CDZ EV question

[beagle9]

No, I was not talking about the electric motor in duel usage.

You don't seem to realize the the conservation of energy is a zero sum game. The motor coverts the charge (energy) that is stored in the battery to kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is the energy of a moving body and equals 1/2 times the mass times its velocity squared. The generator in turn converts the kinetic energy of the moving car to electric energy and stores it in another battery. In other words the generator takes the kinetic energy of the car and turns it into electricity, the opposite of what the electric motor is doing. For every joule of energy produced by the generator to be stored into the second battery, the kinetic energy (the motion of the car) must be reduced. Well the mass of the car is constant, so taking kinetic energy from the car means reducing the cars velocity. The current from the battery to the electric motor pushes the car forward giving it kinetic energy (1/2 mV^2) The generator creates a force pushing against the forward motion of the car reducing the the velocity of the car. So having a generator is in effect like operating a motor in opposition to the motion of the car.

Every smidgen of energy/charge stored from the generator to the battery comes directly from reducing the kinetic energy (the velocity) of the car. Doing this is fine in situations that braking/slowing the car is needed, hence regenerative braking systems. But if braking isn't necessary then it's simply more efficient not to slow the car because you will never get back as much energy you take away.

Also note, a "small generator" small meaning much smaller than the electric motor , will charge the second battery much much slower than the first battery is being drained. In fact, the generator regardless of size will generate less energy to the second battery than output from the first battery, otherwise the car would never move.

Hmmm, do you think maybe that you are over complicating the idea somewhat ? Ok the vehicle is being propelled down the road by the main drive system, and yes the charge is depleting as it goes, but at a very slow rate by concept of study and by design... If not efficient enough, then the vehicle concept wouldn't be viable therefore never leaving the idea phase correct ?

Ok, so it has enough power to go to a speed of 65 mph cruising speed, and while at this rate of speed the drain on the system probably stands at a usage rate of so many amps being used per minute. Now as the free wheels are spinning without being assigned to anything other than ease of roll, and stability of the vehicle, I ask why can't the free unassigned wheel drive some type of small generator that would be trickle charging the now unassigned primary once it has been turned into the backup after the secondary had been switched over to run as the primary ?

Yes, I believe that the unit wouldn't have the power generation to charge the secondary back to full capacity as if you were in a docking station, but couldn't it serve some purpose in the recharging process, otherwise instead of that wheel just spinning without doing anything but stabilizing the vehicle so it can be driven safely down the road ?

I see something spinning without it having some duty regarding regeneration or generation of electrical spark coming from it, just seems a waste (i.e.wasted kinetic or whatever type of energy is involved) to me. LOL.

 

[JoeMoma]

I see something spinning without it having some duty regarding regeneration or generation of electrical spark coming from it, just seems a waste (i.e.wasted kinetic or whatever type of energy is involved) to me. LOL.

I guess you simply do not understand...either that or you are shitting me to see how many ways I will try to explain the same thing but a different way.

I give up!

 

[beagle9]

I guess you simply do not understand...either that or you are shitting me to see how many ways I will try to explain the same thing but a different way.

I give up!

Hope someday we'll figure it all out... Thanks brother.. It's been educational I guess.. lol

 

[beagle9]

So a diesel engine propels a tractor truck down the highway from point A to point B, and in the process the free wheels spinning on the steers will also be spinning small generator's that serve to charge on board batteries if and when needed.

So when the truck makes it to it's destination say 100 miles out, it then switches over to electric power (the truck is now empty), and this powers the truck back to it's starting point. Along the way the fossil fuel burning engine sits idle for the trip back.

Once reaching it's destination, it's time to get loaded again. Once this happens the diesel engine is shifted back as the power source in order to power the vehicle as now the batteries sit idle.

Ok the charging system kick's in to charge the drained batteries back to capacity, otherwise when the truck goes for another hundred mile trip out to deliver a load. Once reach the unloading destination, and next the load is unloaded, then the electric motor and batteries can be reinstated for power after charging has made the batteries and electric power usable again while the diesel engine gave the system a break.

Yes this is a hybrid, and it saves some fuel by switching to electric, otherwise when the vehicle is empty, and therefore easier to power it down the road instead of it being loaded.

 

[HandleTheTruth]

Perpetual motion machines are not possible. Period.

Yeah I remember when we said humans would never achieve flight.

 

[AsherN]

Hmmm, do you think maybe that you are over complicating the idea somewhat ? Ok the vehicle is being propelled down the road by the main drive system, and yes the charge is depleting as it goes, but at a very slow rate by concept of study and by design... If not efficient enough, then the vehicle concept wouldn't be viable therefore never leaving the idea phase correct ?

