Zone1 One significant reason why many do not believe in religion, it is just too damn hard

[shockedcanadian]

Now, there are of course many reasons so I simplify for the purpose of this discussion but the difficulties of being a good human being is a significant contributor to peoples lack of faith.

It is difficult to commit oneself to being noble, principled, objective, shining light onto the world, helping the needy etc. This becomes more daunting when surrounded by scores of selfish, diabolical individuals who are not.

Another key contributor to Atheism is almost certainly the time and discipline required. This is true whether it is reading our faiths book, the pageantry of the process or going to church, a synagogue, a mosque or temple.

Further restrictive and a barrier to some is the commitments to holidays and rituals, foods etc. I do not begrudge those who find it difficult to observe this way, at the very least though, one must maintain the core tenets of principle, morality and character. Even this appears to be extremely difficult for so many, being evil is much essier for some, perhaps more natural for them (even for the "good guys")

There is a well known George Carlin comedic bit called "religion is bullsh*t". He is extremely critical of G-d, basically mocks the idea of the "invisible man in the sky". As I am an extremely comfortable person listening to opposing views, most evident in my openness to watching media from all sides even as I may disagree with some speakers 99% of the time; I watch his skit and laugh. I understand his position, there is a reason I rejected false believers of faith also and I read with a critical eye some of the stories within the bible. It is after all, written by man, not infallible.

Yes, some stories within the bible are far-fetched, one does not have to be too literal with everything in the bible in my estimation, at least I am not. I believe one should at least appreciate the message or general premise, that which G-d demands of us is more meaningful. It is difficult but that is the task, it is supposed to be difficult.

Those who warp religion for their own ends is the problem with religion today. That is what makes faith that much more difficult, especially if one is Jewish and is demanded to be stalwart models of faith, an obligation that requires significant moral leadership.

I suppose I am fortunate enough to at least be honest in the face of diverting representations. Objective enough to distinguish between true representatives of faith vs the many, MANY false chsracters we see in mass media today. This criticism of plastic people of faith is not relegated to any one religion for the record, no one faith has a monopoly on false practitioners, though I was discouraged enough to confront my own.

We as followers of G-d must acknowledge that it is not easy to be a person of faith, but consider the alternative. The "fake" people of faith should serve to remind us of just how dark the world will be if the true believers, the good men and women who act by G-ds instructions, not just talk a good game become the dominant ideology. Our species and the universe as a whole canmot survive the darkness some repeatedly emit.

Even those who do not believe in G-d can be good, moral human beings. I applaud all who are regardless of faith or no faith. Look around. See the social media clips and chatter. Are the good, honourable and righteous winning the day?

 

[JoeB131]

Further restrictive and a barrier to some is the commitments to holidays and rituals, foods etc. I do not begrudge those who find it difficult to observe this way, at the very least though, one must maintain the core tenets of principle, morality and character. Even this appears to be extremely difficult for so many, being evil is much essier for some, perhaps more natural for them (even for the "good guys")

Your premise is flawed.

Belief in a God does not equate to being a good person.

I know atheists who are very nice people. I know "Christians" I wouldn't turn my back on.

What I've found with Theists is that they can twist and turn their dogma to justify just about anything.

And when I got a chance to get away from religion, I bolted like a bat out of hell.

 

[rightwinger]

Another key contributor to Atheism is almost certainly the time and discipline required. This is true whether it is reading our faiths book, the pageantry of the process or going to church, a synagogue, a mosque or temple.

People become non practicing Christians if the church requirements are too hard

Atheists have heard the stories and just don’t believe them

 

[shockedcanadian]

People become non practicing Christians if the church requirements are too hard

Atheists have heard the stories and just don’t believe them

There are many corrupt, G-dless people in Canada.

Look at our trajectory and how little we innovate, how little social progress we have made on liberty. Look at the policies such as MAID and unaccountable, crooked police framing people are destroying our young, destroying our economy.

Just from a practical, standard of living matter, is this more appealing than Judeo-Christian values? Throw in the moral issues and clearly we are not your ally nor a nation (and province) the world trusts.

 

[markef]

Now, there are of course many reasons so I simplify for the purpose of this discussion but the difficulties of being a good human being is a significant contributor to peoples lack of faith.

