Zone1 Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us?

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Doesn't noise and sound mean the same thing though?

No. A person, or even an animal, will hear noises. The noise is the stimulation of senses that sends a signal to the brain that forms an impression in the mind. Sound is the physical action of sound waves. These are two different things that don't depend on each other to exist.

 

[Road Runner]

But there have been several major scientific experiments trying to prove we live in a simulation...

Stitch! He doesn't mean you!! Wrong kind of experiment.

 

[Road Runner]

No. A person, or even an animal, will hear noises. The noise is the stimulation of senses that sends a signal to the brain that forms an impression in the mind. Sound is the physical action of sound waves. These are two different things that don't depend on each other to exist.

Interesting.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I have tinnitus and hear a ringing noise in my ears that is not caused by a sound wave, just damaged nerves sending a phantom signal to my brain.

Also, there can be ultrasonic sound waves that you never hear the noise of.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Let me think, what was it that the first humans did that was so evil

Well, let's see. Giving dominion of the earth over to Satan was pretty egregious. God forgave them right away and covered their sin temporarily with the blood of an animal. The same thing He told the Jews to do. That didn't change the damage that was done. That took Jesus Christ to rectify.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I wondered when the original sin issue would come up. Let me think, what was it that the first humans did that was so evil as to never be rid of the sins of our fathers (and mothers)? What was that horrible thing that caused endless generations to suffer for eternity because they weren't asking for forgiveness for something that happened generations ago, something they never did? It must have been pretty bad, like worse than Donald Trump bad.

Like it or not, the fault for transmitting tainted blood to the generations is one of those bad things the first humans did, not God. They ingested some bad fruit. Even so, God will forgive anything but blaspheming the Holy Spirit, but that doesn't change the circumstance. Tainted blood warrants a blood transfusion. It is why Jesus is called the Second Adam. Jesus substituted His pure blood for our contaminated blood and accomplished this:

• The blood redeems – Revelation 5:9, Colossians 1:14
• The blood purchases – Acts 20:28
• The blood washes – Revelation 1:5
• The blood justifies – Romans 5:9
• The blood saves – Romans 5:9
• The blood forgives – Ephesians 1:7
• The blood draws nigh – Ephesians 2:13
• The blood purges – Hebrews 9:14
• The blood cleanses – 1 John 1:7

 

[The Irish Ram]

Doesn't noise and sound mean the same thing though?

You can't have one without the other. Sound travels in waves, the waves make noise. Without sound, there is no noise. Sound is noise, unless you're an atom.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

You can't have one without the other. Sound travels in waves, the waves make noise. Without sound, there is no noise. Sound is noise, unless you're an atom.

Bullshit, people hear noises that aren't there all the time. The noise is in your head, the sound waves outside your body will trigger that, but so will other things like mental disorders and drugs.

I clearly stated facts in my earlier posts (all three), your reading comprehension needs work.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I think that if people can offer me a point/counterpoint rebuttal, that would be very useful for me. A point-by-point response is best for my purposes.

A few folks here have done just that, and I thank them. Of course, alternate theories are always welcomed. I would be grateful for source links as well.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Bullshit, people hear noises that aren't there all the time. The noise is in your head, the sound waves outside your body will trigger that, but so will other things like mental disorders and drugs.

I clearly stated facts in my earlier posts (all three), your reading comprehension needs work.

^Do you hear voices in your head when you do drugs? None of that has anything to do with the science of waves of sound and noise. That just means you're nuts...

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

^Do you hear voices in your head when you do drugs? None of that has anything to do with the science of waves of sound and noise. That just means you're nuts...

Some people will never get it, and some refuse to hear it.

Yeah, buddy, I'm Loony Tunes. No need to burden yourself with crazy people, now go run along.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Some people will never get it, and some refuse to hear it.

Yeah, buddy, I'm Loony Tunes. No need to burden yourself with crazy people, now go run along.

I am unburdened by what has been, so I think I'll just stick around to see what voices in your head create sound waves...

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I am unburdened by what has been, so I think I'll just stick around to see what voices in your head create sound waves...

You'll wait a long time then, as this thread is about an entirely different subject than acoustics and physiology.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Now, to get on topic.

I'm going with a dark and evil universe angle, apparently an idea not well understood. Look at the "law of the jungle", kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. If it is true that we are the microcosm, and "as above so below", then these laws of nature must apply to the spiritual. With that in mind, that would place human souls extremely low on the food chain IMO.

I'm not searching for truth or any answers to deep philosophical questions, just proposing a conspiracy theory of sorts, that we have the whole God and the devil relationship backward. That what God said was "good" back in the beginning was propaganda as was the devil's motivations as told in the popular story.

I like to think of it as being the ultimate Devil's advocate. Also, the way everything gets politicized these days, why the hell not?

 

[ding]

Personally, I don't believe you go to either. There has never been a definite place. We all hear stories about it. But no concrete evidence.

Ok, so what does happen?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Now, to get on topic.

I'm going with a dark and evil universe angle, apparently an idea not well understood. Look at the "law of the jungle", kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. If it is true that we are the microcosm, and "as above so below", then these laws of nature must apply to the spiritual. With that in mind, that would place human souls extremely low on the food chain IMO.

