I just don't understand

[Merlin1047]

I do get rather tired of militant atheists who seem to have something akin to evangelical zeal in their insistence that we all should be atheists. What is it about prayer or a belief in God that these people find so offensive that any mention of either in a public forum sends them into a frenzy?

Apparently they do not understand the Constitution. It stipulates that the state may not establish a religion. It does not in any way prohibit the practice of religion by elected officials within government.

So here is the saga of another atheist crusader who want to banish prayer from the public arena and in the process is only succeeding in making a total ass of himself.
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http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/news/default.aspx?mid=800&cid=3291

Constitution says Amen to option of prayer at inaugurations

Newdow suit aimed at halting prayer at President Bush’s inauguration baseless

Wednesday, January 12, 2005, 4:39 PM (MST)

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz.—History as well as legal precedent clearly show that prayer at Presidential inaugurations is not unconstitutional, according to constitutional law experts at the Alliance Defense Fund.

The analysis comes on the eve of a hearing scheduled in atheist Michael Newdow’s federal lawsuit attempting to prevent President Bush from having a minister deliver an invocation at his inaugural ceremony Jan. 20.

“The Framers of the Constitution and the First Amendment engaged in prayer at official governmental ceremonies,” said ADF Senior Counsel Jordan Lorence. “George Washington was inaugurated our first president several months before the First Amendment became part of the Constitution, yet he talked about God in his first inaugural address, placed his hands on a Bible, added ‘so help me God’ to the presidential oath of office, and attended worship services as part of the inaugural activities.”

Lorence added that the First Congress, three days after approving the First Amendment, approved a paid chaplain to pray before each session of Congress. “Clearly, the Framers saw prayer as an integral part of government functions,” Lorence said.

Lorence also pointed out that the government does not force anyone to view or participate in the inaugural events. “People know what they are going to see at the Inauguration, so it should come as no surprise that someone will pray. Americans understand that throughout our nation’s history, new presidents want to ask for God’s help and guidance for our nation.”

Even though Americans differ in their religious beliefs, Lorence explained, they can unite at an inauguration around prayer. “We agree with Samuel Adams, who said that we can ‘hear a prayer from a gentleman of piety and virtue, who was at the same time a friend of his country.’”

Lorence expects Newdow or President Bush to appeal any adverse rulings to them on an emergency basis to the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., or to the U.S. Supreme Court before the Inauguration takes place at noon on Jan. 20.

 

[Shattered]

I do get rather tired of militant atheists who seem to have something akin to evangelical zeal in their insistence that we all should be atheists. What is it about prayer or a belief in God that these people find so offensive that any mention of either in a public forum sends them into a frenzy?

It's not offensive in "general".. What's offensive is when Christians start attacking you, stating that you're going to hell because you don't believe what they believe, insisting you need to be "saved", etc. A good example is when I'm at work, and a customer feels the need to pass me one of her brochures prior to walking about the door, while stating "Here's a bit of information I think you can use." Christ, woman. I'm fucking at work. Keep your god damned religion in your house, and in your heart. I don't feel it necessary to point out my religious standing to others - I feel comfortable with it inside - that's all that matters. Not all Christians behave in a "zealot-like" manner, but there are enough that do to give the majority of Christians in general a bad name.

 

[freeandfun1]

It's not offensive in "general".. What's offensive is when Christians start attacking you, stating that you're going to hell because you don't believe what they believe, insisting you need to be "saved", etc. A good example is when I'm at work, and a customer feels the need to pass me one of her brochures prior to walking about the door, while stating "Here's a bit of information I think you can use." Christ, woman. I'm fucking at work. Keep your god damned religion in your house, and in your heart. I don't feel it necessary to point out my religious standing to others - I feel comfortable with it inside - that's all that matters. Not all Christians behave in a "zealot-like" manner, but there are enough that do to give the majority of Christians in general a bad name.

not say'n that you do this, but I find it funny that most Atheists don't want Christians to promote impose their beliefs on them, yet Atheists impose their beliefs on Christians every day.

 

[Shattered]

not say'n that you do this, but I find it funny that most Atheists don't want Christians to promote impose their beliefs on them, yet Atheists impose their beliefs on Christians every day.

No, I don't do it.. Like I said.. I'm comfortable inside with what I believe (or don't believe).. But..have the common courtesy to leave your religion out of my workplace, and off of my car. Go to church..celebrate your special holidays..believe what you want to believe.. But why bother me at work, and why stick your "propaganda" to my car? Respect each persons personal space.

You don't see me ripping religious bumper stickers off your car.. Don't go adding things TO my car.

