Interesting article on muslims in america

[ninja007]

Do you realize what those cites actually say? They say that Christians and Jews can practice their religions as long as they comply with sharia law. Sharia law in is direct conflict with every religion except islam. So, once again, you are wrong.

What do we do in the US when religious practices conflict with the law?

The US does not have a system of law that is based on a religion. US law allows for the practice of all religions as long as those practices do not violate civil law. Beheading for instance is illegal, stoning is illegal, genital mutilation of little girls is illegal. BUT, those 3 practices are legal under sharia law.

Do you get it now?

So a Muslim in America simply has to comply with our laws like anyone else.

Like Kim Davis does, for instance, no matter what she might think her religion entitles her to do...

Yes, they do. But in order to comply with American law they must reject the parts of the Koran that require them to follow sharia law. Said another way, a muslim can only be a law abiding American if he/she rejects Islamic teachings.

this is not complicated, except for a biased, prejudiced mind like yours.

How is that any different than Christians rejecting the parts of the Bible that require the application of Mosaic law? Or Jews rejecting portions of their law?

For example, in capital punishment:

Sekila - stoning​

• • his was performed by pushing a person off a height of at least 2 stories. If the person didn't die, then the executioners (the witnesses) brought a rock that was so large that it took both of them to lift it; this was placed on the condemned person to crush them.[citation needed]
• Serefah - burning
  • This was done by melting lead, and pouring it down the throat of the condemned person.
• Hereg - decapitation
  • This is also known as "being put to the sword" (beheading).
• Chenek - strangulation
  • A rope was wound around the condemned person's neck, and the executioners (the witnesses) pulled from either side to strangle the condemned person.

Capital sins separated by the four types of capital punishment
The following is a list by Maimonides in his Mishneh Torah (Hilchoth Sanhedrin Chapter 15) of which crimes carry a capital punishment.

Punishment by Sekila (stoning)
See also: Stoning § In Judaism

• Intercourse between a man and his mother.
• Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother).
• Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law.
• Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage.
• Intercourse between two men.
• Bestiality.
• Cursing the name of God in God's name.
• Idol Worship.
• Giving one's progeny to Molech (child sacrifice).
• Necromantic Sorcery.
• Pythonic Sorcery.
• Attempting to convince another to worship idols.
• Instigating a community to worship idols.
• Witchcraft.
• Violating the Sabbath.
• Cursing one's own parent.
• A stubborn and rebellious son.

Punishment by Serefah (burning)

• The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery.
• Intercourse between a man and his daughter.
• Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter.
• Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter.
• Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter).
• Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter.
• Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter.
• Intercourse between a man and his mother in law.
• Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother.
• Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother.

Punishment by Hereg (beheading)

• Unlawful premeditated murder.
• Being a member of a city that has gone astray.

Punishment by Chenek (strangulation)

• Committing adultery with another man's wife, where it doesn't fall under the above criteria.
• Wounding one's own parent.
• Kidnapping another member of Israel.
• Prophesizing falsely.
• Prophesizing in the name of other deities.
• A sage who is guilty of insubordination in front of the grand court in the Chamber of the Hewn Stone.

Christians are not under the OT LAW. That was done away with when Jesus came died and rose again.

 

[Claudette]

Sure they can be good Americans.

As long as being a good American doesn't get in the way of their religion.

No different than Christian fundamentalist extremists.

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

 

[Seawytch]

Sure they can be good Americans.

As long as being a good American doesn't get in the way of their religion.

No different than Christian fundamentalist extremists.

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

 

[Claudette]

Sure they can be good Americans.

As long as being a good American doesn't get in the way of their religion.

No different than Christian fundamentalist extremists.

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

Since the Christian extremists will never be as brutal as the Muslim brand, your point it moot.

 

[Seawytch]

Sure they can be good Americans.

As long as being a good American doesn't get in the way of their religion.

No different than Christian fundamentalist extremists.

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

Since the Christian extremists will never be as brutal as the Muslim brand, your point it moot.

No, it isn't and you're proving it more each time. Religious extremism is religious extremism. Same whore, different dress is all.

 

[Redfish]

The point, which you libs have so much trouble understanding, is that someone who follows muslim law and obeys the teachings of the Koran cannot follow and obey US law because the two are in direct conflict in many areas.

The Presbyterian Church now accepts and recognizes same sex marriage. Does that mean Presbyterians are no longer Christians?

That's up to God to decide, not me.