It is difficult to commit oneself to being noble, principled, objective, shining light onto the world, helping the needy etc. This becomes more daunting when surrounded by scores of selfish, diabolical individuals who are not.

Another key contributor to Atheism is almost certainly the time and discipline required. This is true whether it is reading our faiths book, the pageantry of the process or going to church, a synagogue, a mosque or temple.

Further restrictive and a barrier to some is the commitments to holidays and rituals, foods etc. I do not begrudge those who find it difficult to observe this way, at the very least though, one must maintain the core tenets of principle, morality and character. Even this appears to be extremely difficult for so many, being evil is much essier for some, perhaps more natural for them (even for the "good guys")

There is a well known George Carlin comedic bit called "religion is bullsh*t". He is extremely critical of G-d, basically mocks the idea of the "invisible man in the sky". As I am an extremely comfortable person listening to opposing views, most evident in my openness to watching media from all sides even as I may disagree with some speakers 99% of the time; I watch his skit and laugh. I understand his position, there is a reason I rejected false believers of faith also and I read with a critical eye some of the stories within the bible. It is after all, written by man, not infallible.

Yes, some stories within the bible are far-fetched, one does not have to be too literal with everything in the bible in my estimation, at least I am not. I believe one should at least appreciate the message or general premise, that which G-d demands of us is more meaningful. It is difficult but that is the task, it is supposed to be difficult.

Those who warp religion for their own ends is the problem with religion today. That is what makes faith that much more difficult, especially if one is Jewish and is demanded to be stalwart models of faith, an obligation that requires significant moral leadership.

I suppose I am fortunate enough to at least be honest in the face of diverting representations. Objective enough to distinguish between true representatives of faith vs the many, MANY false chsracters we see in mass media today. This criticism of plastic people of faith is not relegated to any one religion for the record, no one faith has a monopoly on false practitioners, though I was discouraged enough to confront my own.

We as followers of G-d must acknowledge that it is not easy to be a person of faith, but consider the alternative. The "fake" people of faith should serve to remind us of just how dark the world will be if the true believers, the good men and women who act by G-ds instructions, not just talk a good game become the dominant ideology. Our species and the universe as a whole canmot survive the darkness some repeatedly emit.

Even those who do not believe in G-d can be good, moral human beings. I applaud all who are regardless of faith or no faith. Look around. See the social media clips and chatter. Are the good, honourable and righteous winning the day?

It is not only hard but impossible for sinners to make themselves Christians. Jesus is the only One who can do that

 

[DGS49]

Assume all of the religious "articles of faith" are bullshit. All of them. Every religion. Jesus was not God, and maybe never existed. The miracles of the Torah are all made-up. Mohammad was a fraud, as was Joseph Smith. Complete the list on your own.

Now, if you are a serious person, you should consider two possible scenarios, and which one you would prefer to be true.

One scenario is that humans are just animals like cockroaches, with no more significance in The Big Picture than those nasty little insects. We are born, we live, we die. It makes no difference ultimately whether we live a virtuous life (the tenets of which are fairly easy to ascertain) or a life of evil (ditto). There are virtuous people who live a life of sacrifice, doing everything possible to help those around him, and when they die, they are - like everyone else - just DEAD. There are scoundrels who exploit every person, every thing, leaving a trail of misery throughout their lives and profiting greatly from that quest, and when they die the are similarly just DEAD. That's the end of it.

The second scenario is that what we do in life MATTERS. The former example above is rewarded in an "afterlife" with an eternity filled with some sort of reward for his virtue, and the latter example is punished (or extinguished) in the "afterlife" for his life of evil and exploitation.

Religious faith is a CHOICE. It is not something that we pray for and somehow God gives it to us for our sincere prayers. We CHOOSE to believe in a religious idiom, and follow it to the best of our ability, or we choose to believe that there is no God, no afterlife, no reward for virtue and no punishment for evil. Every part of our existence from conception to death is observable and we just live with it. And we choose (or don't choose) our particular religion or religious tradition based on our own inherent values and priorities; there is some religion for everyone if you just look for it.

I submit that being a religious person has its own rewards, and in most cases it makes us a better citizen of the world. We do not exploit other people; we are kind and generous and considerate; we contribute to our families and neighborhoods and countries; we are likely to answer the call to service by joining the Armed Forces or the local VFD, or volunteering at the local food bank, or even devoting our life in service to others.

