Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

[JohnDB]

I've been looking at that. My little county on the central Oregon coast has a population of only around 60,000. Granted, we get a lot of weekend traffic from Portland and Salem metro areas where EV's are incredibly popular. But we've got 20 charging stations all within a half hour drive.

You will likely need a generator...at least a 5,500 watt. Maybe more to drive a charger. All the ones that do the faster charging require at least 208-240 volts and a lot of amps. I haven't seen any fast chargers that take less than 30amps or need 480v. (I'm sure there are some but I personally haven't seen them)

That's actually something that can mount on the bed of a 3,500 tow truck. (Winch style not flatbed...but maybe enough room on a flatbed too)

But that is what I would look at if I were you and operating a tow service.

 

[toobfreak]

we've got 20 charging stations all within a half hour drive.

20 places to recharge within 30 miles!
That is approximately one place to recharge for every 141 square miles!

 

[daveman]

It's usually referred to as inductive resistance. Most of the inductive resistance can be equaled out with capacitors though....but then you still have resistance which comes from increased wire length which can't be negated. It comes from heat loss. Those huge cooling fins/radiators are on transformers for a reason.

Batteries are a "stop gap" at best for EVs until some other sort of technology can be "discovered". Probably some sort of hydrogen fuel cell technology.

Only 40% of the population has a home that can even install a car charger in a garage increasing the urban sprawl at the same time. Apartments don't have such conveniences. A few new ones might...but even with the best technology today the batteries on an EV require 20 minutes for a 70-80% charge.
So...fuel cell technology is definitely the way things will eventually go.

Fuel cells can use petroleum products or ethanol (depending)

GM has the best fuel cell tech to date but it got squashed for a laundry list of reasons. None of which are really political. They developed it for lighter vehicles using JP8.

The world's supply of platinum though was the main issue. They did discover one using iron instead of platinum...but the cell had to be twice the size and still is susceptible to contaminants. (Which destroys the fuel cell)

So, there's no truth to the Watermelon Brigade's (green on the outside, red on the inside) breathless claims that ICEs are on their way out.

 

[daveman]

That is correct. And the Tesla S Plaid is limited at 200 mph. Most Tesla's will do at least 130 mph. And even the Y Performance will show up Detroit iron.

Not exactly a suburban grocery-getter, is it?

 

[daveman]

At present. I have only bought two new vehicles in my life. I look for older vehicles that have been maintained well, and buy them at 10 cents on the dollar. And usually drive them another 100,000 to 150,000 miles. When the 4680 batteries become the main battery for Tesla's, the used Tesla's will take a big price drop. And I will be able to afford one.

Uh huh. Buying a used electric vehicle just so you can replace the battery pack even sooner.

Genius.

 

[DrLove]

20 places to recharge within 30 miles!
That is approximately one place to recharge for every 141 square miles!

Well Loony Bird, I guess that would make sense if roads and highways covered every square mile of my county. They don't.
Think of it like this. If you have an EV with a 250-350 miles range, why would you be the slightest bit concerned about a 5-30 minute drive to the nearest charging station?
Hell, the longest drive I make anymore is from my place to Boise. I'll be doing that next month. It's about 500 miles, and I NEVER try to make the drive in one day.
So a range of even 250 miles works out just fine. That's about what my truck gets out of one tank of gas so you can't make that drive without stopping for gas anyway.

 

[wamose]

I have no problem with cleaner running cars. But I don't believe they'll be able to come up with the infrastructure (charging stations) or the electric supply to run a country full of electric cars.

 

[Sunsettommy]

BYD (Build Your Dream) EV buses fail in LA and Albuquerque.

BYD faces Albuquerque lawsuit

LANCASTER — The city of Albuquerque will take BYD Coach & Bus to court for failure to meet contractual obligations and delivering unsafe buses to the city, Mayor Tim Keller

www.avpress.com

{...
LANCASTER — The city of Albuquerque will take BYD Coach & Bus to court for failure to meet contractual obligations and delivering unsafe buses to the city, Mayor Tim Keller announced Friday.
The 739-page lawsuit comes after the city reportedly encountered numerous problems after the first few buses were delivered last October behind schedule, city officials said in a press release.
...
Albuquerque city officials say they have tried working with BYD Coach & Bus — a U.S. company that is a wholly owned subsidiary of its Chinese corporate parent — but the company continued to fail to meet requirements set in the contract with the city including delays in the delivery of the buses, and incomplete certification testing at the Larson Transportation Institute’s Bus Research and Testing Center, in Altoona, Pennsylvania. The city says the bus batteries run at only 177 miles on a single charge even though the contract requires 275 miles on a charge.
“As we work to move Albuquerque toward an environmentally sustainable future, it would have been a great step to have electric buses on the route, that’s one of the reasons we tried to make it work with BYD for a year,” Keller said in a statement. “Unfortunately, the technology they promised simply isn’t ready for this route. Our aim is to continue to eventually move all of our fleet vehicles to more sustainable models as the technology evolves. In the meantime, we are going to have to use more traditional clean fuel buses to get this project moving.”
...}

Other cities have problems with it too:

Report: Philadelphia’s Electric Bus Fleet in Complete Shambles​

and,

SEPTA’s cracking battery buses raise questions about the future of electric transit​

and,

Stalls, stops and breakdowns: Problems plague push for electric buses​

 

[toobfreak]

Well Loony Bird, I guess that would make sense if roads and highways covered every square mile of my county. They don't.