So you're only the decider when it comes to defining a Muslim.

lol, classic.

Never said that. You are the one claiming to know who is a true muslim and what muslims believe and practice.

I only post what I know to be true from life experience and/or reading and studying the topic being discussed.

Have you ever lived, worked in, or visited a muslim country?

Liar. You have said exactly that. You have claimed unequivocally that being a Muslim and being an American are incompatible.

What I said is that strict compliance with muslim doctrine is incompatible with the US system of law and the US constitution.

What you are trying to say is that no muslims living in the USA comply with muslim doctrine. That is not only false, it is naïve.

 

[Redfish]

Here is who Redfish says are not real Americans

View attachment 58097

View attachment 58098

Just more of Redfish's continued war on Religion in the United States.

muslims have died in service to the USA, no one ever said otherwise.

the Ft Hood murderer was a practicing muslim in the US Army.

Tell us what your multitude of Muslim friends say about Islamist extremism.

Go look at polls of ameican muslims and see what % of them think that suicide bombing and murder of non-muslims is acceptable. Then come back and we will talk.

 

[Redfish]

The point, which you libs have so much trouble understanding, is that someone who follows muslim law and obeys the teachings of the Koran cannot follow and obey US law because the two are in direct conflict in many areas.

So is fundamentalist Christianity.

NO its not. Unless you are calling idiots like Westboro Baptist fundamentalists. Those morons are not practicing Christianity.

Now you are also the arbiter of what is and isn't Christian?

the doctrines of Christianity and Islam are well known. They were written thousands of years ago. The Bible and the Koran can be read by anyone who is interested.

It is not up to me or you to decide. The facts are plainly written.

Then why are you presuming to know what a person has to be to be a Muslim.

Yes, because I am educated and have lived and worked in muslim countries.

 

[Claudette]

Sure they can be good Americans.

As long as being a good American doesn't get in the way of their religion.

No different than Christian fundamentalist extremists.

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

Since the Christian extremists will never be as brutal as the Muslim brand, your point it moot.

No, it isn't and you're proving it more each time. Religious extremism is religious extremism. Same whore, different dress is all.

As I said.

Let me know when the Christians start beheading, raping, burning live prisoners to death and letting Al Jazeera film it live.

Then you can make the comparison.

Doubt you will unless its only in your mind.

 

[Redfish]

Yes, they do. But in order to comply with American law they must reject the parts of the Koran that require them to follow sharia law. Said another way, a muslim can only be a law abiding American if he/she rejects Islamic teachings.

this is not complicated, except for a biased, prejudiced mind like yours.

All you're saying is that one cannot be a bonafide Muslim extremist/fundamentalist and also comply with all US laws.

All you are saying is that American muslims cannot comply with the requirements of their religion.

Do all your Muslim friends comply with the 'requirements' of Islam?

Most do, but some don't. Are you saying that all muslims living in the US do not comply with muslim doctrine?

You have Muslim friends that kill apostates? That sexually mutilate their female children?

That's really not pertinent, no one has ever said that all muslims are part of the radical terrorist groups. What I am trying to get through your thick head is that the teachings of Islam and the Koran advocate the activities that we consider as terrorism, murder, subjugation of women, and murder of gays.

What's missing is the outrage of the "good" muslims to condemn the radicals who do these things in the name of Islam.

 

[Seawytch]

No different than Christian fundamentalist extremists.

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

Since the Christian extremists will never be as brutal as the Muslim brand, your point it moot.

No, it isn't and you're proving it more each time. Religious extremism is religious extremism. Same whore, different dress is all.

As I said.

Let me know when the Christians start beheading, raping, burning live prisoners to death and letting Al Jazeera film it live.

Then you can make the comparison.

Doubt you will unless its only in your mind.

That's what it takes for you to condemn extremism? Opening fire on a planned parenthood clinic...that's not violent enough for you to condemn. Good to know.

 

[Redfish]

Here is who Redfish says are not real Americans

View attachment 58097

View attachment 58098

Just more of Redfish's continued war on Religion in the United States.

muslims have died in service to the USA, no one ever said otherwise.

the Ft Hood murderer was a practicing muslim in the US Army.

Oh very good- now you compare those who die honorably in the service of the United States- to a murderer!

Well done.

Just when I thought bigots like you couldn't get any slimier.

Americans have fought in the service of the United States- Christians- Jews- and Muslims.

You just despise Americans based upon their religion- just part of your war on religion.

