Zone1 My Spiritual Evolution

"Sin" is a childish, magical concept, and there is no hell. It's time we grew up as a species an put away these childish toys.
It's your childish and uniformed characterization of sin that should be put away. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. You are so hell bent on evangelizing your atheism that you have never considered the practical application of the concepts of sin, forgiveness and confession and the value understanding this relationship has in the real world. Rather you ignorantly characterize it as all about heaven and hell when in reality it's the exact opposite.

Why don't you just go along your merry way being happy you are an atheist and stop wasting people's time?
 
And no, it doesn't matter if you covet your neighbor's livestock 100 times. Thought crimes are not crimes, and the gross, immoral God Daddy who would prosecute these thought crimes is a figment of the imagination of the very limited human mind.
I've had this conversation with TNHarley You don't believe the God of Abraham exists. So when you say "immoral God Daddy" you are really saying immoral Jews. Because they were the ones who documented their account of the Canaanite genocide, right?
 
It's your childish and uniformed characterization of sin that should be put away.
Yes, put that away too, and continue to get your morality and ethics from reason and the world around you, not from a collection of bronze age myths written by illiterate primitive people.

That's why I like you cafeteria Christians.

Deal!
 
Yes, put that away too, and continue to get your morality and ethics from reason and the world around you, not from a collection of bronze age myths written by illiterate primitive people.

That's why I like you cafeteria Christians.

Deal!
Reason is absolute. Reason is not relative. Logic is absolute. Logic is not relative. You can't make reason and logic be anything you like. Error cannot stand. Eventually error fails and the reason the standard existed in the first place will be discovered.

So... no deal. Your views are too simplistic, self serving and partisan.
 
I left home with a strong moral code despite being a rabid atheist.
I left home with a strong moral code ... being a rabid atheist.

nothing wrong being a rabid atheist -

there is duplicity throughout what's "has been read" ... there seems not a christian alive that doesn't claim salvation after being an atheist and are then rabid desert dwellers as though that makes them any better or different.

* clue: find something real - if no news, then try no bible - in some ways they are one in the same.
 
Phase Three.



I’ve retired several years ago. The Queen of the Crazies is ancient history. I marry a woman who is more Irish than me. She’s one generation removed from Newfoundland. Newfoundlanders speak with perfect Irish accents, just to mess with outsiders, I’m guessing. Where did you say you’re from, again?

We produce children. I’m 42 years old when the first batch are born. Twins. Boy and a girl.

Yes. 42 years old, I am. I’m still something of a daredevil whackjob.

43 when we accidentally create another child a couple years earlier than we had planned.

Let me tell all you Catholics out there, the rhythm method does NOT work.

We are big believers in contraception, but the twins tried to kill their mother from inside the womb and the complications caused a delay before she could go back on the pill.

I hate condoms. Really, really hate ‘em. Never used them. And I’m a guy whose brother died from AIDS who told everyone he got it from an infected woman.

Plus, there’re are other incurable STDs out there. Still didn’t use them.

“Hey, baby! Let’s do the rhythm method”, said the ostentatiously irresponsible sex maniac.

We were tired. So very tired. Twins are hard work. You wouldn’t believe.

Our twins were natural. The couple in the hospital room next to my wife’s room had triplets by way of fertility drugs. Next to them were a couple who had quintuplets, thanks to modern science.

We consoled ourselves in our weariness by expressing our gratitude we weren’t THOSE people.



To this day, whenever we see people with newborn twins, we approach and comfort them with, “It gets easier, trust me.”


And it really does, thank God.



Then, oopsie! Number three is coming down the pike! Let’s pretend to be pleased.



And just in the nick of time, I’m laid off from my very first civilian job. And our water heater dies. In January.

BAD TIMING, LORD! JESUS H. CHRIST!


I make finding another job my full-time job, and quickly get another one. Then on my very first day there, I ask for the week off as my third baby is being born today.

The balls on me, eh?



Here’s the thing.

kyzr


Before the glorious day of our new daughter’s birth, I was shocked at the advice we were given by my wife’s women friends. They were all beautiful women with beautiful children. Very family-oriented and indispensable at helping me with the twins while my wife was hospitalized for a month after their births.

The mother hens look at the two of us. They look at the twins. They look at our weariness. They look at my unemployment. They know what my mortgage is as they live in the same houses.

They look at what they consider to be a pending doom baby, and they suggest my wife should get an abortion.

Let me tell you. My wife was more pro-choice than me. We’re talking if she was raped, she’d keep the baby, okay? Hardcore to the motherfucking bone.

She actually told me that once. Didn’t even ask me my opinion.

