Irony (in Christian Terms)

catzmeow

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I wonder how many of you have ever critically examined the root basis of your "faith." This was one of the foundational premises of Christianity that I first rejected.
 

Youwerecreated

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I wonder how many of you have ever critically examined the root basis of your "faith." This was one of the foundational premises of Christianity that I first rejected.
Do you believe we are all ignorant and uneducated or something ?

God is both loving and just,do loving parents hand out punishment ?
 

Shogun

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Timmy, I love you so much that if you don't eat your peas I'll set you on fire for ETERNITY!
 

Youwerecreated

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Timmy, I love you so much that if you don't eat your peas I'll set you on fire for ETERNITY!
What laws do the evil break ?

What laws do childrten break against their parents ?

Not all Christians believe in a firery place of torment .that kinda cointradicts God being loving and just no ?
 

Shogun

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Timmy, I love you so much that if you don't eat your peas I'll set you on fire for ETERNITY!
What laws do the evil break ?

What laws do childrten break against their parents ?

Not all Christians believe in a firery place of torment .that kinda cointradicts God being loving and just no ?
You can't pick and choose what part of the bible you want to believe in. Argue about the trinity all you want, such is a matter of denominational interpretation, but the bible is clear about what the wages of sin is. If you don't believe in hell you might as well have just said that you don't believe in salvation either.
 
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catzmeow

catzmeow

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Exactly what could your children do that would make you feel that throwing them into a roaring fire would be a fit punishment? If you think that is normal parent/child interaction, I hope you don't have children.
 
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catzmeow

catzmeow

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Do you believe we are all ignorant and uneducated or something ?

God is both loving and just,do loving parents hand out punishment ?
I think that you are a reasonably intelligent man who hasn't really thought through the ultimate meaning of his beliefs in these terms. You're old, you're scared of hell, and you'd suck up to God in any way necessary to keep him from torturing you. I don't think that people who are in the middle of a panic attack are the most capable of rational thought.
 

Youwerecreated

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Timmy, I love you so much that if you don't eat your peas I'll set you on fire for ETERNITY!
What laws do the evil break ?

What laws do childrten break against their parents ?

Not all Christians believe in a firery place of torment .that kinda cointradicts God being loving and just no ?
You can't pick and choose what part of the bible you want to believe in. Argue about the trinity all you want, such is a matter of denominational interpretation, but the bible is clear about what the wages of sin is. If you don't believe in hell you might as well have just said that you don't believe in salvation either.
To understand the term hell you have to trace it's roots in both Hebrew and Greek the term is represented by Sheol, Hades and Gehenna they all represent Hell which is described as the world of the dead and and where people sleep and their thoughts are no more. In other words it is the grave of mankind.

It is eternal judgment unless you're resurrected from there which many will be.

Then the grave some day will be no more that is why it say's in the book of revelation that death and hell was cast into the lake of fire, pointing out the fact that they will exist no more because there will be no more death.


Rev 21:4 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.


Now to look at death and hell.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him sitting on it was Death, and Hell followed with him. And authority was given to them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword and with hunger and with death and by the beasts of the earth.


Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Can you see the symbolism ?
 

Youwerecreated

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Exactly what could your children do that would make you feel that throwing them into a roaring fire would be a fit punishment? If you think that is normal parent/child interaction, I hope you don't have children.
We are not talking about a mans judgment that is limited we are talking about a Gods judgment that knows all.

His ways are definately diffgerent from ours., Being a just God he does not go back on his words and God does not destroy us for evey sin that is why there is atonement. He will forgive sin but on his final judgment he knows everyone that is worthy of the world to come young and old.

He has the ability to know our hearts there is nothing we can hide from him. You and I think like a finite human being where God reason and thinks as an infinite being. But he made it clear to all men there will be an accounting for all sin period.

We don't have the ability to look at a child and know he will be a career criminal or serial killer God does. We see all children as innocent but the bible say's we all sin and we were born in sin.
 

Youwerecreated

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Do you believe we are all ignorant and uneducated or something ?