Atheists don't do that sort of thing, unless they see some benefit for themselves. When a religious person wants to do something nice, he does something nice. When an atheist wants to do something nice, he votes for Bernie Fcuking Sanders, and depends on Bernie to do the nice things for him, with OPM.

There is an expression sometimes used by Judeo-Christians: "fear of God." It is not really fear of the Supreme Being. It is recognition that a Supreme Being exists, and He is not YOU. There is an ultimate authority out there who defines what is right and wrong, what is virtuous and evil, and you don't get a choice to make your own determinations based on what you like in the moment. Atheists believe, in effect, they they are "god." They can make those calls, and everyone who disagrees with them is wrong. Fear of God acknowledges that what we do in this life MATTERS, and it still matters even if it is never discovered by others.

I wouldn't say that religion is "hard," any more than I would say that nurturing your own offspring is "hard." It's something that good people do. Being an atheist is lazy, practically and intellectually. But it does free up your Sundays.

 

[SweetSue92]

Now, there are of course many reasons so I simplify for the purpose of this discussion but the difficulties of being a good human being is a significant contributor to peoples lack of faith.

It is difficult to commit oneself to being noble, principled, objective, shining light onto the world, helping the needy etc. This becomes more daunting when surrounded by scores of selfish, diabolical individuals who are not.

Another key contributor to Atheism is almost certainly the time and discipline required. This is true whether it is reading our faiths book, the pageantry of the process or going to church, a synagogue, a mosque or temple.

Further restrictive and a barrier to some is the commitments to holidays and rituals, foods etc. I do not begrudge those who find it difficult to observe this way, at the very least though, one must maintain the core tenets of principle, morality and character. Even this appears to be extremely difficult for so many, being evil is much essier for some, perhaps more natural for them (even for the "good guys")

There is a well known George Carlin comedic bit called "religion is bullsh*t". He is extremely critical of G-d, basically mocks the idea of the "invisible man in the sky". As I am an extremely comfortable person listening to opposing views, most evident in my openness to watching media from all sides even as I may disagree with some speakers 99% of the time; I watch his skit and laugh. I understand his position, there is a reason I rejected false believers of faith also and I read with a critical eye some of the stories within the bible. It is after all, written by man, not infallible.

Yes, some stories within the bible are far-fetched, one does not have to be too literal with everything in the bible in my estimation, at least I am not. I believe one should at least appreciate the message or general premise, that which G-d demands of us is more meaningful. It is difficult but that is the task, it is supposed to be difficult.

Those who warp religion for their own ends is the problem with religion today. That is what makes faith that much more difficult, especially if one is Jewish and is demanded to be stalwart models of faith, an obligation that requires significant moral leadership.

I suppose I am fortunate enough to at least be honest in the face of diverting representations. Objective enough to distinguish between true representatives of faith vs the many, MANY false chsracters we see in mass media today. This criticism of plastic people of faith is not relegated to any one religion for the record, no one faith has a monopoly on false practitioners, though I was discouraged enough to confront my own.

We as followers of G-d must acknowledge that it is not easy to be a person of faith, but consider the alternative. The "fake" people of faith should serve to remind us of just how dark the world will be if the true believers, the good men and women who act by G-ds instructions, not just talk a good game become the dominant ideology. Our species and the universe as a whole canmot survive the darkness some repeatedly emit.

Even those who do not believe in G-d can be good, moral human beings. I applaud all who are regardless of faith or no faith. Look around. See the social media clips and chatter. Are the good, honourable and righteous winning the day?

Yes, this is why Christianity is so different.

You're talking about man-made religion above, which is all save Christianity. Yes, you're basically building a ladder to God by being a "good person".

None of us qualify for that. Not one.

 

[JoeB131]

Assume all of the religious "articles of faith" are bullshit. All of them. Every religion. Jesus was not God, and maybe never existed. The miracles of the Torah are all made-up. Mohammad was a fraud, as was Joseph Smith. Complete the list on your own.

Now, if you are a serious person, you should consider two possible scenarios, and which one you would prefer to be true.

