Zone1 Do you believe in Hell for the unrepentant?

[notmyfault2020]

There are various (differing) conceptions of Hell in Jewish tradition. By and large, except in very extreme cases of purely evil people (maybe akin to Hitler?), Hell is a place of reformation and cleansing. So the traditional Jewish view of Hell is not the same as the kind of Hell we speak about like fire and brimstone and torture forever.

That’s something too. Really really.

you are speaking of Purgatory, just not calling it that.

There is no reforming in Hell. The time to reform is here on Earth, a testing ground. If you follow Satan on Earth, you will be with in the next realm and there is no going from one side to another as per the parable Jesus told in Luke 1619. Most people end up there. Not only do saints say t hat but my experiences in life seem to totally confirm it

 

[notmyfault2020]

Yes, and going on to the next step of supposing, I wonder if we are not part of our own construction. Genesis has that fascinating verse story of humans wanting to know both good and evil. I doubt any of will be that surprised wherever we begin our next life. Were we fascinated by good and by serving others? Then it appears we want to be closer to God. Were we fascinated with me first (even when it meant petty thievery and selfishness) then we wouldn't want to be that close to God or that interested in serving Him.

Catholicism defines hell as separation from God, and that is something a person chooses. The etymology of the word hell comes from the words meaning to cover or to hide.

I do not see hell so much as God choosing the punish us, as I see people choosing to hide or cover their existence from God. We have free will. We are promised the forgiveness of sins. Perhaps it is time we get past Dante's portrayal of hell in his novel of the Inferno.

well, there is Jesus's portrayal of Hell: eternal punishment

Mt 25:31 and other psgs

 

[notmyfault2020]

You cannot understand Hell until you understand--or at least begin to understand--the nature of God.

God cannot by His Nature abide sin. He not only cannot allow it, it's repellant to Him. It won't stand in His presence in the same way light dispels darkness.

Prior to Christ there was nothing we could do about our sin. We were all lost to eternity. We can't abolish our sin; God cannot abide it.

In short--Jesus is the solution.

Jesus is the way to heaven, but that is not the end. Even Christians will be judged, but not to gauge whether they enter Heaven. We will be given various "rewards" based on what we did while on earth. There is no reason to believe the same won't be true of lost souls too. I believe those those don't put their faith in Jesus will suffer the loss of God. But that doesn't mean the child trafficker and murderer will suffer the same as the person who worked in a soup kitchen all their days but was Buddhist. That's just not God's nature.

In short:

Today is the day of salvation. When Jesus comes back it will be too late!

you cannot prove that God deals with the Buddhist differently than other sinners. He likely does, but there is no scripture or any other evidence available. People need to stop presuming on God. I have presumed on him in the past and likely will sporadically until the end bc I am human and do not understand many things about Him and how he works. But I try not to presume

 

[Meriweather]

well, there is Jesus's portrayal of Hell: eternal punishment

Mt 25:31 and other psgs

I am guessing the reference is Matthew 25:46.

Years ago I came across this definition for coming to a conclusion: The conclusion is merely the point where one stops thinking.

Today, the accepted definition of eternal is no beginning, no end. Matthew says some will go off to eternal punishment. How can they go off to the eternal if 'eternal' means no beginning...by our modern definition, they are already there.

That takes us to, Well what did Matthew mean by the words we see as 'punishment' and 'eternal'? The etymology of the two encompasses 'penalty' or 'correction' and 'of an age' or 'everlasting'. What did Matthew intend to convey? Was it a penalty that was everlasting? Or, was it a penalty or correction that lasted an age or a very long time?

And this is the point I reached a conclusion/stopped thinking with "Unknown intent" because I have no way asking Matthew for clarification. Still, I did not stop thinking when I saw 'eternal punishment' in verse 46.

 

[BackAgain]

you are speaking of Purgatory, just not calling it that.