God is both loving and just,do loving parents hand out punishment ?
I think that you are a reasonably intelligent man who hasn't really thought through the ultimate meaning of his beliefs in these terms. You're old, you're scared of hell, and you'd suck up to God in any way necessary to keep him from torturing you. I don't think that people who are in the middle of a panic attack are the most capable of rational thought.
You're right about a few things but I do not live in fear. I feel joy and contentment everyday of my life. I don't let the beauty of Gods creation go un-noticed each and every day. I love life and I realized how much I loved it when I had my close call to death. I realized how much I use to take for granted.

I can't come up with any rational explanation as to how life started absent of a creator. Everything we observe and all the evidence produced proves life begets life. So it is not such a reach to have such faith in a creator with a plan.
 

Youwerecreated

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1. (Christian Religious Writings / Bible) Old Testament the valley below Jerusalem, where children were sacrificed and where idolatry was practised (II Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 19:6) and where later offal and refuse were slowly burned
Gehenna - definition of Gehenna by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
It was a dump and things were sacrificed and garbage was done away with through burning. Dead is dead some peoples grave is in a predator,or the sea,or in a grave but they're all the same place.

Let me give you an example.

Jon 1:17 And Jehovah had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Jon 2:1 And Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 and he said, I cried to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
 

Moonglow

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1. (Christian Religious Writings / Bible) Old Testament the valley below Jerusalem, where children were sacrificed and where idolatry was practised (II Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 19:6) and where later offal and refuse were slowly burned
Gehenna - definition of Gehenna by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
It was a dump and things were sacrificed and garbage was done away with through burning. Dead is dead some peoples grave is in a predator,or the sea,or in a grave but they're all the same place.

Let me give you an example.

Jon 1:17 And Jehovah had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Jon 2:1 And Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 and he said, I cried to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
so jonah died in the whale?
 

editec

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I wonder how many of you have ever critically examined the root basis of your "faith." This was one of the foundational premises of Christianity that I first rejected.
The existence of HELL and the punishment of transgressors is NOT one of the foundational premises of Christianity.

Certainly many Christians think it is, but so the hell what?

I was never taught that one ought to be a good Christian to avoid Hell.

I was taught that leading a Christian life was its own reward DURING life.

I was taught that the living by the golden rule was a good thing for no other reason that it was the right thing to do.

And yes I was raised as a mainline Protestant, not some splinter far out Christian cult.

Now I do not advocate that you become a Christian. Be what you want and good luck with it, too.

But I would appreciate it if you stopped telling me a load of malarchy about what you imagine I believe.

If you don't like Chistendom, don't be a Christian.

Easy peasy, kid.
 

Marie888

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That's a good question. Alot of the time in the Bible, people were asking Jesus Christ questions also. Alot of it also has to do with understanding the characteristics of God, and not misunderstanding Him. When I first was seeking more of the Lord, I had many misconceptions; sometimes I still do. All of which are always answered in His Word.

It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ (us knowing Him personally) that puts things into light for us. After that, we never stop learning.

But think about it - how can someone even begin to try to understand Him, or why He does what He does, if they are already going in kicking against at how He does things? Know what I mean?

Besides, since He's God, and He's done things a certain way, who are we to tell Him how to do things? Satan thought He was better or knew better than God too and God created him also.

Isaiah 14
The Fall of Lucifer

12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

Alot of times, our Lord Jesus Christ answered in parables, hopefully for some to understand the Kingdom of God better. Here's a link with a list of parables (if you want), it may help by reading some of these.

Jesus' 46 Parables in Chronological Order - Practical Bible study - 26 lessons - What it means today


Perhaps this link may help also:
How is eternity in hell a fair punishment for sin?
Question: "How is eternity in hell a fair punishment for sin?"

Answer: This is an issue that bothers many people who have an incomplete understanding of three things: the nature of God, the nature of man, and the nature of sin. As fallen, sinful human beings, the nature of God is a difficult concept for us to grasp. We tend to see God as a kind, merciful Being whose love for us overrides and overshadows all His other attributes. Of course God is loving, kind, and merciful, but He is first and foremost a holy and righteous God. So holy is He that He cannot tolerate sin. He is a God whose anger burns against the wicked and disobedient (Isaiah 5:25; Hosea 8:5; Zechariah 10:3). He is not only a loving God—He is love itself! But the Bible also tells us that He hates all manner of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19). And while He is merciful, there are limits to His mercy. “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7)....(please see link for more..)