One scenario is that humans are just animals like cockroaches, with no more significance in The Big Picture than those nasty little insects. We are born, we live, we die. It makes no difference ultimately whether we live a virtuous life (the tenets of which are fairly easy to ascertain) or a life of evil (ditto). There are virtuous people who live a life of sacrifice, doing everything possible to help those around him, and when they die, they are - like everyone else - just DEAD. There are scoundrels who exploit every person, every thing, leaving a trail of misery throughout their lives and profiting greatly from that quest, and when they die the are similarly just DEAD. That's the end of it.

The second scenario is that what we do in life MATTERS. The former example above is rewarded in an "afterlife" with an eternity filled with some sort of reward for his virtue, and the latter example is punished (or extinguished) in the "afterlife" for his life of evil and exploitation.

Religious faith is a CHOICE. It is not something that we pray for and somehow God gives it to us for our sincere prayers. We CHOOSE to believe in a religious idiom, and follow it to the best of our ability, or we choose to believe that there is no God, no afterlife, no reward for virtue and no punishment for evil. Every part of our existence from conception to death is observable and we just live with it. And we choose (or don't choose) our particular religion or religious tradition based on our own inherent values and priorities; there is some religion for everyone if you just look for it.

I submit that being a religious person has its own rewards, and in most cases it makes us a better citizen of the world. We do not exploit other people; we are kind and generous and considerate; we contribute to our families and neighborhoods and countries; we are likely to answer the call to service by joining the Armed Forces or the local VFD, or volunteering at the local food bank, or even devoting our life in service to others.

Atheists don't do that sort of thing, unless they see some benefit for themselves. When a religious person wants to do something nice, he does something nice. When an atheist wants to do something nice, he votes for Bernie Fcuking Sanders, and depends on Bernie to do the nice things for him, with OPM.

There is an expression sometimes used by Judeo-Christians: "fear of God." It is not really fear of the Supreme Being. It is recognition that a Supreme Being exists, and He is not YOU. There is an ultimate authority out there who defines what is right and wrong, what is virtuous and evil, and you don't get a choice to make your own determinations based on what you like in the moment. Atheists believe, in effect, they they are "god." They can make those calls, and everyone who disagrees with them is wrong. Fear of God acknowledges that what we do in this life MATTERS, and it still matters even if it is never discovered by others.

I wouldn't say that religion is "hard," any more than I would say that nurturing your own offspring is "hard." It's something that good people do. Being an atheist is lazy, practically and intellectually. But it does free up your Sundays.

I think the problem is you are conflating your religious beliefs with your political ones.

The ironic thing being, Jesus (if he existed) was probably a bigger socialist than Commie Bernie on his worst day.

The other problem is that you conflate morality with religion. If you are only doing the right thing because you are afraid of being punished in the afterlife, that's not morality, it's fear.

 

[Mr Natural]

Either you believe it or you don’t. It’s that simple

 

[shockedcanadian]

Assume all of the religious "articles of faith" are bullshit. All of them. Every religion. Jesus was not God, and maybe never existed. The miracles of the Torah are all made-up. Mohammad was a fraud, as was Joseph Smith. Complete the list on your own.

Now, if you are a serious person, you should consider two possible scenarios, and which one you would prefer to be true.

One scenario is that humans are just animals like cockroaches, with no more significance in The Big Picture than those nasty little insects. We are born, we live, we die. It makes no difference ultimately whether we live a virtuous life (the tenets of which are fairly easy to ascertain) or a life of evil (ditto). There are virtuous people who live a life of sacrifice, doing everything possible to help those around him, and when they die, they are - like everyone else - just DEAD. There are scoundrels who exploit every person, every thing, leaving a trail of misery throughout their lives and profiting greatly from that quest, and when they die the are similarly just DEAD. That's the end of it.

The second scenario is that what we do in life MATTERS. The former example above is rewarded in an "afterlife" with an eternity filled with some sort of reward for his virtue, and the latter example is punished (or extinguished) in the "afterlife" for his life of evil and exploitation.

Religious faith is a CHOICE. It is not something that we pray for and somehow God gives it to us for our sincere prayers. We CHOOSE to believe in a religious idiom, and follow it to the best of our ability, or we choose to believe that there is no God, no afterlife, no reward for virtue and no punishment for evil. Every part of our existence from conception to death is observable and we just live with it. And we choose (or don't choose) our particular religion or religious tradition based on our own inherent values and priorities; there is some religion for everyone if you just look for it.