There is not a day goes by when I forget to thank God we did not abort our youngest daughter. I may be a little bit biased, but there is no better person than her. She is definitely going to make it into God’s book of saints. We hit the lottery with this one.

When the kids reach the age where they can communicate in a tongue we understand, we develop a bedtime routine for them. At the appointed hour, we say, “Potty-Water-Bed!” and off they go. They pee, they get a sip of water, and then muster at the bed that is at the top of the rotation.

You have to make a kid get some water before bed, or that will be a tactic for calling you later to let them get out of bed for water when they should be asleep. Children the world over all the way back to the era of the dinosaurs do this, so you have to pre-empt them.

Potty. Water. Bed.

Once they are at their assigned station, we parents join them for bedtime prayers. They are required to tell God two things for which they are grateful, and then are free to ask God to bless whoever is on their minds. We do not ask for anything for ourselves. It’s a one-way street.

Thank you for this, gimme that. Nope.

I said we were weary, right? Three kids in 14 months. This is what is known as Irish Triplets. You can look it up.

Well, one night it was just me on guardian duty, and I was a little off in my timing. More time passed than the kids needed for pottywaterbed. I was absorbed in myself and so they decided to log in some bonus playtime downstairs.

It is a real blessing to live in a house where the children’s bedrooms are downstairs instead of the customary upstairs where you can hear their annoying ruckus through the ceiling.

Twin Girl decides the curtain over the back door makes an excellent substitute for a rope swing.

Down comes the curtain with the rod bent in two. Not broken, just bent. This is important. If it was broken, I would have to replace it.

I hear the crash. I rush to the top of the stairs. I see three tiny faces looking up at me in terror. I shout “WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?” My exact words. In all caps.

Weary. Oh so weary. But I have sworn to never lay so much as a finger on these little blessings. Ever.

Timeouts? Absolutely. Out the wazoo. One minute for every year of your age. They will achieve a lot of hours sitting on the stairs over the years.

I’m looking at those ridiculously beautiful faces. We should be on our knees right now, sending mail up to God. But their faces tell me they really don’t want to be with angry Dad right now.

I am SUCH an ASSHOLE!





And then the penny drops.





Time portals and memories and ancient questions paralyze me. A bodiless mechanic scoops my defective brain, wrings it out, changes the oil, gives it a good buffing, renews the warranty, and pops it back under the hood.



I get it. I finally, finally get it.





Here’s the thing.

Before I created these precious human beings, I knew they were going to make mistakes.

I made them anyway.

And whenever they do make mistakes, it does not change in any way how I feel about them.

Not. One. Bit.

I might shout at them, like I did just now. But my love is completely unchanged.

They don’t know that in this moment, though. A large gulf has opened between us.

I realize it is my responsibility alone to reach across that gulf and close it, not the offenders.

Not the offenders. As their creator who put them here in the first place, their sins against me were my responsibility.

I descend from Ararat and I embrace them, and pat their little heads. I forgive them for being ignorant little shits. I explain the laws of physics as they apply to curtains and curtain rods. They agree it would therefore be a bad idea to be so careless moving forward. I tell them how much I love them.

And then we pray.



Boom.

The last clog melts away. The question is answered.

What does, “Jesus died for our sins” mean?



Before He created us, God knew we were going to be ungrateful assholes who would make big mistakes. He knew we would sin against Him. After all, the Dumbass gifted us with free will.

What would be the point of creating automatons? Where would be the joy?

No joy.

Now look at all of us. Swinging from the curtains. Breaking things.

And it does not change the way our Creator feels about us one bit.

When we do screw up, all we have to do is turn and face Him. Hey, sorry Big Dude in the Sky.

Then He uses His own Son as a bridge across the gulf.



Jesus died for our sins.



I’m looking at the curtain rod. It has transmogrified into a holy relic. I straighten it as best as I can and return it to its rightful place where it remains to this day.

I will never replace it. It is going to be buried with me where it will baffle future archeologists.
 
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Actually, a few people have.

Don't drive angry!
1738839257279.png


Yea, right. And what are the chances of that really?

Talking with you in the past I certainly picked up on the anger vibe.

But hey, anger is not a sin. In fact, not getting angry in this world may be one of the biggest sins of all because it only shows you have a moral pulse.

Not sure why God lets "bad things happen". That is the bane of believers and a quandy of mystery that never ends.

But that is the fun of being human, that is, not having all the answers while trying to find a way to carry on despite it.

I know in my life as I have decided not to reject my faith because of those "bad things", God at times has answered some of those questions, but not all.
 
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Phase Three.