There is no reforming in Hell. The time to reform is here on Earth, a testing ground. If you follow Satan on Earth, you will be with in the next realm and there is no going from one side to another as per the parable Jesus told in Luke 1619. Most people end up there. Not only do saints say t hat but my experiences in life seem to totally confirm it

Ok. Begs the question though. Is there even a “hell?” If so, is it a place of eternal torture?

 

[notmyfault2020]

I am guessing the reference is Matthew 25:46.

Years ago I came across this definition for coming to a conclusion: The conclusion is merely the point where one stops thinking.

Today, the accepted definition of eternal is no beginning, no end. Matthew says some will go off to eternal punishment. How can they go off to the eternal if 'eternal' means no beginning...by our modern definition, they are already there.

That takes us to, Well what did Matthew mean by the words we see as 'punishment' and 'eternal'? The etymology of the two encompasses 'penalty' or 'correction' and 'of an age' or 'everlasting'. What did Matthew intend to convey? Was it a penalty that was everlasting? Or, was it a penalty or correction that lasted an age or a very long time?

And this is the point I reached a conclusion/stopped thinking with "Unknown intent" because I have no way asking Matthew for clarification. Still, I did not stop thinking when I saw 'eternal punishment' in verse 46.

well, thanks for your obscurantism.. Now we are all clear.. meaning clearly confused

Except that I am not confused on this issue because I know that Hell is AWFUL and that the unrepentant go there and they stay there forever. Eternity does not mean: always existed unless stated clearly.

Jesus said those who do not obey His commandment to take care of people in need go off to eternal punishment. I don't think this is one of those scripture passages that calls for a trained theologian to accurately interpret and no one else can understand it until then.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Ok. Begs the question though. Is there even a “hell?” If so, is it a place of eternal torture?

If people stay in their mortal sin without repenting (adultery, unconfessed abortion or promoting it.. fornication.. abusing people..) they will stay in their sin in the next life (except they can no longer harm others, thank God) and since there is no sin or desire for sin in Heaven, they are excluded and have to have their own place where evil still reigns (as it reigns in their hearts,minds). They had all the time they needed in this life to repent and didn't so I don't know why anyone needs to pity them.. except that we need to pity them while they are with us on Earth.. and pray for them to repent..

As stated, my own personal experiences with injustice and malice.. confirms there is a Hell.. and it just stands to reason it does last forever. If a person does not repent in this life.. why would he do so in the next? If he repents, he may be in purgatory a long time in the next.. getting himself purified from the ill effects of his (forgiven) sin.

I'm having a hard time imagining the person who never even thinks about repenting. But some think about it and then decline because they don't want to change.. don't want anyone telling them what to do, even God..

 

[Moonglow]

Do you believe in Hell for the unrepentant?

The lives of people who suffer egregiously at the hands of.. whomever.. tend to prove Hell if the Bible does not convince you. I have read stories of horrendous child abuse and then the abused goes on to suffer at the hands of others who also abuse.. girls molested as a child getting involved later w/ abusive husbands, etc..

Then there is all the evil inflicted upon us by "insane" people "running things" in the gvt. And sometimes, frankly, it seems God does not care about these victims of evil

until He does.. I say He takes them to Heaven and then... What does He do about all the evil doers? Those of us who believe Scripture rarely doubt the existence of Hell.

OK, I tried to fix this error in the poll questions but couldn't

It should read

No (elite dims do NOT prove there has to be)

There is no Hell to scare little boys and girls.

 

[BackAgain]

If people stay in their mortal sin without repenting (adultery, unconfessed abortion or promoting it.. fornication.. abusing people..) they will stay in their sin in the next life (except they can no longer harm others, thank God) and since there is no sin or desire for sin in Heaven, they are excluded and have to have their own place where evil still reigns (as it reigns in their hearts,minds). They had all the time they needed in this life to repent and didn't so I don't know why anyone needs to pity them.. except that we need to pity them while they are with us on Earth.. and pray for them to repent..

