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Indeependent

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animal sacrifice

I take it you're a vegetarian.
I don't sacrifice animals to God. I sacrifice them for my pleasure.
Of the dozen or so offerings in the Temple, none of them were for committing an intentional sin, most of them were not offered for committing an unintentional sin and most of them were for eating and sharing with others who wanted to visit the Temple.
I know Leviticus is not easy to read but it's embarrassing that Christians never read it al all.
 

Indeependent

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Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.
Ethnic Israel was subject to temple laws, which included laws regarding animal sacrifice. The temple’s jurisdiction extended only to ethnic Israel. The Mosaic Law was Israel’s law.

The Bible divides history into three ages, essentially. In the Adamic Age, mankind forsook God and fell from grace, and so wandered in the wilderness. In the Abrahamic Age, mankind, who would call itself Israel, attempted to reconcile with God through tabernacle and temple. In the Christian Age, Israel finally did reconcile with God through their Messiah.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
In the first century, as the temple's days were numbered, ethnic Israel was becoming a heavenly Israel (or heaveny Jerusalem), as Paul and others called it, and this new, heavenly Israel reconciled with God not through temple or territory but merely through relationship, merely through Spirit, as was the case in the garden. No temple, no ritual, no edicts committed to animal skins. That’s what the Pharisees feared about Jesus (and Paul); they and their forebears invested Israel’s hope in temple and territory. Jesus said their hope was in God. The hope of Israel (resurrection) was not in the flesh; it was in the Spirit. This threatened the teaching and authority of the temple hierarchy, so they had Jesus killed.
Yes, the law was given to Israel and there are certain commandments which were given specifically to the Jews. And some of them can be fulfilled only in the Land of Israel.

But I dont agree with the division of human history on three ages. I don't know how it corresponds with Jewish teaching, though.

The universal commandments were given to Noah for all humankind. And if we are talking about the stages, I think that we should be only on the first stage.
Christians are back where humankind was in the beginning. They fellowship with God; they don't worship idols.
What do you call the Internet, booze sports, fancy cars, etc...?
 

Indeependent

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What do you call the Internet, booze sports, fancy cars, etc...?
Hobbies
It depends on how far a hobby will push you?
How much does one give to charity as opposed to spending thousands of dollars a year on a hobby?
Does the hobby make you forget about God for hours at a time.

And what does this have to do with the fact that you know nothing about the purpose of the Temple?
 

norwegen

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What do you call the Internet, booze sports, fancy cars, etc...?
Hobbies
It depends on how far a hobby will push you?
How much does one give to charity as opposed to spending thousands of dollars a year on a hobby?
Does the hobby make you forget about God for hours at a time.

And what does this have to do with the fact that you know nothing about the purpose of the Temple?
This thread is about reconciling Old Testament prophecies with the New Testament. If you're ignoring the New Testament, then you're really not completely in on this discussion.
 

ESay

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Sacrifices of animals are possible only in the Temple which is destroyed now. Capital punishment is virtually impossible to do upon the rules described in Talmud. That is as far as I know.
Ethnic Israel was subject to temple laws, which included laws regarding animal sacrifice. The temple’s jurisdiction extended only to ethnic Israel. The Mosaic Law was Israel’s law.

The Bible divides history into three ages, essentially. In the Adamic Age, mankind forsook God and fell from grace, and so wandered in the wilderness. In the Abrahamic Age, mankind, who would call itself Israel, attempted to reconcile with God through tabernacle and temple. In the Christian Age, Israel finally did reconcile with God through their Messiah.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they turned the faith into the source of their enrichment and paying too much attention to an external side of the faith. The way the most Christan churches do now, frankly speaking.
In the first century, as the temple's days were numbered, ethnic Israel was becoming a heavenly Israel (or heaveny Jerusalem), as Paul and others called it, and this new, heavenly Israel reconciled with God not through temple or territory but merely through relationship, merely through Spirit, as was the case in the garden. No temple, no ritual, no edicts committed to animal skins. That’s what the Pharisees feared about Jesus (and Paul); they and their forebears invested Israel’s hope in temple and territory. Jesus said their hope was in God. The hope of Israel (resurrection) was not in the flesh; it was in the Spirit. This threatened the teaching and authority of the temple hierarchy, so they had Jesus killed.
Yes, the law was given to Israel and there are certain commandments which were given specifically to the Jews. And some of them can be fulfilled only in the Land of Israel.

But I dont agree with the division of human history on three ages. I don't know how it corresponds with Jewish teaching, though.

The universal commandments were given to Noah for all humankind. And if we are talking about the stages, I think that we should be only on the first stage.
Christians are back where humankind was in the beginning. They fellowship with God; they don't worship idols.
That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
 

Indeependent

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What do you call the Internet, booze sports, fancy cars, etc...?
Hobbies
It depends on how far a hobby will push you?
How much does one give to charity as opposed to spending thousands of dollars a year on a hobby?
Does the hobby make you forget about God for hours at a time.

