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14) The Messiah would come riding on a donkey
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Zechariah 9:9

New Testament citations: Matthew 21:1-7
 
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TNHarley

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13) The Messiah would be pierced
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Zechariah 12:10

New Testament citations: Matthew 24:30, John 19:31-37, Revelation 1:7

The correct translation for that verse is, "they will look onto Me concerning whom they have pierced and they will mourn for him"
"him" is referring to the Jewish people that die in battle
Context and proper translations mean everything.
Also, The chapter says In that day there will be a great mourning in Jerusalem like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo which obviously didnt happen for Jesus. It did however happen for other messiahs.
Straddle those misinterpretations ding! After all, its all you got! :lol:
 

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13) The Messiah would be pierced
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Zechariah 12:10

New Testament citations: Matthew 24:30, John 19:31-37, Revelation 1:7

The correct translation for that verse is, "they will look onto Me concerning whom they have pierced and they will mourn for him"
"him" is referring to the Jewish people that die in battle
Context and proper translations mean everything.
Also, The chapter says In that day there will be a great mourning in Jerusalem like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo which obviously didnt happen for Jesus. It did however happen for other messiahs.
Straddle those misinterpretations ding! After all, its all you got! :lol:
15) The Messiah would be called out of Egypt
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Hosea 11:1

New Testament citations: Matthew 2:13-15
 
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TNHarley

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14) The Messiah would come riding on a donkey
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Zechariah 9:9

New Testament citations: Matthew 21:1-7
Cant argue with that one! Only one person in history rode a donkey in Jerusalem
 

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16) The Messiah would be called God’s Son
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Psalm 2:1-12

New Testament citations: Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22, Acts 4:25-28, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 5:5
 

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17) The Messiah would be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Zechariah 11:12-13

New Testament citations: Matthew 26:14-15, Matthew 27:3, Matthew 27:9-10



 

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Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus | The difference between Judaism and Christianity (simpletoremember.com)
Interesting article. It goes into detail why Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah
1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.


B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David! (2)

a) There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption;

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus’ birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

Many more at link
What do the Christians say to this article?
The only argument i can come up with is, "jews have their own religion wrong" :dunno:
The other problem is, Moshiach brings us to Torah's ethos and condemns pagan ideologies, so for a character created by Rome or any figures in that image used for that persona to be Moshiach, it would need to bring the flock towards the Torah and Judaic precepts not towards Rome's mix of cultural ideas and pagan beliefs and precepts.
The Hanotzrim cult believed god was the mystical rays of light between the sun and earth and in underworld teachings of the Egyptians, Rome was full of sun cult mythologies and Greek death cult precepts, so merging the cultures with the messianic cult was easy, but that is not God nor OLAM HABAH described in Judaic teachings.
 

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18) The Messiah would be the Son of Man
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Daniel 7:13-14

New Testament citations: Matthew 9:6, Matthew 12:8, Matthew 13:41, Matthew 16:13, Matthew 16:27, Mark 8:31, Luke 6:22, Luke 9:22, John 1:51, John 3:13-14, Acts 7:56 and many others

TNHarley
 

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Christianity was created in large part by a Man who persecuted Jesus' followers while Jesus was alive.

Jesus was, and did not claim to be anything BUT Jewish.

The way I look at it us that if people were to just read the red letters and ignore the rest, then they would be on to something good no matter what they called themselves.
 

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Christianity was created in large part by a Man who persecuted Jesus' followers while Jesus was alive.

Jesus was, and did not claim to be anything BUT Jewish.

The way I look at it us that if people were to just read the red letters and ignore the rest, then they would be on to something good no matter what they called themselves.

I've always thought it was bizarre for people to claim Christianity wasn't Jewish, when Jesus himself was a Jew, as were Mathew, Mark, and John, with Luke the Gentile himself a follower of a Pharisee no less, and almost the entire four Gospels and Jesus 's ministry were directed at Jews and they preached from synagogues early on. Contrary to the fantasies of post-exilic Babylonian Jews and 2nd Century A.D. delusions Jews were never some chosen master race, that's a fiction cherished by Hasidim, Orthodox, and ultra-Orthodox cultists. They were a fairly broad minded tribal confederacy who openly welcomed others into their culture and religion. They only became a nutjob cult after Ezra and the Babylonian Jews set themselves up as the only ' pure Jews' with the aid of Cyrus.
 
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you subject to Torah? Do you sacrifice animals and stone women to death? Or can you find some Levites who will do that for you?