Ok, so it has enough power to go to a speed of 65 mph cruising speed, and while at this rate of speed the drain on the system probably stands at a usage rate of so many amps being used per minute. Now as the free wheels are spinning without being assigned to anything other than ease of roll, and stability of the vehicle, I ask why can't the free unassigned wheel drive some type of small generator that would be trickle charging the now unassigned primary once it has been turned into the backup after the secondary had been switched over to run as the primary ?

Yes, I believe that the unit wouldn't have the power generation to charge the secondary back to full capacity as if you were in a docking station, but couldn't it serve some purpose in the recharging process, otherwise instead of that wheel just spinning without doing anything but stabilizing the vehicle so it can be driven safely down the road ?

I see something spinning without it having some duty regarding regeneration or generation of electrical spark coming from it, just seems a waste (i.e.wasted kinetic or whatever type of energy is involved) to me. LOL.

The battery if full of potential energy. It is used to power an electric motor. Some of that energy is lost as heat. The rest makes it to the wheel. After it has overcome inertia, the wheel starts to spin, using that energy for forward motion. The wheel must also overcome friction, from the bearings and the road mostly. More energy lost, converted to heat. Assume a highly efficient motor and load friction bearings that only loses 10% of the initial energy. Now comes the friction. And perhaps in a counterintuitive way, the goal is to increase friction between the wheel and the road. That is what it is. Now you introduce another "free" wheel. Well, it ain't free. Friction from the road and friction from the wheel assembly will rob the system of energy otherwise slated to propel the car forward. Just having a free wheel requires more energy to move the car than not having it.

Let's assume highly efficient motor(generator) and wheel assemblies. They only lose 10% of the energy. Your free 5th wheel increases the friction by 20%, meaning the battery need to supply 20% more energy to achieve the same speed. Now connect that to the generator and it loses 10% before hitting the battery. See where I'm going here? You require more energy to just move because of that extra wheel. And then, of the kinetic energy fed to that wheel, only 90% can make it to charge the battery. Hell, forget the wheel, connect the battery straight to the generator. Of the energy needed to spin the generator, 10% is lost to the operation of the generator.

That's why what you are proposing would not work. It's also why regenerative braking is being used. You slow down a car in motion by applying friction. In a conventional car, that is applying using the friction of brake pads against a metal disc, and the natural friction of the tires against the road. That conversion produces heat. In an EV, you can forgo the brakes and use a generator to generate the friction. Bonus is that can be converted to electricity the charge the battery. It makes use of energy that would be wasted anyway.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Perpetual motion machines are not possible. Period.

I see you have never been a parent to a toddler.

 

[AsherN]

I see you have never been a parent to a toddler.

Infants do not follow the laws of physics. You feed them 4oz of formula, they gain 2oz of weight and shit 5 lbs. And there I was, thinking you can't create matter...

 

[JoeMoma]

 

[beagle9]

The battery if full of potential energy. It is used to power an electric motor. Some of that energy is lost as heat. The rest makes it to the wheel. After it has overcome inertia, the wheel starts to spin, using that energy for forward motion. The wheel must also overcome friction, from the bearings and the road mostly. More energy lost, converted to heat. Assume a highly efficient motor and load friction bearings that only loses 10% of the initial energy. Now comes the friction. And perhaps in a counterintuitive way, the goal is to increase friction between the wheel and the road. That is what it is. Now you introduce another "free" wheel. Well, it ain't free. Friction from the road and friction from the wheel assembly will rob the system of energy otherwise slated to propel the car forward. Just having a free wheel requires more energy to move the car than not having it.

Let's assume highly efficient motor(generator) and wheel assemblies. They only lose 10% of the energy. Your free 5th wheel increases the friction by 20%, meaning the battery need to supply 20% more energy to achieve the same speed. Now connect that to the generator and it loses 10% before hitting the battery. See where I'm going here? You require more energy to just move because of that extra wheel. And then, of the kinetic energy fed to that wheel, only 90% can make it to charge the battery. Hell, forget the wheel, connect the battery straight to the generator. Of the energy needed to spin the generator, 10% is lost to the operation of the generator.

That's why what you are proposing would not work. It's also why regenerative braking is being used. You slow down a car in motion by applying friction. In a conventional car, that is applying using the friction of brake pads against a metal disc, and the natural friction of the tires against the road. That conversion produces heat. In an EV, you can forgo the brakes and use a generator to generate the friction. Bonus is that can be converted to electricity the charge the battery. It makes use of energy that would be wasted anyway.