As stated, my own personal experiences with injustice and malice.. confirms there is a Hell.. and it just stands to reason it does last forever. If a person does not repent in this life.. why would he do so in the next? If he repents, he may be in purgatory a long time in the next.. getting himself purified from the ill effects of his (forgiven) sin.

I'm having a hard time imagining the person who never even thinks about repenting. But some think about it and then decline because they don't want to change.. don't want anyone telling them what to do, even God..

That’s all a religious belief. And with no disrespect intended toward those who believe, I simply don’t believe in hell.

But I do believe in God. I do believe that there is something after our mortal life although I have no reason to believe in the form it takes.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus said those who do not obey His commandment to take care of people in need go off to eternal punishment. I don't think this is one of those scripture passages that calls for a trained theologian to accurately interpret and no one else can understand it until then.

Shrug. I am merely explaining the etymology of the words we see. Matthew did not have access to modern English.

 

[notmyfault2020]

That’s all a religious belief. And with no disrespect intended toward those who believe, I simply don’t believe in hell.

But I do believe in God. I do believe that there is something after our mortal life although I have no reason to believe in the form it takes.

well, I find not believing in Hell to be illogical. It stnds to reason that good people go to one place, bad to another. If the bad apples were mixed w/ the good.. we wouldn't have good apples anymore, not for long.

That's just common sense. And evil people don't want to be with good ones anyway.. and vice versa

 

[BackAgain]

well, I find not believing in Hell to be illogical.

You are entitled to your belief.

 

[hobelim]

Ok. Begs the question though. Is there even a “hell?” If so, is it a place of eternal torture?

The choice presented by Moses between a blessing, life, and a curse, death depends upon the righteous fulfillment of the Divine commands or failure to do so.

Hell is the realm of the dead.

when people profess to believe in superstitious religious flotsam, reality, which contradicts their 'faith' in the ridiculous day and night, is like an eternal fire that will never go out.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Shrug. I am merely explaining the etymology of the words we see. Matthew did not have access to modern English.

you are complicating things. The Scriptures were kept intact throughout the centuries just as the Church was. Why so reluctant to believe in an actual Hell? How could ther not be a Hell? Where do all the people who hate God and His ways go after death? they certainly don't go to Heaven. You say u believe in purgatory, but only the repentant go there and as a Catholic you know that. So where do the evil people go, the ones who heard God's word and heard the Voice of His Church but shunned it and did whatever evil came into their minds/hearts?

Surely you don't believe francis who says hell is just a matter of disappearing? sheez.. Vatican II has done massive, massive damage

 

[notmyfault2020]

You are entitled to your belief.

I kno that. As you are also

But what I'm concerned about is not what some human believes but the Truth. I just know there is a Hell. I do not believe but KNOW. Can I prove it? No..

Some accounts of people visiting Hell are quite credible, esp since the person him or herself is credible.. Faustina Diary 741 comes to mind and there are others

The Fatima children.. they were shown Hell by the Virgin Mother. Now why would Satan appear as Mary and tell little children.. no show them.. a scary place like Hell? Then ask them to pray for "poor sinners"? And sinners are never more poor, obviously, when they fall into an eternal place of torment and misery.

children do not make up stuff like that.. There were 3 of them telling the same story

 

[Meriweather]

you are complicating things. The Scriptures were kept intact throughout the centuries just as the Church was. Why so reluctant to believe in an actual Hell? How could ther not be a Hell? Where do all the people who hate God and His ways go after death? they certainly don't go to Heaven. You say u believe in purgatory, but only the repentant go there and as a Catholic you know that. So where do the evil people go, the ones who heard God's word and heard the Voice of His Church but shunned it and did whatever evil came into their minds/hearts?

Surely you don't believe francis who says hell is just a matter of disappearing? sheez.. Vatican II has done massive, massive damage

Understanding how language works and evolves is the opposite of complicating things. For example, how 'gay' is used today is far from how it was used in the 1950s, even the 1960s. The same is true of other words.