I submit that being a religious person has its own rewards, and in most cases it makes us a better citizen of the world. We do not exploit other people; we are kind and generous and considerate; we contribute to our families and neighborhoods and countries; we are likely to answer the call to service by joining the Armed Forces or the local VFD, or volunteering at the local food bank, or even devoting our life in service to others.

Atheists don't do that sort of thing, unless they see some benefit for themselves. When a religious person wants to do something nice, he does something nice. When an atheist wants to do something nice, he votes for Bernie Fcuking Sanders, and depends on Bernie to do the nice things for him, with OPM.

There is an expression sometimes used by Judeo-Christians: "fear of God." It is not really fear of the Supreme Being. It is recognition that a Supreme Being exists, and He is not YOU. There is an ultimate authority out there who defines what is right and wrong, what is virtuous and evil, and you don't get a choice to make your own determinations based on what you like in the moment. Atheists believe, in effect, they they are "god." They can make those calls, and everyone who disagrees with them is wrong. Fear of God acknowledges that what we do in this life MATTERS, and it still matters even if it is never discovered by others.

I wouldn't say that religion is "hard," any more than I would say that nurturing your own offspring is "hard." It's something that good people do. Being an atheist is lazy, practically and intellectually. But it does free up your Sundays.

One experience I had in life altered my perspective of whether there is a G-d or not. Sometimes it requires such personal experiences to alter ones beliefs.

I hope all Atheists are able to experience something profound. Not because I want everyone to believe in G-d, though I am convinced moral guidance would benefit our species, but also to allow them to at least question their hedonism as it were.

The number of scientists who admit that the Big Bang theory, even in multiple permutations and alternative theories just does not hold water and the concept of a "creator" being necessary is encouraging.

I have a very logical mind mixed with a healthy dose of skepticism but still creativity and imagination. Part genetics, part upbringing/environment. As such, it allows me to easily understand why even the most hardened Atheist is as they are, see my reference to George Carlin. That is as strong a rebuke to G-d as you will see, yet, I have watched it numerous times, had a good laugh and never once felt any less convinced of faith.

What actually resonated with me is that his thinking is eerily similar to mine when I used to think of faith. When he refers to the big electron in another skit (this isn't a Carlin infomercial but i use for context) he refers to the "big electron", and acts out a sort of pulsating universe.

This could indeed be what G-d is. If one asks a scientist they may not refer to Abrahamic Religions as their source for a belief in a creator, however, they know from the fascination of their deep science and their research on the universes creation that so much in impossible to solve that they cannot accept any idea except a creator.

Who made the rules for gravity, the properties of light, physics etc? We certainty didn't. If one engages in heavy mathematical equations such as calculus and linear algebra, or coding, at least for me, it was VERY spiritual. It amazed me to the point of thinking "these concepts are so perfect, so exact and complex, yet, beautiful as a song that only a creator could be so precise".

Thus, I can see the world from the hardcore religious person who looks around at the decay and evil in society and says, "these are G-dless people" while also viewing the world through the prism of an Atheist and suggesting "G-d would not allow such creations and evil to exist".

Ultimately, with the endless universe, one has to conclude just rationally, that there must have been a beginning and end to it all. The concepts can really put the mind on blast.

 

[TNHarley]

It's something that good people do. Being an atheist is lazy, practically and intellectually.

That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.
Religious people question something, and put "god" in it. People that dont believe in god, or question his existence, accept they dont know the answer. They look for the answer. Or they wait for more inclined people to find it. They dont just fill voids with "but muh gawd"
"God" was something made up by people that understood nothing. And the religious STILL believe in that silly nonsense. Fairy tales and magic stories for adults.
THAT is lazy, practically and intellectually.

 

[ding]

That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.
Religious people question something, and put "god" in it. People that dont believe in god, or question his existence, accept they dont know the answer. They look for the answer. Or they wait for more inclined people to find it. They dont just fill voids with "but muh gawd"
"God" was something made up by people that understood nothing. And the religious STILL believe in that silly nonsense. Fairy tales and magic stories for adults.
THAT is lazy, practically and intellectually.