That only makes the matter even worse. Any 3rd grader should be able to see that.

why would you be the slightest bit concerned about a 5-30 minute drive to the nearest charging station?

So you're asking, with your car beeping a flashing red light that it is running out of power that you might need to drive another half hour in traffic to find a charging station and hope there aren't already ten cars in line ahead of you? I can drive 1-3 minutes from my home right now and have a choice of at least SEVEN gas stations! That is 28 to 56 gas pumps!

And if I wanted, I could throw a 1-5 gallon can of gas in the back of my truck for an instant refill on the spot to get me out of a pinch.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So you're asking, with your car beeping a flashing red light that it is running out of power that you might need to drive another half hour in traffic to find a charging station and hope there aren't already ten cars in line ahead of you?

Ten cars which are going to take 30 minutes each to charge?

Sounds super awesome!!

 

[toobfreak]

Ten cars which are going to take 30 minutes each to charge?
Sounds super awesome!!

The dirty secret is given the same capacity, any battery which can charge to the same energy density in a shorter period of time makes for a potentially more dangerous and explosive battery because of the exponentially higher inrush current.

If you can just dump massive energy into a battery, that means its capable of RELEASING that energy quickly too. That makes every voltage junction critical it doesn't fail otherwise enormous current (and by that, HEAT) can be generated. Heat = fire.

That can be partly assuaged by making them to Delta 6 standards, the problem is that this fantastically raises the manufacturing cost be virtually guaranteeing 100% QA with almost unheard of failures!

 

[westwall]

Here in TN we got a lot of dirt track and some street. The politics of it was astounding to me. I've stayed away from doing it. All the work, money and time you have to pour into a car just to have someone intentionally wreck you....no thanks.

In the vintage racing scene we don't put up with that crap. You make a stupid move and you're done.

Too many rich dudes playing boy racer, and the cars are bloody expensive.

My car is in this picture.

 

[JohnDB]

So, there's no truth to the Watermelon Brigade's (green on the outside, red on the inside) breathless claims that ICEs are on their way out.

No...
Most of these EVs are made out of lots of petroleum products...
From plastic dashboards to tires and even the foam in the seats.
Of course the fiberglass panels and bumpers are petroleum products.... same thing with the lubricants.

So. No... petroleum products are going to be around for a loooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng time.

 

[Old Rocks]

20 places to recharge within 30 miles!
That is approximately one place to recharge for every 141 square miles!


View attachment 516756

15 charging stations close to where I live;

charging stations near me - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[Old Rocks]

No...
Most of these EVs are made out of lots of petroleum products...
From plastic dashboards to tires and even the foam in the seats.
Of course the fiberglass panels and bumpers are petroleum products.... same thing with the lubricants.

So. No... petroleum products are going to be around for a loooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng time.

It is not the use of petroleum as industrial stock or lubricant that has created the problem, but the burning of it, creating CO2.

 

[JohnDB]

It is not the use of petroleum as industrial stock or lubricant that has created the problem, but the burning of it, creating CO2.

Huh?

I'm getting the feeling that you don't understand much about refining or the processing of hydrocarbons. (Petroleum products or coal)

 

[Old Rocks]

Not exactly a suburban grocery-getter, is it?

LOL Damn, but you are one stupid ass. That is exactly what it is. In fact, saw one today outside the local Fred Meyer. And it can negotiate slow super market parking lots with and aplomb that the lumpa-lump high horsepower ICE's cannot match. Two Y's now on the block I live on, and we are a middle income neighborhood. That is the beauty of the high end EV's, they can utterly destroy ICE's on the drag strip and act like a docile granny car in normal life.

 

[Natural Citizen]

In the vintage racing scene we don't put up with that crap. You make a stupid move and you're done.

Too many rich dudes playing boy racer, and the cars are bloody expensive.

My car is in this picture.

When you get into the super cars, road courses are where it's at.

Agreed about what you're saying, though. Those old-timers don't screw around. Heck, anyone who knows the expense of maintaining them knows that, doesn't matter how old one may be.

You're right about too many rich dudes (or daddy's rich) playing boy racer, too.

Meant to add the other poster into the quote about the dirt tracks but didn't work for some reason. Dirt tracks are fun to watch, but those cats are nuts. lol. They get down, for sure.

I've been thinking about an exotic a lot lately. I dunno. It's not the money, mind you. More along the lines of geography. I like open roads too much.

 

[Pilot1]

Electric Vehicles are 3% of the market even with government subsidies and them pressuring car manufacturers. The vast majority can't use them because they won't do what people need vehicles to do. Grow the eff up.

 

[DrLove]

Other cities have problems with it too:

Report: Philadelphia’s Electric Bus Fleet in Complete Shambles​

and,

SEPTA’s cracking battery buses raise questions about the future of electric transit​

and,

Stalls, stops and breakdowns: Problems plague push for electric buses​

Watts Up with That is pseudo-science, denialist kookery and your LA Times story is over three years old.

• Overall, we rate Watts Up with That a strong pseudoscience and conspiracy website based on the promotion of consistent human-influenced climate denialism propaganda. (2/14/2017) Updated 01/16/2021)