armed struggle yet...

Just a civilian, mainly peasant population, peaceful, urnarmed, who just wanted to resume their normal lives, tend their crops, raise their livestock...

Their return to their homeland was not accompanied by any aggression against Israel, their return to their villages was nothing Israel had to defend itself from...

The only "crime" they commited was not belonging to the "official" ethnicity of the supremacist state that had just been imposed on them by brute force.

Is censored really defending itself in 2020?

 

[flacaltenn]

Israel also has Muslim, Christian and Bachai minorities. And I haven't heard someone was persecuted there for religion affiliation.

You mean other than the Paletinians being kept behind walls and forced to go through checkpoints? Israel is an apartheid state.

Good point. And what America's interests in foreign relations? Middle East specifically?

As far as I'm concerned, we have none. If we took the money we spend every year playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East and spent it on alternative energy and infrastructure, we wouldn't need to do anything at all.

Instead, we keep getting into wars because the Zionists instigate them or because that wonderful guy who was going to kill the bad guys for us turned their guns on us. (Saddam, Bin Laden, the Rebels in Libya... waiting for the Kurds to start shooting us.)

Why do Palestinians have to go through checkpoints??

Because they are not Israeli citizens. And they DONT WANT TO BE citizens of Israel.. Neither do they really want a "national federal Pali govt".. So -- there is no real DESIRE to form a "nation" of Palestine. Read my post above about their PREFERRED socio-political organization..

 

[flacaltenn]

Originally posted by toastman
Israel isn’t doing anything to the Palestinians . The Palestinians are the ones shooting themselves on the foot. Don’t like it? Stop attacking Israel.. wanna keep attacking Israel? Don’t whine when you suffer the wrath of the IDF

Now comes the most shocking revelation of the entire book.

The initial flow of refugees back to their villages, towns and cities in 1948 was 100% civilian, unarmed and peaceful and for the most part continued to be so for the next 7 years.

Israel's Border Wars​

The vast majority of the infiltrators during the second half of 1948, 1949, and 1950 came unarmed, which would suggest that their purpose was not political-terrorist. (PAG 51).

... during 1949-56. The evidence suggests that the vast majority were unarmed; the overwhelming majority had infiltrated for economic or social reasons. (Pag. 452)

COMMENT:

Where are the fedayeen, the intifadas, the suicide bombings, the rockets, where is all the Palestinian aggression that according to Coyote and FY436 gave origin to the present phase of the conflict and against which toastman and Hollie said Israel was retaliating?

Israel has NO reason to attack Palestinians other than to defend Israel from further attacks or to retaliate.

toastman

The 48 war had already ended.

There was no arab soldier invading Israel.

No ALA guerrilla fighter (Arab Liberation Army).

No Palestinian armed struggle yet...

Just a civilian, mainly peasant population, peaceful, urnarmed, who just wanted to resume their normal lives, tend their crops, raise their livestock...

Their return to their homeland was not accompanied by any aggression against Israel, their return to their villages was nothing Israel had to defend itself from...

The only "crime" they commited was not belonging to the "official" ethnicity of the supremacist state that had just been imposed on them by brute force.

Is censored really defending itself in 2020?

Correct.. Israeli Knesset is more than 12 or 15% Arab.. Long time Arab residents made peace with Israel and PROSPER in Israel.. Even aid the IDForces in critical roles as volunteers. Issue is NOT with the Arabs that chose to stay or return after hostilities. The issue is largely "Jordanian citizens" displaced by the 1967 war.. Who BTW are prospering much better than those Palis who later fled to Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and other neighbors.. THEY live a much more restricted and harsher life..

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Originally posted by toastman
Israel isn’t doing anything to the Palestinians . The Palestinians are the ones shooting themselves on the foot. Don’t like it? Stop attacking Israel.. wanna keep attacking Israel? Don’t whine when you suffer the wrath of the IDF

Now comes the most shocking revelation of the entire book.

The initial flow of refugees back to their villages, towns and cities in 1948 was 100% civilian, unarmed and peaceful and for the most part continued to be so for the next 7 years.

Israel's Border Wars​

The vast majority of the infiltrators during the second half of 1948, 1949, and 1950 came unarmed, which would suggest that their purpose was not political-terrorist. (PAG 51).

... during 1949-56. The evidence suggests that the vast majority were unarmed; the overwhelming majority had infiltrated for economic or social reasons. (Pag. 452)

COMMENT:

Where are the fedayeen, the intifadas, the suicide bombings, the rockets, where is all the Palestinian aggression that according to Coyote and FY436 gave origin to the present phase of the conflict and against which toastman and Hollie said Israel was retaliating?

Israel has NO reason to attack Palestinians other than to defend Israel from further attacks or to retaliate.

toastman

The 48 war had already ended.

There was no arab soldier invading Israel.

No ALA guerrilla fighter (Arab Liberation Army).

No Palestinian armed struggle yet...

Just a civilian, mainly peasant population, peaceful, urnarmed, who just wanted to resume their normal lives, tend their crops, raise their livestock...

Their return to their homeland was not accompanied by any aggression against Israel, their return to their villages was nothing Israel had to defend itself from...

The only "crime" they commited was not belonging to the "official" ethnicity of the supremacist state that had just been imposed on them by brute force.

Is censored really defending itself in 2020?

Correct.. Israeli Knesset is more than 12 or 15% Arab.. Long time Arab residents made peace with Israel and PROSPER in Israel.. Even aid the IDForces in critical roles as volunteers. Issue is NOT with the Arabs that chose to stay or return after hostilities. The issue is largely "Jordanian citizens" displaced by the 1967 war.. Who BTW are prospering much better than those Palis who later fled to Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and other neighbors.. THEY live a much more restricted and harsher life..

The ones who prosper tend to be of the Nashashashibi clan.

It is the al Husseini clan that is genocidal.

 

[José]

Correct.. Israeli Knesset is more than 12 or 15% Arab.. Long time Arab residents made peace with Israel and PROSPER in Israel.. Even aid the IDForces in critical roles as volunteers. Issue is NOT with the Arabs that chose to stay or return after hostilities. The issue is largely "Jordanian citizens" displaced by the 1967 war.. Who BTW are prospering much better than those Palis who later fled to Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and other neighbors.. THEY live a much more restricted and harsher life..

flacaltenn

The ones who prosper tend to be of the Nashashashibi clan.

It is the al Husseini clan that is genocidal.

Dogmaphobe

Funny...

I read all 445 pages of Israel's Border Wars twice and don't recall Morris saying anything about israeli snipers and machine gunners shooting pro-Husseini refugees and letting the rest return to their villages from 1948 to 1956 (the period covered by the book).

The book makes it clear the Hagganah-IDF soldiers were all equal opportunity murderers.