All you have are voids.

 

[ding]

Either you believe it or you don’t. It’s that simple

Either you have a relationship with God or you don't. Everything else is noise. You are so distracted by religion that you forgot to seek God.

 

[rightwinger]

Atheists don't do that sort of thing, unless they see some benefit for themselves. When a religious person wants to do something nice, he does something nice. When an atheist wants to do something nice, he votes for Bernie Fcuking Sanders,

When a Christian does a good act, he does it out of a fear of God or desire to be rewarded in heaven

Atheists do good things because it is the right thing to do and makes them feel good

 

[markef]

One experience I had in life altered my perspective of whether there is a G-d or not. Sometimes it requires such personal experiences to alter ones beliefs.

I hope all Atheists are able to experience something profound. Not because I want everyone to believe in G-d, though I am convinced moral guidance would benefit our species, but also to allow them to at least question their hedonism as it were.

The number of scientists who admit that the Big Bang theory, even in multiple permutations and alternative theories just does not hold water and the concept of a "creator" being necessary is encouraging.

I have a very logical mind mixed with a healthy dose of skepticism but still creativity and imagination. Part genetics, part upbringing/environment. As such, it allows me to easily understand why even the most hardened Atheist is as they are, see my reference to George Carlin. That is as strong a rebuke to G-d as you will see, yet, I have watched it numerous times, had a good laugh and never once felt any less convinced of faith.

What actually resonated with me is that his thinking is eerily similar to mine when I used to think of faith. When he refers to the big electron in another skit (this isn't a Carlin infomercial but i use for context) he refers to the "big electron", and acts out a sort of pulsating universe.

This could indeed be what G-d is. If one asks a scientist they may not refer to Abrahamic Religions as their source for a belief in a creator, however, they know from the fascination of their deep science and their research on the universes creation that so much in impossible to solve that they cannot accept any idea except a creator.

Who made the rules for gravity, the properties of light, physics etc? We certainty didn't. If one engages in heavy mathematical equations such as calculus and linear algebra, or coding, at least for me, it was VERY spiritual. It amazed me to the point of thinking "these concepts are so perfect, so exact and complex, yet, beautiful as a song that only a creator could be so precise".

Thus, I can see the world from the hardcore religious person who looks around at the decay and evil in society and says, "these are G-dless people" while also viewing the world through the prism of an Atheist and suggesting "G-d would not allow such creations and evil to exist".

Ultimately, with the endless universe, one has to conclude just rationally, that there must have been a beginning and end to it all. The concepts can really put the mind on blast.

Everyone should recognize the fact that the origin of mater and energy would have been impossible without a miracle from God.

 

[ding]

I think the problem is you are conflating your religious beliefs with your political ones.

The ironic thing being, Jesus (if he existed) was probably a bigger socialist than Commie Bernie on his worst day.

The other problem is that you conflate morality with religion. If you are only doing the right thing because you are afraid of being punished in the afterlife, that's not morality, it's fear.

So much to unpack here. Jesus taught that if you love God, you won't need rules. Loving God isn't about the afterlife, it's about living this life. Jesus taught that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. If you want to believe that makes Jesus a communist, go right ahead but it's literally the opposite of communism.

 

[TNHarley]

All you have are voids.

Pathetic, as usual.
You always want to involve yourself, but never have anything of any substance to add. Just insults. Well, and lies. You lie a lot. So you have that too.
Both characteristics are something your jesus loves, im sure.

 

[ding]

When a Christian does a good act, he does it out of a fear of God or desire to be rewarded in heaven

Incorrect. Christians are taught to love God. Not because what he can do for us or to us but because of who he is. It's not about the destination, it's about the journey. Feel free to miss out on it.

Atheists do good things because it is the right thing to do and makes them feel good

Actually atheism is predicated on the satisfaction of material needs and primitive impulses.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I can only know what is knowable. I do not pretend to know whether or not God exists.

The most humble and honest approach is a carefully measured agnosticism as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ding]

Pathetic, as usual.

You misspelled "accurate."

You always want to involve yourself, but never have anything of any substance to add. Just insults. Well, and lies. You lie a lot. So you have that too.

The truth usually hurts before it helps.

Both characteristics are something your jesus loves, im sure.

God loves truth. He is truth.