Overall, the basic answer to your question is that when He reveals to us Who He is, and we don't believe Him - it is sin. (it is "wrong"). And there is a punishment for sin. We may not like the punishment, but again, who are we to tell God how to do things? Really, who are we???

Isaiah 45
9 “ Woe to him who strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth! Shall the clay say to Him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’

When we are born again, we know in an instant that He IS the Lord, that we have been in sin by rebelling against Him and His Truth, by not believing Him. That is our first repentance. After that, He begins the work in us, taking things off of us that hurt ourselves and others, and we start to repent of other things. We get humbled big time from our great pride; things we'd never think we did wrong, He brings to light. And all those things are usually of "self" instead of loving others. Getting disciplined is very hard. (My thought on that is that is why it is said in the Bible that people love darkness rather than light; because deep down we know we will have to start turning away from our sins - and hey, who wants to do that?)

But I mean think about it. He's already given us a free gift through Jesus Christ, and many will still kick against Him and spit in His Face.

Question: Was there anymore the Lord could possibly do besides die for the sins of the world? There is no greater love than to give your life for those you love.



.
 
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Youwerecreated

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It was a dump and things were sacrificed and garbage was done away with through burning. Dead is dead some peoples grave is in a predator,or the sea,or in a grave but they're all the same place.

Let me give you an example.

Jon 1:17 And Jehovah had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Jon 2:1 And Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 and he said, I cried to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
so jonah died in the whale?
No but he thought he was and what did he call the place ?


Jon 2:2

(ASV) And he said, I called by reason of mine affliction unto Jehovah, And he answered me; Out of the belly of Sheol cried I, And thou heardest my voice.

(BBE) In my trouble I was crying to the Lord, and he gave me an answer; out of the deepest underworld I sent up a cry, and you gave ear to my voice.

(CEV) When I was in trouble, LORD, I prayed to you, and you listened to me. From deep in the world of the dead, I begged for your help, and you answered my prayer.



(KJV) And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

(KJV+) And said,H559 I criedH7121 by reason of mine afflictionH4480 H6869 untoH413 the LORD,H3068 and he heardH6030 me; out of the bellyH4480 H990 of hellH7585 criedH7768 I, and thou heardestH8085 my voice.H6963

(MKJV) and he said, I cried to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.



This version is from the online Jewish tanakh who else would better understand Hebrew ?

Yonah - Jonah - Chapter 2


Chapter 2
1. And the Lord appointed a huge fish to swallow up Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights. א.
2. And Jonah prayed to the Lord his God, from the belly of the fish. ב.
3. And he said: I called out from my distress to the Lord, and He answered me; from the belly of the grave I cried out, You heard my voice.
 

Youwerecreated

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Hell is death, Gods Judgment on us will be eternal,some eternal life and some eternal death.
 

Quantum Windbag

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I wonder how many of you have ever critically examined the root basis of your "faith." This was one of the foundational premises of Christianity that I first rejected.
That is not what Jesus said, nor is it what the Bible teaches. Before you start criticizing me for not examining the roots of my doctrine, which is not actually related to my faith, you should make a small effort to understand it yourself.
 

Quantum Windbag

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Exactly what could your children do that would make you feel that throwing them into a roaring fire would be a fit punishment? If you think that is normal parent/child interaction, I hope you don't have children.
Why don't we start this discussion by showing where the Bible actually talks about throwing anyone into a roaring fire.
 

IndependntLogic

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I wonder how many of you have ever critically examined the root basis of your "faith." This was one of the foundational premises of Christianity that I first rejected.
1. Not all Christians hold that belief / interpretation.
2. Hmmm. You are really concerned with the beliefs of others, aren't you? So then, you're just like Christians who are really concerned with your beliefs! I bet you really appreciate them.
 

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