I just don't understand

[Avatar4321]

Keep your god damned religion in your house, and in your heart.

This is the major part of what I took issue with. We dont have to keep our religion in our homes. Its part of our everyday life. And the whole point of the first amendment is that we dont have to just keep our religion at home. People who live their faith dont compartamentalize their life. their religion is a core part of their life.

You arent attacked just by having someone share themselves with you. When you are mobbed for your beliefs than you can talk about being attacked or having it forced on you.

 

[Shattered]

This is the major part of what I took issue with. We dont have to keep our religion in our homes. Its part of our everyday life. And the whole point of the first amendment is that we dont have to just keep our religion at home. People who live their faith dont compartamentalize their life. their religion is a core part of their life.

You arent attacked just by having someone share themselves with you. When you are mobbed for your beliefs than you can talk about being attacked or having it forced on you.

Are your beliefs any less strong if you don't physically vocalize them during inopportune times? I wouldn't think so... Someone explain the "need" to corner someone while they're at work to me... I was just basically told to "suck it up and accept the brochure and throw it away".. Why should *I* be the one to continually "suck it up"? Why can't "you" (again, collective) suck it up and keep the brochure in your purse?

 

[no1tovote4]

Are your beliefs any less strong if you don't physically vocalize them during inopportune times? I wouldn't think so... Someone explain the "need" to corner someone while they're at work to me... I was just basically told to "suck it up and accept the brochure and throw it away".. Why should *I* be the one to continually "suck it up"? Why can't "you" (again, collective) suck it up and keep the brochure in your purse?

Because they have the right of Free Expression of the religion. Of course a Private institution could ban such things from the workplace if they wish but it can't be against the law for them to give you the things.

 

[Shattered]

Because they have the right of Free Expression of the religion. Of course a Private institution could ban such things from the workplace if they wish but it can't be against the law for them to give you the things.

Hmm.. We have a sign that clearly states "No solicitations of any kind".. That's a form of solicitation in my mind.. Maybe I can have them fined and/or thrown in jail.

Seriously, if I'm expected to suck it up and deal with it politely, I shouldn't be condemned for my views on this particular thread.. Mine should be just as acceptable as anyone elses.

 

[freeandfun1]

on another site I visit, which is for one of my old units, the wives and family members of soldiers in Iraq are reporting that their "I support the Troops" yellow ribbons keep getting taken off their vehicles. A few have left notes saying some nasty things. sad ain't it?

 

[Shattered]

on another site I visit, which is for one of my old units, the wives and family members of soldiers in Iraq are reporting that their "I support the Troops" yellow ribbons keep getting taken off their vehicles. A few have left notes saying some nasty things. sad ain't it?

Mine were stolen off my car (all 3 of them) the day after elections..

 

[Avatar4321]

Are your beliefs any less strong if you don't physically vocalize them during inopportune times? I wouldn't think so... Someone explain the "need" to corner someone while they're at work to me... I was just basically told to "suck it up and accept the brochure and throw it away".. Why should *I* be the one to continually "suck it up"? Why can't "you" (again, collective) suck it up and keep the brochure in your purse?

What makes work an opportune time? You? Are you saying youd be open to it if they stopped you on the street or knocked on your door? From what Ive read you seem to think they shouldnt be speaking out at all? Why should we be quiet because you dont want to tolerate it? If you dont want to listen to them just tell the people you arent interested. end of story. I see no need why anyone should shut up about anything thats important to them just because you dont want to listen. They have a right to speak and you have a right to ignore them. thats the beauty of this nation.

 

[no1tovote4]

Hmm.. We have a sign that clearly states "No solicitations of any kind".. That's a form of solicitation in my mind.. Maybe I can have them fined and/or thrown in jail.

Seriously, if I'm expected to suck it up and deal with it politely, I shouldn't be condemned for my views on this particular thread.. Mine should be just as acceptable as anyone elses.

Oh I understand your view fully, but if your employer allows it there is almost nothing that you can do.

 

[Shattered]

What makes work an opportune time? You? Are you saying youd be open to it if they stopped you on the street or knocked on your door? From what Ive read you seem to think they shouldnt be speaking out at all? Why should we be quiet because you dont want to tolerate it? If you dont want to listen to them just tell the people you arent interested. end of story. I see no need why anyone should shut up about anything thats important to them just because you dont want to listen. They have a right to speak and you have a right to ignore them. thats the beauty of this nation.

I trust, then, that should I want to, it would be perfectly acceptable for me to talk in to your place of work, and hold a seance? (Not something I practice, but you get the point...as it would be part of a specific "religion", and all are acceptable).