 

[no1tovote4]

No, I don't do it.. Like I said.. I'm comfortable inside with what I believe (or don't believe).. But..have the common courtesy to leave your religion out of my workplace, and off of my car. Go to church..celebrate your special holidays..believe what you want to believe.. But why bother me at work, and why stick your "propaganda" to my car? Respect each persons personal space.

You don't see me ripping religious bumper stickers off your car.. Don't go adding things TO my car.

I would stop somebody from doing that to another's vehicle. People who do things like that give the religious a bad name. Kind of like those idiots with signs at Matthew Sheppard's funeral.

 

[freeandfun1]

No, I don't do it.. Like I said.. I'm comfortable inside with what I believe (or don't believe).. But..have the common courtesy to leave your religion out of my workplace, and off of my car. Go to church..celebrate your special holidays..believe what you want to believe.. But why bother me at work, and why stick your "propaganda" to my car? Respect each persons personal space.

You don't see me ripping religious bumper stickers off your car.. Don't go adding things TO my car.

you don't do it, but there are others that do. that is all I am getting at. It is a two way street. there are radical atheists just like there are radical followers of religions.

 

[Shattered]

you don't do it, but there are others that do. that is all I am getting at. It is a two way street. there are radical atheists just like there are radical followers of religions.

I suppose my thinking is...if I have the common courtesy to not do it to you, don't do it to me..

 

[freeandfun1]

I suppose my thinking is...if I have the common courtesy to not do it to you, don't do it to me..

I think that is the common courtesy of many. Like I said, there are radical atheists too. Just keeping things in perspective. To deny that there are is... well, blind.

 

[Shattered]

I think that is the common courtesy of many. Like I said, there are radical atheists too. Just keeping things in perspective. To deny that there are is... well, blind.

Oh, I know there are radicals on both sides...but neither side seems all too willing to admit that.. It's always a "Why are they all like this?" from each side, with neither side willing to bend/give a little.

Honestly, my opinion is that those Athiests that practice thumping people over the head with their views are not truth Athiests, but are merely doing such for shock value and nothing more, because they *know* it gets a rise out of Christians.

 

[freeandfun1]

Oh, I know there are radicals on both sides...but neither side seems all too willing to admit that.. It's always a "Why are they all like this?" from each side, with neither side willing to bend/give a little.

Honestly, my opinion is that those Athiests that practice thumping people over the head with their views are not truth Athiests, but are merely doing such for shock value and nothing more, because they *know* it gets a rise out of Christians.

Well, Christians espousing hate are, in my opinion, not true Christians. So as I said, it goes both ways.

 

[Hobbit]

Well, excuse us for taking our religion everywhere, but that is an integral part of the teachings of Jesus. "Go forth into all the Earth and preach the gospel..." I apoligize for anyone who may have been militant and offensive about it, but don't expect us to just shut up about it. Think of it as a compliment, though. This person isn't trying to harass you or get you "on their side," so to speak, since there are many conflicts within the church itself. They're telling you this because they like you enough that they want to see you in heaven. Defacing your car is the wrong way to go about it, but try to put a good face on things.

 

[freeandfun1]

Furthermore, handing somebody a flyer isn't "forcing" anything on anybody. If you don't like what it says, trash it. I live in Vegas.... walk down the strip here and no matter whom you are with, somebody is going to hand you a flyer promoting escort services, strip bars, etc. The courts have ruled that is not illegal.

Again, athiests are pushing their views on us everyday. They just do it via the courts and the media. Christians typically do it one person at a time.

 

[Joz]

My very wise father felt that you did much better being an example than hitting someone over the head with a Bible.
So, if you can't SEE how I believe & I have to TELL you, I'm probably failing considerably.

 

[Shattered]

There are times and places for everything.. I don't think going into somebody's place of work is one of those times, OR places. Try to hand me something on the street, and I can refuse, and keep walking.. Corner me at work, and I'm *forced* into a position of politeness and customer service. That is NOT the way to get your point across, and that is precisely what gives you (collective) a bad name.

 

[Shattered]

My very wise father felt that you did much better being an example than hitting someone over the head with a Bible.
So, if you can't SEE how I believe & I have to TELL you, I'm probably failing considerably.

Your father was a wise man. If only everyone lived by that thinking...

 

[Merlin1047]

It's not offensive in "general".. What's offensive is when Christians start attacking you, stating that you're going to hell because you don't believe what they believe, insisting you need to be "saved", etc.

First, let me ask you - how many times have you been "attacked" by a Christian? And let's not try to equate offering you a brochure with an attack because that's ridiculous. If someone wants to hand you a brochure - no matter WHAT the subject may be, a simple "No thanks" is all it takes to get them off your back.