Are you fricken crazy? I did no such thing. I said that muslims have died in service to the USA, I acknowledged their sacrifice for this country.

THEN, I pointed out that the Ft Hood murderer was in the US Army when he murdered his fellow soldiers in the name if islam.

 

[Redfish]

Again, you are projecting bull shit on a thread. tea bagger stuff!

Question? Can you be a good American?
Muslim's may not be good Americans but they could be good United States Citizens.

Comments?






CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?????


This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.


Can a good Muslim be a good American?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam. (Quran,2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and 'good' Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!


Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

Saudi Arabia is the classic example because it is the home of the muslim religion. But pick any muslim country that you wish, then tell us which one allows the free practice of
Christianity or Judaism. You won't find one.

If you think Christians and Jews are free to practice their faith in Iran, then I have some valuable swamp land to sell you.

Saudi Arabia is one country only - and not even the most populous. As far as recognizing, allowing free worship of other religions that varies from country to country. Even non-Muslim countries don't always allow for the free worship of non-nation recognized religion. Religious tolerance is very much a western ideal and the lack of such around the world makes it even more compelling that we fight to protect it here.

Iran has Christian and Jewish populations, who are able to practice their religion though they are subject to the same very restrictive laws as everyone else.

Indonesia allows for the free practice of state recognized religions - of which only 6 are recognized as state religions and seem to allow the free worship of a number of other minority faiths.

Tajikistan is overwhelmingly Muslim but has a tiny Christian and Jewish minority that is allowed to worship freely and the government cracks down on Islamic extremism.

Those a just a few.

Do you realize what those cites actually say? They say that Christians and Jews can practice their religions as long as they comply with sharia law. Sharia law in is direct conflict with every religion except islam. So, once again, you are wrong.

tell me specifically what I have said that is not true. Give me the quotes and then explain why you think they are not true.

Otherwise STFU and go away.

The first thing you said that was not true is that the Koran requires female circumcision.

Nope, I said that muslims practiced that form of female mutilation.

 

[Redfish]

Again, you are projecting bull shit on a thread. tea bagger stuff!

tell me specifically what I have said that is not true. Give me the quotes and then explain why you think they are not true.

Otherwise STFU and go away.

The first thing you said that was not true is that the Koran requires female circumcision.

Hard to identify the first falsehood Red has posted.

There have been so many.

He claims he has many Muslims friends in the US but he also claims you can't be a Muslim unless you're a terrorist.

So I guess he has many Muslim terrorist friends in the US.

And if he is friends with terrorists in the United States- then he is an accomplice to terrorism- and a traitor to the Untied States.

Do you libs ever tell the truth about anything? I said I have muslim friends, that is true. I said I worked in muslim countries, that is true. I never said that all muslims are terrorists or that you cannot be a muslim without being a terrorist.

This thread is about the teachings of Islam and whether they are compatible with US law. Clearly they are not.

Can a person claim to be a muslim and not follow the teachings of the Koran? That's the question for you who want to open our borders to every muslim who wants to come here.

 

[Redfish]

Again, you are projecting bull shit on a thread. tea bagger stuff!

Question? Can you be a good American?
Muslim's may not be good Americans but they could be good United States Citizens.

Saudi Arabia is one country only - and not even the most populous. As far as recognizing, allowing free worship of other religions that varies from country to country. Even non-Muslim countries don't always allow for the free worship of non-nation recognized religion. Religious tolerance is very much a western ideal and the lack of such around the world makes it even more compelling that we fight to protect it here.

Iran has Christian and Jewish populations, who are able to practice their religion though they are subject to the same very restrictive laws as everyone else.

Indonesia allows for the free practice of state recognized religions - of which only 6 are recognized as state religions and seem to allow the free worship of a number of other minority faiths.

Tajikistan is overwhelmingly Muslim but has a tiny Christian and Jewish minority that is allowed to worship freely and the government cracks down on Islamic extremism.

Those a just a few.

Do you realize what those cites actually say? They say that Christians and Jews can practice their religions as long as they comply with sharia law. Sharia law in is direct conflict with every religion except islam. So, once again, you are wrong.

tell me specifically what I have said that is not true. Give me the quotes and then explain why you think they are not true.

Otherwise STFU and go away.

The first thing you said that was not true is that the Koran requires female circumcision.

Hard to identify the first falsehood Red has posted.

There have been so many.

name one, and give us the specific quote.