The scribes and Pharisees abided their law, as Jesus knew they would until its demise (Mt 5:18). Therefore abiding that law was the least his apostles should do as well, for they were more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees. The apostles abided it until the end
Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.

Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
 

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Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.
Ethnic Israel was subject to temple laws, which included laws regarding animal sacrifice. The temple’s jurisdiction extended only to ethnic Israel. The Mosaic Law was Israel’s law.

The Bible divides history into three ages, essentially. In the Adamic Age, mankind forsook God and fell from grace, and so wandered in the wilderness. In the Abrahamic Age, mankind, who would call itself Israel, attempted to reconcile with God through tabernacle and temple. In the Christian Age, Israel finally did reconcile with God through their Messiah.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
In the first century, as the temple's days were numbered, ethnic Israel was becoming a heavenly Israel (or heaveny Jerusalem), as Paul and others called it, and this new, heavenly Israel reconciled with God not through temple or territory but merely through relationship, merely through Spirit, as was the case in the garden. No temple, no ritual, no edicts committed to animal skins. That’s what the Pharisees feared about Jesus (and Paul); they and their forebears invested Israel’s hope in temple and territory. Jesus said their hope was in God. The hope of Israel (resurrection) was not in the flesh; it was in the Spirit. This threatened the teaching and authority of the temple hierarchy, so they had Jesus killed.
 
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ESay

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Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.
Ethnic Israel was subject to temple laws, which included laws regarding animal sacrifice. The temple’s jurisdiction extended only to ethnic Israel. The Mosaic Law was Israel’s law.

The Bible divides history into three ages, essentially. In the Adamic Age, mankind forsook God and fell from grace, and so wandered in the wilderness. In the Abrahamic Age, mankind, who would call itself Israel, attempted to reconcile with God through tabernacle and temple. In the Christian Age, Israel finally did reconcile with God through their Messiah.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
In the first century, as the temple's days were numbered, ethnic Israel was becoming a heavenly Israel (or heaveny Jerusalem), as Paul and others called it, and this new, heavenly Israel reconciled with God not through temple or territory but merely through relationship, merely through Spirit, as was the case in the garden. No temple, no ritual, no edicts committed to animal skins. That’s what the Pharisees feared about Jesus (and Paul); they and their forebears invested Israel’s hope in temple and territory. Jesus said their hope was in God. The hope of Israel (resurrection) was not in the flesh; it was in the Spirit. This threatened the teaching and authority of the temple hierarchy, so they had Jesus killed.
Yes, the law was given to Israel and there are certain commandments which were given specifically to the Jews. And some of them can be fulfilled only in the Land of Israel.

But I dont agree with the division of human history on three ages. I don't know how it corresponds with Jewish teaching, though.

The universal commandments were given to Noah for all humankind. And if we are talking about the stages, I think that we should be only on the first stage.
 

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Where was the 'interesting' part? All I saw was a bunch of half-assed false claims that were all thoroughly rebutted by the 11th Century, and most long before that, around 40 A.D. Not as hilarious as the '6,000 Errors' nobody can list or prove they exist at all but insist Xians have to splain them to tards who never read any of the bible books.
If you study Tanach, the New Testament is chock full of errors.
 

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Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.
Ethnic Israel was subject to temple laws, which included laws regarding animal sacrifice. The temple’s jurisdiction extended only to ethnic Israel. The Mosaic Law was Israel’s law.

The Bible divides history into three ages, essentially. In the Adamic Age, mankind forsook God and fell from grace, and so wandered in the wilderness. In the Abrahamic Age, mankind, who would call itself Israel, attempted to reconcile with God through tabernacle and temple. In the Christian Age, Israel finally did reconcile with God through their Messiah.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
In the first century, as the temple's days were numbered, ethnic Israel was becoming a heavenly Israel (or heaveny Jerusalem), as Paul and others called it, and this new, heavenly Israel reconciled with God not through temple or territory but merely through relationship, merely through Spirit, as was the case in the garden. No temple, no ritual, no edicts committed to animal skins. That’s what the Pharisees feared about Jesus (and Paul); they and their forebears invested Israel’s hope in temple and territory. Jesus said their hope was in God. The hope of Israel (resurrection) was not in the flesh; it was in the Spirit. This threatened the teaching and authority of the temple hierarchy, so they had Jesus killed.
animal sacrifice

I take it you're a vegetarian.
 

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Its hard to argue with scripture. Buuuuuuuuut Christians do.
Yes, they sure do. They try so desperately to make the New Testament jibe with the Old (which it does, to be sure, but not as an addendum).