I'm not searching for truth or any answers to deep philosophical questions, just proposing a conspiracy theory of sorts, that we have the whole God and the devil relationship backward. That what God said was "good" back in the beginning was propaganda as was the devil's motivations as told in the popular story.

I like to think of it as being the ultimate Devil's advocate. Also, the way everything gets politicized these days, why the hell not?

Then I would direct you to this:
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

There is no reason why natural law should apply to the spiritual. Lots of laws have nothing to do with the law of nature. You have 0 proof. It is pure conjecture on your part. Does the Law of Vibration rely on nature? What souls do you feel are higher than a human soul on the food chain?
Natural can't walk on water. Spiritual can.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Then I would direct you to this:
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

There is no reason why natural laws should apply to the spiritual. You have 0 proof of that. It is pure conjecture on your part. What souls do you feel are higher than a human soul on the food chain?
Natural can't walk on water. Spiritual can.

Yes, conjecture on my part, it's pure fiction. Due to your reading comprehension problem, I will repeat the following . . . "I'm not searching for truth or any answers to deep philosophical questions, just proposing a conspiracy theory"

You do have a valid point that there is no reason to assume that the spiritual realm operates like the natural systems we experience in our mortal realm. On the other hand, why wouldn't it? Perhaps you can enlighten us on that point? Why wouldn't the spiritual realm operate with similar laws of nature as in reality?

 

[kjw47]

I have been thinking a lot about the popular beliefs around heaven and hell and can't justify any of it. My line of thinking is a comparison/contrast of the afterlife and our current situation as mortal beings on planet Earth. Let's look at some points of consideration.

If you lived as a good soul, and you pass inspection at the final judgement, once you die, then heaven is where you will spend eternity.

If you are an evil soul, and you don't pass inspection after death, you spend eternity in HELL!

Immediately I can see that regardless of any good or evil acts during my mortal existence that I will have eternal life after death. Where I go is up for debate.

Now, what do we have that we will lose or gain one way or the other?

In my perfect and pure eternal body in my heavenly abode, I will live without hunger, thirst, carnal desires (hopefully not), and other undesirable aspects of human existence. No sickness or disease, no pain, and no death.


Now, in Hell, this is the eternal abode of evil and un-repenting souls who will suffer unspeakable pain forever as a punishment for being evil.

Heaven, is perfect, pleasant, hope fulfilled, and eternal. Hell, is painful, foul, entirely hopeless, and also eternal.

Mortal existence is imperfect, destructive, hopeless (without God), and temporary.

I don't see much difference between our temporary mortal existence and the Hell we are threatened with unless we obey a God that seems far more evil than his fallen angels. I seriously believe if there is a heaven world in the afterlife as described, then this mortal life is Hell on Earth as far as I am concerned.

I find myself having real sympathy for the Devil as the adversary of a God that would believe it was his blessing to create such a dark and evil universe and make us struggle here as mortals, only to die and be judged like this. Even a heavenly afterlife seems evil when I really think about this deal.

Of course, if I go with my other concept, of creation as a heat engine or mere entertainment as a fireworks display for God to be amused, then I really have respect for Satan and his rebellion against God.

I could be a real Satanist if those political posers and their Baphomet BS wasn't the accepted norm now-a-days. It is so true that evil grows with ignorance.

Bottom line, humanity is extremely screwed up and the dark and evil universe created us with natural selection to make sure we ended up this way.

There is no literal eternal suffering-these teach it as literal=2Cor 11:12-15
The bible teaches-144,000 are bought from the Earth( Rev 14:3) = to heaven. No one else is. The righteous( great crowd-Rev 7:9) remain on Earth forever=the new Earth=Gods kingdom rule in full control forever, all things made back to perfection.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Why wouldn't the spiritual realm operate with similar laws of nature as in reality?

Why would they? A horse and a jet can get you where you're going, two completely different ways without using the laws governing the other. Why should the laws that deal with one thing, determine what laws something completely different falls under? The Bible is filled with instances of spiritual laws are not tethered to natural laws. Jesus defied the Law of gravity.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Why would they? A horse and a jet can get you where you're going, two completely different ways without using the laws governing the other. Why should the laws that deal with one thing, determine what laws something completely different falls under? The Bible is filled with instances of spiritual laws are not tethered to natural laws. Jesus defied the Law of gravity.

We are all governed by the laws of nature. Gravity, we aren't even sure what it is yet, but they are working on anti-gravity engines. All you need to oppose gravity is less density than the surrounding air or water mass, then you'd float like a bubble in bathwater.

Laws change with different states of matter and with relative dimensions. From subatomic particles to whole galaxies. I'm NOT surprised you didn't think of that.

So I agree that natural laws act differently under different conditions and statements like "as above, so below" are simplistic and basically wrong. I really like this statement you made.

"Why should the laws that deal with one thing, determine what laws something completely different falls under?"

I'm giving you another one for free. I'm so sorry to have to point that out to you, but you really seem to be struggling now. I'm only admitting this, not because of anything you have tried so hard to express, but because I have ready-made rebuttals for all my crazy talk.

ETA: If my destination is the upper atmosphere or low Earth orbit, my horse would need wings and probably a jet engine. Not to mention oxygen. Of course, Jesus, and Mohammad, floated up into the atmosphere without any wings anyone could see. I might need a Jesus-horse that has risen.