 

[gipper]

All you're saying is that one cannot be a bonafide Muslim extremist/fundamentalist and also comply with all US laws.

All you are saying is that American muslims cannot comply with the requirements of their religion.

Do all your Muslim friends comply with the 'requirements' of Islam?

Most do, but some don't. Are you saying that all muslims living in the US do not comply with muslim doctrine?

You have Muslim friends that kill apostates? That sexually mutilate their female children?

That's really not pertinent, no one has ever said that all muslims are part of the radical terrorist groups. What I am trying to get through you thick head is that the teachings of Islam and the Koran advocate the activities that we consider as terrorism, murder, subjugation of women, and murder of gays.

What's missing is the outrage of the "good" muslims to condemn the radicals who do these things in the name of Islam.

Radical Islam is akin to Nazism, as practiced by Hitlers' Germany. The Left abhors Nazi Germany, as most of us do, but they can't or won't recognize the dangers of radical Islam.

As has been stated, only a handful of American Muslims are speaking out against the acts of radical Islam. Millions of Muslims are silent. One has to wonder if their silence, means concurrence.

 

[Claudette]

Yep. Just let me know when those Christian extremists kill one hundred people, chop of heads, rape, burn prisoners alive and let Al Jazeera televise it.

Get back to me on that won't you.

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

Since the Christian extremists will never be as brutal as the Muslim brand, your point it moot.

No, it isn't and you're proving it more each time. Religious extremism is religious extremism. Same whore, different dress is all.

As I said.

Let me know when the Christians start beheading, raping, burning live prisoners to death and letting Al Jazeera film it live.

Then you can make the comparison.

Doubt you will unless its only in your mind.

That's what it takes for you to condemn extremism? Opening fire on a planned parenthood clinic...that's not violent enough for you to condemn. Good to know.

The Muslim brand is much more brutal.

Murder is murder whether your an extremist or not. Murder is a long way from beheading, raping, burning prisoners alive and letting a news agency film it all.

You obviously can't see the difference. Nor do you want to.

 

[Seawytch]

Ah...so Christian extremism doesn't bear condemning until they are as violent as Muslim extremists. Interesting...

Since the Christian extremists will never be as brutal as the Muslim brand, your point it moot.

No, it isn't and you're proving it more each time. Religious extremism is religious extremism. Same whore, different dress is all.

As I said.

Let me know when the Christians start beheading, raping, burning live prisoners to death and letting Al Jazeera film it live.

Then you can make the comparison.

Doubt you will unless its only in your mind.

That's what it takes for you to condemn extremism? Opening fire on a planned parenthood clinic...that's not violent enough for you to condemn. Good to know.

The Muslim brand is much more brutal.

Murder is murder whether your an extremist or not. Murder is a long way from beheading, raping, burning prisoners alive and letting a news agency film it all.

You obviously can't see the difference. Nor do you want to.

You're right. I don't see a difference. Religious extremism is religious extremism no matter which religion it is. See, I condemn the extremism, not the religion.

 

[Unkotare]

tell me specifically what I have said that is not true. Give me the quotes and then explain why you think they are not true.

Otherwise STFU and go away.

The first thing you said that was not true is that the Koran requires female circumcision.

Hard to identify the first falsehood Red has posted.

There have been so many.

He claims he has many Muslims friends in the US but he also claims you can't be a Muslim unless you're a terrorist.

So I guess he has many Muslim terrorist friends in the US.

And if he is friends with terrorists in the United States- then he is an accomplice to terrorism- and a traitor to the Untied States.

the teachings of Islam and whether they are compatible with US law. Clearly they are not.

Is that what your Muslim friends told you?

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Again, you are projecting bull shit on a thread. tea bagger stuff!

Do you realize what those cites actually say? They say that Christians and Jews can practice their religions as long as they comply with sharia law. Sharia law in is direct conflict with every religion except islam. So, once again, you are wrong.

tell me specifically what I have said that is not true. Give me the quotes and then explain why you think they are not true.

Otherwise STFU and go away.

The first thing you said that was not true is that the Koran requires female circumcision.

Hard to identify the first falsehood Red has posted.

There have been so many.

name one, and give us the specific quote.

Your first falsehood upon opening this thread was in the title: "Interesting article on muslims in America"

You presented a chain email full of falsehoods that was at least 10 years old ONLY that sure as hell wasn't an article, putz! That was your very first falsehood for this thread and further falsehoods have cascaded over your low threshold of honesty since that starting point.