I’ve retired several years ago. The Queen of the Crazies is ancient history. I marry a woman who is more Irish than me. She’s one generation removed from Newfoundland. Newfoundlanders speak with perfect Irish accents, just to mess with outsiders, I’m guessing. Where did you say you’re from, again?

We produce children. I’m 42 years old when the first batch are born. Twins. Boy and a girl.

Yes. 42 years old, I am. I’m still something of a daredevil whackjob.

43 when we accidentally create another child a couple years earlier than we had planned.

Let me tell all you Catholics out there, the rhythm method does NOT work.

We are big believers in contraception, but the twins tried to kill their mother from inside the womb and the complications caused a delay before she could go back on the pill.

I hate condoms. Really, really hate ‘em. Never used them. And I’m a guy whose brother died from AIDS who told everyone he got it from an infected woman.

Plus, there’re are other incurable STDs out there. Still didn’t use them.

“Hey, baby! Let’s do the rhythm method”, said the ostentatiously irresponsible sex maniac.

We were tired. So very tired. Twins are hard work. You wouldn’t believe.

Our twins were natural. The couple in the hospital room next to my wife’s room had triplets by way of fertility drugs. Next to them were a couple who had quintuplets, thanks to modern science.

We consoled ourselves in our weariness by expressing our gratitude we weren’t THOSE people.



To this day, whenever we see people with newborn twins, we approach and comfort them with, “It gets easier, trust me.”


And it really does, thank God.



Then, oopsie! Number three is coming down the pike! Let’s pretend to be pleased.



And just in the nick of time, I’m laid off from my very first civilian job. And our water heater dies. In January.

BAD TIMING, LORD! JESUS H. CHRIST!


I make finding another job my full-time job, and quickly get another one. Then on my very first day there, I ask for the week off as my third baby is being born today.

The balls on me, eh?



Here’s the thing.

kyzr


Before the glorious day of our new daughter’s birth, I was shocked at the advice we were given by my wife’s women friends. They were all beautiful women with beautiful children. Very family-oriented and indispensable at helping me with the twins while my wife was hospitalized for a month after their births.

The mother hens look at the two of us. They look at the twins. They look at our weariness. They look at my unemployment. They know what my mortgage is as they live in the same houses.

They look at what they consider to be a pending doom baby, and they suggest my wife should get an abortion.

Let me tell you. My wife was more pro-choice than me. We’re talking if she was raped, she’d keep the baby, okay? Hardcore to the motherfucking bone.

She actually told me that once. Didn’t even ask me my opinion.

There is not a day goes by when I forget to thank God we did not abort our youngest daughter. I may be a little bit biased, but there is no better person than her. She is definitely going to make it into God’s book of saints. We hit the lottery with this one.

When the kids reach the age where they can communicate in a tongue we understand, we develop a bedtime routine for them. At the appointed hour, we say, “Potty-Water-Bed!” and off they go. They pee, they get a sip of water, and then muster at the bed that is at the top of the rotation.

You have to make a kid get some water before bed, or that will be a tactic for calling you later to let them get out of bed for water when they should be asleep. Children the world over all the way back to the era of the dinosaurs do this, so you have to pre-empt them.

Potty. Water. Bed.

Once they are at their assigned station, we parents join them for bedtime prayers. They are required to tell God two things for which they are grateful, and then are free to ask God to bless whoever is on their minds. We do not ask for anything for ourselves. It’s a one-way street.

Thank you for this, gimme that. Nope.

I said we were weary, right? Three kids in 14 months. This is what is known as Irish Triplets. You can look it up.

Well, one night it was just me on guardian duty, and I was a little off in my timing. More time passed than the kids needed for pottywaterbed. I was absorbed in myself and so they decided to log in some bonus playtime downstairs.

It is a real blessing to live in a house where the children’s bedrooms are downstairs instead of the customary upstairs where you can hear their annoying ruckus through the ceiling.

Twin Girl decides the curtain over the back door makes an excellent substitute for a rope swing.

Down comes the curtain with the rod bent in two. Not broken, just bent. This is important. If it was broken, I would have to replace it.

I hear the crash. I rush to the top of the stairs. I see three tiny faces looking up at me in terror. I shout “WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?” My exact words. In all caps.

Weary. Oh so weary. But I have sworn to never lay so much as a finger on these little blessings. Ever.

Timeouts? Absolutely. Out the wazoo. One minute for every year of your age. They will achieve a lot of hours sitting on the stairs over the years.

I’m looking at those ridiculously beautiful faces. We should be on our knees right now, sending mail up to God. But their faces tell me they really don’t want to be with angry Dad right now.