And let me help you out a bit here. If you are ever accosted by a Christian who is so judgemental and obnoxious that they flatly tell you that you're going to hell, there is an easy remedy for that too. Simply keep your temper in check and reply "Well, in that case, I'm sure that I'll see you there". Passing judgement on others is not a function of Christians and the Bible specifically prohibits such conduct.

A good example is when I'm at work, and a customer feels the need to pass me one of her brochures prior to walking about the door, while stating "Here's a bit of information I think you can use." Christ, woman. I'm fucking at work.

Again, I'm not sure why you find that so terribly offensive. Granted, I don't like being bothered at work, but does it compromise your integrity to accept the booklet and then dump it into the trash unread? Unfortunately, being a Christian does not assure good judgement. So consider the source.

Keep your god damned religion in your house, and in your heart.

A little inappropriate phraseology here, don't you think? Or do you feel that it is perfectly acceptable to offend Christians by characterizing their beliefs in this manner while at the same time you get all warped out of shape by someone who offered you a brochure?

I don't feel it necessary to point out my religious standing to others

Apparently, that isn't entirely a true statement. Your rather "enthusiastic" expressions in this post leave me with the distinct impression that you do in fact want others to know about your religious standing.

Not all Christians behave in a "zealot-like" manner, but there are enough that do to give the majority of Christians in general a bad name.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is an equal number of obnoxious, inconsiderate dipsticks among Christians as among atheists. Personally, I find them equally bothersome. If you find obnoxious Christians more distasteful then I would have to question your motives.

 

[Merlin1047]

Oh - and let me add a P.S. in regard to bumper stickers.

Mess with my car and we're going to have a problem. I don't give a hoot if it's the Pope himself who is trying to put a sticker on my bumper, I'm going to kick his ass.

 

[no1tovote4]

Oh - and let me add a P.S. in regard to bumper stickers.

Mess with my car and we're going to have a problem. I don't give a hoot if it's the Pope himself who is trying to put a sticker on my bumper, I'm going to kick his ass.

I have seen people at my Mother's church upset and up in arms about people putting those fish with feet on them over the bumper stickers on their cars. Militant idiots run in every aspect of our lives including the Religious Atheists. (Most are not this way, but some are just as religious and try to convert as hard as the Militant Christians.)

 

[Shattered]

First, let me ask you - how many times have you been "attacked" by a Christian? And let's not try to equate offering you a brochure with an attack because that's ridiculous. If someone wants to hand you a brochure - no matter WHAT the subject may be, a simple "No thanks" is all it takes to get them off your back.

I consider a complete stranger coming up and touching any part of my body (even if it's just to grab my arm/hand to put a brochure in it) an "attack".

And let me help you out a bit here. If you are ever accosted by a Christian who is so judgemental and obnoxious that they flatly tell you that you're going to hell, there is an easy remedy for that too. Simply keep your temper in check and reply "Well, in that case, I'm sure that I'll see you there". Passing judgement on others is not a function of Christians and the Bible specifically prohibits such conduct.

That response got old about 10 years ago.

Again, I'm not sure why you find that so terribly offensive. Granted, I don't like being bothered at work, but does it compromise your integrity to accept the booklet and then dump it into the trash unread? Unfortunately, being a Christian does not assure good judgement. So consider the source.

Because I'm at work. I'm there to do a job; not have my religious beliefs either questioned, or dictated to me. I leave personal problems at home when I walk in the door. I expect the same from my employees, as well as my customers. Perhaps I expect too much from humanity.

A little inappropriate phraseology here, don't you think? Or do you feel that it is perfectly acceptable to offend Christians by characterizing their beliefs in this manner while at the same time you get all warped out of shape by someone who offered you a brochure?

You pretty much just characterized Athiests - I merely found it appropriate to respond in kind.

Apparently, that isn't entirely a true statement. Your rather "enthusiastic" expressions in this post leave me with the distinct impression that you do in fact want others to know about your religious standing.

Are you saying that because out of the many religious discussions that take place here, my choosing to respond to a singe thread is the "need" for my views to be known? I merely thought it was for simple discussion - I didn't create the thread; nor would I have. You did.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is an equal number of obnoxious, inconsiderate dipsticks among Christians as among atheists. Personally, I find them equally bothersome. If you find obnoxious Christians more distasteful then I would have to question your motives.

I don't find them any more distasteful than obnoxious Athiests. However, you chose to post about obnoxious Athiests; I merely responded in defense, stating that altough your post gives the impression otherwise, they're not *all* like that. Anyone who goes through life trying to force another to bend to their will is a disgrace, IMO.

 

[Shattered]

Oh - and let me add a P.S. in regard to bumper stickers.

Mess with my car and we're going to have a problem. I don't give a hoot if it's the Pope himself who is trying to put a sticker on my bumper, I'm going to kick his ass.

Ahh.. Finally something we can fully agree on.