 

[Shattered]

Oh I understand your view fully, but if your employer allows it there is almost nothing that you can do.

I'm the boss.. I don't throw a fit about it (vocally) because I wish to maintain an air of professionalism. Money for the company is still money for the company.. But it damn well grates on my nerves.. To find *another* of said brochures on my car when I leave work on the same day just frosts my cookies even MORE.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm the boss.. I don't throw a fit about it (vocally) because I wish to maintain an air of professionalism. Money for the company is still money for the company.. But it damn well grates on my nerves.. To find *another* of said brochures on my car when I leave work on the same day just frosts my cookies even MORE.

At least it isn't permanent. They never realize that it is actually working against what they are trying to do...

 

[Shattered]

At least it isn't permanent. They never realize that it is actually working against what they are trying to do...

Knowing my luck, I'd get a $500 littering ticket if I just throw it on the ground, too. Hmph.

 

[Mr. P]

...I see no need why anyone should shut up about anything thats important to them just because you dont want to listen. They have a right to speak and you have a right to ignore them. ...

That sort of smacks me as harassment.
Ever try an walk away from a Jehovah Witness...Their behind you like you're a dog in heat...Uncalled for.

 

[Merlin1047]

I'm the boss.. I don't throw a fit about it (vocally) because I wish to maintain an air of professionalism. Money for the company is still money for the company.. But it damn well grates on my nerves.. To find *another* of said brochures on my car when I leave work on the same day just frosts my cookies even MORE.

I could respond item by item, but I'm a bit grouchy this afternoon and I don't want to say something in a tone which I don't really intend and get you peeved at me. Not that I'm averse to getting people peeved at me - I just don't like to do it accidentally.

Believe it or not, I'm pretty quiet about my faith. I'll discuss it with anyone who cares to, but I won't try to foist my opinions on anyone. I too object to people putting their hands on me and tend to tell them in no uncertain terms to remove them.

But the reason I posted this article is that more and more atheists are becoming militant. They don't simply want to be left alone as you apparently prefer, instead they act in exactly the same manner which you find objectionable conduct from some Christians. Militant atheists want to deny others the right to pray or practice their religion in public. They claim a Constitutional basis for their position, but the fact is that there is no such thing. Matter of fact, just the opposite is true as Americans are protected from governmental interference in the practice of their religion.

I'm not denying or criticizing your beliefs. But I am getting more than a little sick of militant leftists and atheists who want to stamp out all public expression of a belief in God.

Tell you what - if you don't slap me when I mention God, I won't grab you and force a brochure into your purse.

Deal?

 

[Isaac Brock]

Hey all, I know I haven't been on awhile, but when I saw this topic, it hit a chord with me.

I remember when I was 14 years old working as a translator for the government at the Canada Games in a town far away from my parents and friends. I was in a booth at closing time all by myself. This gentleman comes up talking to me and i small-talk back innocently enough trying to be friends, but then he shifted the conversation towards my morals and what I believe. Then he told me point blank that he believe I was going to hell and then gave me this brochure which was fiery, distasteful cartoon booklet with graphic and gory pictures (i'm sure you've all seen them) and told me we would come back another day to see what I thought.

Well I, frankly, was frightened to heck. Firstly because i was 14 and away from my family. Secondly, because before this I had never really thought strongly about seeking out a change in spirituality. Two days passsed and sure enough, he did come back and I flagged security. He yelled at me, but he was taken away yelling that they were oppressing his rights and that we would all burn in hell.

My second real experience with this, was when I was hanging around at uni with my friends, two of whom were openly gay, when four men came up to them after saying a public display of affect and continued to lecture, in high voices, the sinfulness and vileness of their actions. Vile and unwarrented words like ***, fudgepacker, etc were thrown around. Campus cops, luckily were right by and escorted the 4 gentleman away. Again with the screaming of violation of rights and you'll burn in hell sinners... etc.

This is not preaching the gospel. This is not showing me the way. This is not love. These are predatory practices, not acts of grace. Closer to home, I have seen some statements on this board that disgust me in the same way and have come accross as poor ambasadors for their faith.

That being said, I have many more examples of great acts by Christians that made me reflect and say, "Wow, they do practice what they preach.". I think Joz's dad said it so eloquently in her post.

My very wise father felt that you did much better being an example than hitting someone over the head with a Bible.
So, if you can't SEE how I believe & I have to TELL you, I'm probably failing considerably.

The point is I respect your religion deeply, and I know that this is what Shattered is getting at, but there is very much a right way and wrong way to show the love of one's faith to other's.