One of the ways scripture is kept intact is 'updating' language when the meanings of certain words change. Another word is selected that most closely matches the original language.

My belief in hell is not 'reluctant'. The Catholic Church teaches hell as a separation from God. Go back to the etymology of the word 'hell' and we find it means covered or hidden. God is covered/hidden from those in hell--thus the Church teaching that hell is separation from God.

Pope Francis was talking to an avowed atheist--not even being interviewed. The atheist said that is what Pope Francis said to him. If he lied about not doing an interview with Pope, is it possible he wasn't all together truthful about something else?

 

[buttercup]

Of course not. Using the most egregious of acts doesn't excuse lesser acts though. Not in the bible.

I can't speak for God but I imagine he isn't going to say:

"you know Callahan, you were a really bad human being, you did great harm to others, ruined countless lives with your deception and exploitation. You profited off of the misery of others through your lies, without any remorse and then tried to deceive me, your Father, on your deathbed after a life of lies. But hey. you're not as bad as those German officers so I guess you're in!"

Exactly. Well put. God doesn't grade on a curve.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Understanding how language works and evolves is the opposite of complicating things. For example, how 'gay' is used today is far from how it was used in the 1950s, even the 1960s. The same is true of other words.

One of the ways scripture is kept intact is 'updating' language when the meanings of certain words change. Another word is selected that most closely matches the original language.

My belief in hell is not 'reluctant'. The Catholic Church teaches hell as a separation from God. Go back to the etymology of the word 'hell' and we find it means covered or hidden. God is covered/hidden from those in hell--thus the Church teaching that hell is separation from God.

Pope Francis was talking to an avowed atheist--not even being interviewed. The atheist said that is what Pope Francis said to him. If he lied about not doing an interview with Pope, is it possible he wasn't all together truthful about something else?

I got this info on wht francis said RE Hell from Novus Ordo Watch. Is that where you went? is that where you supposedly found the story of some atheist who interviewed the "pope"?

I have a serious doubt that NOW would go by the words of an avowed atheist. So apparently you got your info elsewhere?

 

[Meriweather]

I got this info on wht francis said RE Hell from Novus Ordo Watch. Is that where you went? is that where you supposedly found the story of some atheist who interviewed the "pope"?

I went to the source. Who said what to whom. I didn't go to sources who had their own agenda and wished to tattle on the Pope. The atheist sold his article, it was printed. It was not an interview, there were no witnesses. We do not know what the Pope said, only the atheist claim to what he said. The Pope has never said any such thing to those close to him--or to the Church as a whole.

If you wish to believe badly about the Pope, that is your call. While I may not agree with all Pope Francis says, I find no verification that he made such a statement. This being the case, I dismiss it. What is fact is that the man hid that he planned to interview and write and article about his time with the Pope.

Another organization (your Novus Order Watch) wished to publicly embarrass the Pope and did so without doing their own investigation/clarification.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I went to the source. Who said what to whom. I didn't go to sources who had their own agenda and wished to tattle on the Pope. The atheist sold his article, it was printed. It was not an interview, there were no witnesses. We do not know what the Pope said, only the atheist claim to what he said. The Pope has never said any such thing to those close to him--or to the Church as a whole.

If you wish to believe badly about the Pope, that is your call. While I may not agree with all Pope Francis says, I find no verification that he made such a statement. This being the case, I dismiss it. What is fact is that the man hid that he planned to interview and write and article about his time with the Pope.

Another organization (your Novus Order Watch) wished to publicly embarrass the Pope and did so without doing their own investigation/clarification.

how do you know NOW didn't do any investigation?

and you still haven't shown where this atheist interviewer is the same source for the info at NOW

you just seem to w ant to automatically defend the new order "church"

I guess nothing bad ever happened to you there... maybe because you kiss ass or something.. But you don't seem overly concerned for those of us who have had some bad experiences therein.. I guess my bad experiences just don't matter one bit..