I am SUCH an ASSHOLE!





And then the penny drops.





Time portals and memories and ancient questions paralyze me. A bodiless mechanic scoops my defective brain, wrings it out, changes the oil, gives it a good buffing, renews the warranty, and pops it back under the hood.



I get it. I finally, finally get it.





Here’s the thing.

Before I created these precious human beings, I knew they were going to make mistakes.

I made them anyway.

And whenever they do make mistakes, it does not change in any way how I feel about them.

Not. One. Bit.

I might shout at them, like I did just now. But my love is completely unchanged.

They don’t know that in this moment, though. A large gulf has opened between us.

I realize it is my responsibility alone to reach across that gulf and close it, not the offenders.

Not the offenders. As their creator who put them here in the first place, their sins against me were my responsibility.

I descend from Ararat and I embrace them, and pat their little heads. I forgive them for being ignorant little shits. I explain the laws of physics as they apply to curtains and curtain rods. They agree it would therefore be a bad idea to be so careless moving forward. I tell them how much I love them.

And then we pray.



Boom.

The last clog melts away. The question is answered.

What does, “Jesus died for our sins” mean?



Before He created us, God knew we were going to be ungrateful assholes who would make big mistakes. He knew we would sin against Him. After all, the Dumbass gifted us with free will.

What would be the point of creating automatons? Where would be the joy?

No joy.

Now look at all of us. Swinging from the curtains. Breaking things.

And it does not change the way our Creator feels about us one bit.

When we do screw up, all we have to do is turn and face Him. Hey, sorry Big Dude in the Sky.

Then He uses His own Son as a bridge across the gulf.



Jesus died for our sins.



I’m looking at the curtain rod. It has transmogrified into a holy relic. I straighten it as best as I can and return it to its rightful place where it remains to this day.

I will never replace it. It is going to be buried with me where it will baffle future archeologists.
Well I have to admit I am impressed with you. It takes a lot of courage to open up the way you have with pure honesty and self-reflection. You certainly a far more interesting person than the one you have been presenting on this board.
 
The sicker and crazier I got, the sicker and crazier the girlfriends I acquired.

After all, no normal sane woman is going to want to have anything to do with a maniac.

I finally encountered the Queen of the Crazies and promptly fell madly in love with her.

She was a bartender living in a trailer in Mississippi, with two kids she had before the age of 18 by two different fathers. Even better, she had gone through four husbands by the age of 26.

I saw absolutely no red flags whatsoever about this relationship. That's just how besotted I was with her amazing good looks. My god, I can't even tell you how amazing she was in the looks department.

Here's a thing.

Crazy women are really, really good in bed. We're talking demon sex. A good looking woman who is a demon in bed will clog your red flag filters, folks. Voice of experience over here.

But there is a heavy price which comes with this. A very heavy price.

Two crazy people have crazy arguments. For example, she was smoking pot one night with a girlfriend when I came home to the trailer. For reasons I don't want to go into, it was imperative I grab that shit and threw it out into the weeds behind her trailer.

You know what she did?

She called the cops!

Queen of the Crazies.

A cop shows up. I explain the situation. He laughs and helps me look for the pot to back up my story, but it's fruitless. He then suggests I haul ass away from the Queen for a while.

I pack a bag and decide I'll go to another base three hours away where I have some friends. My intention is to have a Lost Weekend with them.

I get there two hours later (three hours is for pussies) and for reasons I have been unable to recall, I end up in a woman's apartment who I had picked up in a bar. I did not know her and never met up with my friends.

A amusing part of this story is she had locked her keys in her apartment. It took me literally half a second to jimmy her door with my military ID, which freaked her right the fuck out.

So I'm drinking one of her beers. I hate beer. I'm a Jack Daniels man. YEE-HAW!

But beer is all she has. And they are fricking pony beers. WTF?!?

For the uninitiated, a pony beer is a bottle about the size of your fist. Fucking faggot shit, is what I'm thinking. This woman is NOT impressing me.

By the way, I had a visceral hatred of homosexuals back then. You can probably figure out why. But it is also a fact that everyone of my generation hated them.

Some people still do.

My conversion about gays began when my brother was dying from AIDS. Most AIDS victims were gays, so my brother was in hospital with all gays.

He used to hate gays more than I did.

But I saw how those gay men treated my brother. They treated him better than I ever had. It wasn't even close. They were his brothers in death.

Hatred is chipped away a piece at a time. I still had a ways to go in that department,, but the process had begun.

Now there I am, holding a faggot beer. I've only drunk less than half of it when this inexplainable thing happens.