 

[Shattered]

I could respond item by item, but I'm a bit grouchy this afternoon and I don't want to say something in a tone which I don't really intend and get you peeved at me. Not that I'm averse to getting people peeved at me - I just don't like to do it accidentally.

Believe it or not, I'm pretty quiet about my faith. I'll discuss it with anyone who cares to, but I won't try to foist my opinions on anyone. I too object to people putting their hands on me and tend to tell them in no uncertain terms to remove them.

But the reason I posted this article is that more and more atheists are becoming militant. They don't simply want to be left alone as you apparently prefer, instead they act in exactly the same manner which you find objectionable conduct from some Christians. Militant atheists want to deny others the right to pray or practice their religion in public. They claim a Constitutional basis for their position, but the fact is that there is no such thing. Matter of fact, just the opposite is true as Americans are protected from governmental interference in the practice of their religion.

I'm not denying or criticizing your beliefs. But I am getting more than a little sick of militant leftists and atheists who want to stamp out all public expression of a belief in God.

Tell you what - if you don't slap me when I mention God, I won't grab you and force a brochure into your purse.

Deal?

LMAO!! Deal.

I do agree that the "Constitutional" argument is bullshit, however. I guess it's more that I never insulted someone for their beliefs, yet some have no qualms about not returning the favor...

*shrug*

 

[freeandfun1]

See, here it is being done again. Others are pointing out how atheists push their views on believers of whatever religion, yet the discussion is leaning toward asserting that when Christians do it, it is more harmful than when atheists do it.

Christians are not wrong for letting it be known they are believers, just as atheists are not wrong for letting others know that they are not believers. However, when we start acting as if one's actions are worse than the other's, we are, in essence, doing exactly what we are complaining about.

Again, both sides are guilty of pushing their beliefs to some extent. Sure, there are more Christians in the world, so you will therefore, naturally, have more (in numbers) "radical" Christians pushing their beliefs. However, on a per capita basis, I would venture a pretty accurate guess that the atheists are far more "pushy".

 

[Shattered]

See, here it is being done again. Others are pointing out how atheists push their views on believers of whatever religion, yet the discussion is leaning toward asserting that when Christians do it, it is more harmful than when atheists do it.

I just took this entire debate on by myself - you all jumped to the defense of each other - there's more of you than there is of me. Who's more pushy?

Christians are not wrong for letting it be known they are believers, just as atheists are not wrong for letting others know that they are not believers. However, when we start acting as if one's actions are worse than the other's, we are, in essence, doing exactly what we are complaining about.

If you'd bother to read the entire thread, you'd see that we all essentially agreed that excessive actions on both sides are just as wrong, and there is no "worse than the other".

Again, both sides are guilty of pushing their beliefs to some extent. Sure, there are more Christians in the world, so you will therefore, naturally, have more (in numbers) "radical" Christians pushing their beliefs. However, on a per capita basis, I would venture a pretty accurate guess that the atheists are far more "pushy".

Athiests more pushy on a per capita basis? You have sufficient resources and facts to back this statement up, I trust?

 

[freeandfun1]

We appear to be more pushy because, as I said, there are more of us.

As for the per capita argument, just look at the news every day. Just read the papers, just look at the revisionist history that is being made every day. You must admit that atheists make up a much smaller number in this nation, yet your message is easily heard more freely than that of evangelical Christians.

And if you read my post accurately, you will note that I said "guess".

 

[Shattered]

We appear to be more pushy because, as I said, there are more of us.

As for the per capita argument, just look at the news every day. Just read the papers, just look at the revisionist history that is being made every day. You must admit that atheists make up a much smaller number in this nation, yet your message is easily heard more freely than that of evangelical Christians.

And if you read my post accurately, you will note that I said "guess".

My message? I don't have a message - I simply do not believe in God, Satan, Heaven, or Hell (Tho I capitalize them out of respect for those that do). (I assume you meant 'my' in a collective sense)..

This whole debate is exhausting - I'm not going to change any of your opinions, and it's pretty likely that none of you are going to change mine, so you can have the '"win", and I'll bow out for the remainder of this discussion.

Just try to refrain from painting people with such a broad brush - we're all different. For example, I'm not the least bit religious, but I don't deny you the right to pray in public (just don't try to drag me with you), but I believe abortion is wrong, but at the same time I'm not opposed to the death penalty...I'm not a "Republican" in any extreme sense, but I believe Bush is by FAR the lesser of two evils, I have no problem with homosexuals on a personal level, but I don't believe it's a choice I'd ever make, etc...

If you're going to "peg" people, peg them on an individual basis based on what you know about them.