One can think of Jesus's ministry as a return to 'original intent' of the written Torah, before the Babylonian Scam backed by Cyrus rewrote the original Hebrew theology to suit themselves and line their pockets.
I'm not sure I would call Torah the original intent. Torah came long after the original creation, and was just written code that did not change the heart of man. For Christians, codification is unnecessary, as we read in Galatians Chapter 5 (and in Romans), because in the heart of the believer resides the Holy Spirit and the fulfillment of the Law.

The written Torah is the books of Moses; Jesus entire ministry was based on the Torah, so yes, it's critical to Christianity as well. When Jesus is criticizing the Pharisees it is over their obsession with 'The Law' over the meaning of the spirit and intent; the Pharisees and rabbinical Judaism obsess over the Mishnahs and Talmud, the 'Oral Torah', a fabrication that began with the Babylonians return and culminated in the invention of rabbinical Judaism some 100 years or so after the events in the Gospels; Christianity is older than rabbinical Judaism.
Well, Torah is not for me; I'm not of the house of Israel. Who is, right? It was Israel's law; only Israel was subject to it. And even if I were of that house, I wouldn't be now; that law burned up in the fire.

Are you subject to Torah? Do you sacrifice animals and stone women to death? Or can you find some Levites who will do that for you?

The scribes and Pharisees abided their law, as Jesus knew they would until its demise (Mt 5:18). Therefore abiding that law was the least his apostles should do as well, for they were more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees. The apostles abided it until the end.

Gentiles aren't required to follow Jewish laws, and the Temple was destroyed. Whether or not you like the Torah, it is part of Christian theology and much of Jesus's teachings derive from it. The Talmud rubbish is a different story; Jews aren't required to follow the Oral Torah either.; it's a fabrication, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary. The only Torah is the one of Moses, and it is complete as written, as he also stated clearly.
Gentiles are required to follow Noachide laws.
 

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Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus | The difference between Judaism and Christianity (simpletoremember.com)
Interesting article. It goes into detail why Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah
1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.


B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David! (2)

a) There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption;

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus’ birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

Many more at link
What do the Christians say to this article?
The only argument i can come up with is, "jews have their own religion wrong" :dunno:
LOL they try to spin what "almah" means :lol:
1) The Messiah would be resurrected
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Psalm 16:8-11

New Testament citations: Acts 13:35-37
That was about David finding out he will live forever through god, is it not?


2) The Messiah would bring in a new covenant
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Jeremiah 31:31

New Testament citations: Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:20, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24
There are about 17 covenants in Scripture which have nothing to do with with changing Torah.
 

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14) The Messiah would come riding on a donkey
Hebrew Scriptures reference: Zechariah 9:9

New Testament citations: Matthew 21:1-7
Which of the 12 Tribes is described as a donkey carrying it's load?
What is that Tribe's load?
For someone who's into allegory, you really missed this one.
Check out where Yaakov blesses his sons.
 

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Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.
Ethnic Israel was subject to temple laws, which included laws regarding animal sacrifice. The temple’s jurisdiction extended only to ethnic Israel. The Mosaic Law was Israel’s law.

The Bible divides history into three ages, essentially. In the Adamic Age, mankind forsook God and fell from grace, and so wandered in the wilderness. In the Abrahamic Age, mankind, who would call itself Israel, attempted to reconcile with God through tabernacle and temple. In the Christian Age, Israel finally did reconcile with God through their Messiah.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
In the first century, as the temple's days were numbered, ethnic Israel was becoming a heavenly Israel (or heaveny Jerusalem), as Paul and others called it, and this new, heavenly Israel reconciled with God not through temple or territory but merely through relationship, merely through Spirit, as was the case in the garden. No temple, no ritual, no edicts committed to animal skins. That’s what the Pharisees feared about Jesus (and Paul); they and their forebears invested Israel’s hope in temple and territory. Jesus said their hope was in God. The hope of Israel (resurrection) was not in the flesh; it was in the Spirit. This threatened the teaching and authority of the temple hierarchy, so they had Jesus killed.
Yes, the law was given to Israel and there are certain commandments which were given specifically to the Jews. And some of them can be fulfilled only in the Land of Israel.

But I dont agree with the division of human history on three ages. I don't know how it corresponds with Jewish teaching, though.

The universal commandments were given to Noah for all humankind. And if we are talking about the stages, I think that we should be only on the first stage.
Christians are back where humankind was in the beginning. They fellowship with God; they don't worship idols.
 

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