And what does this have to do with the fact that you know nothing about the purpose of the Temple?
This thread is about reconciling Old Testament prophecies with the New Testament. If you're ignoring the New Testament, then you're really not completely in on this discussion.
Then everyone should stop commenting on the Temple service.
The fact is that the NT makes a big issue of the Temple being gone and not needs anymore because Yeshu died for your sins, but that was not the essential purpose of the Temple.
There are so many errors in the NT that you won't see them until you start at Genesis 1:1 and finish the whole Tanach.
 

norwegen

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
 

Indeependent

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Do you know what the word "Grace", from the Hebrew, "Chane", means and why Noach found Chane in God's "eyes"?
 

ESay

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
 

Indeependent

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
 

norwegen

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
The temple age ended. That's a theme that runs through the New Testament (and is foretold in the Old).
 

ESay

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
 

norwegen

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
I'm a Christian, and Christians should know that the temple is rebuilt, and with a new law and a new priesthood.

So, no.
 

ESay

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
I'm a Christian, and Christians should know that the temple is rebuilt, and with a new law and a new priesthood.

So, no.
I dont consider myself a Christian. I dont get that idea of Jesus' deification. But what I agree with is that no physical Temple is needed. There should be the Temple of the Spirit. Similar view was held by the sect of the Essens, iirc.
 

Indeependent

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
Let me ask you a question...
Will you still eat meat when God reveals Himself?
By the way, the word Korbahn does not mean Sacrifice, it means to Be Close To.

When someone buys an animal in the Temple, it takes a few hundred people to eat it.
The Temple is a restaurant that brings together people from different backgrounds to enjoy a meal together and allows each person to appreciate others.
 

Indeependent

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
I'm a Christian, and Christians should know that the temple is rebuilt, and with a new law and a new priesthood.

So, no.
I dont consider myself a Christian. I dont get that idea of Jesus' deification. But what I agree with is that no physical Temple is needed. There should be the Temple of the Spirit. Similar view was held by the sect of the Essens, iirc.
An absence of a Temple sure has civilized mankind!
 

norwegen

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
Let me ask you a question...
Will you still eat meat when God reveals Himself?
By the way, the word Korbahn does not mean Sacrifice, it means to Be Close To.

When someone buys an animal in the Temple, it takes a few hundred people to eat it.
The Temple is a restaurant that brings together people from different backgrounds to enjoy a meal together and allows each person to appreciate others.
God has revealed Himself, and I'm eating a burger as I type.
 

ESay

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
Let me ask you a question...
Will you still eat meat when God reveals Himself?
By the way, the word Korbahn does not mean Sacrifice, it means to Be Close To.

When someone buys an animal in the Temple, it takes a few hundred people to eat it.
The Temple is a restaurant that brings together people from different backgrounds to enjoy a meal together and allows each person to appreciate others.
Yes, it seems I will. Though, some people think that humankind will return to vegetarianism as it was (presumably) before Noah.

Well, I understand the importance of such 'communion'. But it can be reached by other means, I think. Though, I would understand if the Temple was rebuilt as a center of religious study and education. But it wouldn't be a 'temple' in a strict sense of the word.
 

Indeependent

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That depends on what can be considered as idols - Mary, saints, icons so on. Actually, Judaism and Islam have more strong ground in this regard now that Christianity.
I don't know what you just said here; Catholics are idolaters? I don't care; I'm not Catholic.

But I know that after man's fall from grace, the obedience/disobedience dichotomy runs throughout the Old Testament. The Israelites were constantly tempted and led astray by idols and the secret arts. That all ended when the temple fell.

In Christ, people don't worship idols; they worship God.
Not only the Catholics. The Orthodox churches too.

What ended? All the Jews now are abiding by God's commandment? Something tells me that is not the case.
It is impossible for all Jews to abide by God's commandments because, for example, I am not a Kohain, I don't live in Israel and there's no King or Temple.
Women are exempt from positive commandments.
And more.
That was not exactly the point I was answering to. But okay.

Do you think animal sacrifices should be restored when the Temple is rebuilt?
Let me ask you a question...
Will you still eat meat when God reveals Himself?
By the way, the word Korbahn does not mean Sacrifice, it means to Be Close To.

When someone buys an animal in the Temple, it takes a few hundred people to eat it.
The Temple is a restaurant that brings together people from different backgrounds to enjoy a meal together and allows each person to appreciate others.
Yes, it seems I will. Though, some people think that humankind will return to vegetarianism as it was (presumably) before Noah.

Well, I understand the importance of such 'communion'. But it can be reached by other means, I think. Though, I would understand if the Temple was rebuilt as a center of religious study and education. But it wouldn't be a 'temple' in a strict sense of the word.
Prayer services were, and will be, held at the Temple.
 

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