Ok, now address my diesel concept (the hybrid) above... Thanks

 

[AsherN]

Ok, now address my diesel concept (the hybrid) above... Thanks

what's to address? That's the way hybrids work, when not on batteries, the ICE sacrifices gas mileage to also charge the battery. I think it was the Chevy Volt that took it a step further by having a strictly electric power train and a small ICE engine whose sole purpose was to charge the battery. That works because you are introducing another energy source to charge.

 

[beagle9]

what's to address? That's the way hybrids work, when not on batteries, the ICE sacrifices gas mileage to also charge the battery. I think it was the Chevy Volt that took it a step further by having a strictly electric power train and a small ICE engine whose sole purpose was to charge the battery. That works because you are introducing another energy source to charge.

Think it'll work in the scenario I talked about ???? Let me ask this also - If the hybrid's are the ticket to this saving of the environment, then why hasn't everything gone to hybrid's in some form or another already ? I mean if this climate change is such a serious deal or matter, then why hasn't these important steps been implemented already ??

 

[AsherN]

Think it'll work in the scenario I talked about ???? Let me ask this also - If the hybrid's are the ticket to this saving of the environment, then why hasn't everything gone to hybrid's in some form or another already ? I mean if this climate change is such a serious deal or matter, then why hasn't these important steps been implemented already ??

Because hybrids are a stop gap. I see pure hybrids slowly going away in favour of PHEV for quite a while. When the charging infrastructure matures, I see even PHEV going away.

 

[theHawk]

I want to ask this, and please give the best answer you all can bring within your abilities to think inside or outside the box.

Question - Why can't an EV be self charging if it only needs one drive wheel turning for the power, and yet there are three other wheels turning, where as couldn't at least one of them be hooked up to a charging mechanism in order to automatically charge the batteries ??? Even if the power is switched to the spare set while the mains recharge in a loop that is constantly managed and monitored by the on board computer, would it work ?????

This has got to be possible now, but is it being withheld due to the sudden and devastating impact it might have on the volume of oil used, and the job's committed to the fossil fuel industry that involve the transportation category ?????

Umm they do charge on all wheels, when you brake or coast. It’s called regenerative braking.

 

[alang1216]

Yeah I remember when we said humans would never achieve flight.

And we haven't, no matter how hard we flap our arms. The difference it that many animals have mastered flight, none have achieved perpetual motion.

 

[beagle9]

Because hybrids are a stop gap. I see pure hybrids slowly going away in favour of PHEV for quite a while. When the charging infrastructure matures, I see even PHEV going away.

Uhhhh, you might be waiting for a long time then.

Competing with fossil fuels or oil is going to have to be beyond a doubt approvably efficient to a level of acceptance, powerful, consistent, dependable, quick to use, and safe for the owner's and their families..... A supply chain has to be ready to supply parts and etc also. No where near to this for a while, but nothing wrong with working towards a new technology that might one day replace old technology.

 

[beagle9]

And we haven't, no matter how hard we flap our arms. The difference it that many animals have mastered flight, none have achieved perpetual motion.

Only God controls perpetual motion, but he has given man the ability to utilize his free will to create to a lesser degree many things, and to play around with the knowledge we've been given. So far so good, and hopefully there is more to come, but if we don't turn back to God, then our motion will eventually stop.

 

[beagle9]

Umm they do charge on all wheels, when you brake or coast. It’s called regenerative braking.

Yep, we've been through a lot of different lines of thought on the subject, and thanks for joining in.

 

[beagle9]

What do y'all think about this along the lines of what we were discussing here ?

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

I want to ask this, and please give the best answer you all can bring within your abilities to think inside or outside the box.

Question - Why can't an EV be self charging if it only needs one drive wheel turning for the power, and yet there are three other wheels turning, where as couldn't at least one of them be hooked up to a charging mechanism in order to automatically charge the batteries ??? Even if the power is switched to the spare set while the mains recharge in a loop that is constantly managed and monitored by the on board computer, would it work ?????

This has got to be possible now, but is it being withheld due to the sudden and devastating impact it might have on the volume of oil used, and the job's committed to the fossil fuel industry that involve the transportation category ?????

Thats the question I've been asking for the past 5 years!

People forget that when Teslas first came out on the market, their roofs were solar panels. So what happened to that?
They were supposed to be self-sustaining EV's........so WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THE SOLAR PANEL ROOFS???