The desire to drink leaves me. Not just leaves me for that moment, but when I set that thing down on an end table, I knew with all certainty that was going to be the last alcoholic beverage I ever consumed.

And so it has been.

I stared at that thing. I stared at it some more. Then some more. Then I said out loud, "HUH!"

Then I excused myself, left the baffled babe behind, and sought out a friend and stayed at her place for the evening.

No, there was no sex. She really was just a friend. A very good and kind friend. A normal sane woman who allowed herself one indulgence by allowing this maniac in her house.

Okay, here comes Phase One.

The next day, I'm hauling ass back to my Queen. I'm driving at Warp Factor 3.

And then there's a voice. Right next to me and slightly behind me. I'm not going to tell you what that voice said, but it was biblical.

Freaked me right the fuck out, but I only had about ten milliseconds to react when I was surrounded by a white light.

Whammo.

Have you ever been in a completely dark space. No light leaks whatsoever?

It was exactly the opposite of that. Pure, depthless, white light.

At the same time, I felt the physical presence of God in that spot where the voice originated from.

Go ahead and consider me batshit insane. I was a paranoid schizo at one point in my life, so I understand if you think this.

For this reason, my fear of what people would think, I did not utter a word to anyone about it for half a decade, with the exception of my psycho queen. And that was only because the second she opened her trailer door and laid eyes on me, she looked stunned and said, "You've found God."

This is all true. I will swear on a stack of Bibles this is all true.

I don't know how long I was hanging with God inside that light. Time simply stopped. But this salvation, that's the only thing I can call it, washed over me for some length and brought me the peace of mind I had been seeking my entire life.

I don't know why I took so long, but I picked up a Bible a few years later and it was not the same book. My heart was no longer hardened. I no longer felt God hated me. My filters were gone. My bias was gone.

That book was so profoundly different, I laughed my ass off several times as I read it.

Joy, joy, joy.

The light eventually left and I was back behind the wheel of a speeding motor vehicle on a Mississippi country highway.

"HUH!" What!!! Who was driving during all this?


There's an expression which goes, "If you sober up a horse thief, all you have is a sober horse thief."

This is totally true.

My needle swung from one extreme to the other. I went instantly from a militant atheist to one of those really obnoxious assholes who knows God's Will not just for himself, but for EVERYONE.

That's a really embarrassing part of my life, and I am not going to delve into it. Suffice it to say I had to suffer extreme emotional and spiritual pain to snap out of it.

I was an idiot who believed God's Will and my will were the same thing. Just imagine where that egomaniacal idiocy will lead you.

You cannot imagine.


This is the thing.

I had been angry at God for not doing his job protecting me and cancer kids and all the war dead and boy I had a laundry list let me tell you.

In other words, I wrote God's job description and gave him a really bad annual eval for his substandard performance.

So the thing is, when you are trying to boss God around, you are making yourself bigger than the biggest thing in the Universe.

The word ego doesn't even begin to touch that bullshit.
g5000 is Lord Long Rod.
 
Two crazy people have crazy arguments. For example, she was smoking pot one night with a girlfriend when I came home to the trailer. For reasons I don't want to go into, it was imperative I grab that shit and threw it out into the weeds behind her trailer.
All that text and this is the part you decide not to tell us?
 
And I doubt anyone of importance would characterize the people who significantly raised standards relative to their contemporaries which still challenge man to this day as primitive dumbasses.

they lied, judaism - there are no heavenly commandments and use deception for their own purposes and those alone. their sin is a curse on humanity and is repudiated by jesus and those others that gave their lives in the 1st century for the true heavenly goal of self determination.
 
200 million people who were murdered by rabid atheists in the 20th century might disagree with you on that.

the desert dwellers have been murdering unimpeded since their self made beginnings to the present day ... they are their own reason for the claims they make.

1742095040923.webp


christians have been more than exemplar in their zealotry ...
 
Jesus died for our sins.
* clue: find something real - if no news, then try no bible - in some ways they are one in the same.

the 1st century is the repudiation of judaism false commandments, hereditary idolatry religion of apartheid ... or what rabid desert dwellers claim - makes no difference ...

jesus did not take their own life it was taken from them - they had plenty more to say.
 
I have yet to hear a cogent explanation as to why Judaism and Christianity that honors the same early books of the bible completely disagree on Jesus as the personification of God.
 
they lied, judaism - there are no heavenly commandments and use deception for their own purposes and those alone. their sin is a curse on humanity and is repudiated by jesus and those others that gave their lives in the 1st century for the true heavenly goal of self determination.
Where’s you evidence?
 
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