Debunking Liberal Myths About the Rich and the Capital Gains Tax

[DudleySmith]

I think it's mostly based on the conviction that investment income is "money for nothing", that it provides no service to society and requires no effort.

'I.e. based on fact. Nobody buys stocks because they intend to help manage the company and produce anything themselves. They're just gambling on stock prices and dividends. They want 'ownership' without responsibility for profits and posses on share prices while having the govt protect their personal assets from paying from their company's losses, failures, and criminal acts. Then they make up a lot of stupid ideological nonsense hoping nobody notices they're full of shit, they're just making blue sky bets.

 

[hadit]

The few in government are elected delegates of the people under the authority of worker councils. They can be elected at any time and recalled when they're found incompetent or corrupt. Council communism is more democratic than the system of government we have here now in the United States under capitalism.

Do you believe we have a democracy here in the United States? No, we have a plutocratic oligarchy, ruled by big-money capitalists. Do you have democracy in the workplace under capitalism? NO! People spend most of their waking hours, in a totalitarian regime, that refuses to hold elections or care what workers need or want unless those workers unionize and stand up together against their powerful, wealthy, tyrannical employers/exploiters.

Under democratic, council communism, the American people will own the means of production collectively, and it will be managed by their government until each individual consumer has the technology to produce everything they consume without anyone else's assistance. The quickest path to individual freedom and ownership of production is council-communism, especially in the age of advanced automation and artificial intelligence.




No it won't because as I just explained, the people elect their delegates through worker councils. Here in the United States, communists are in favor of gun rights. We recognize the people's right to keep and bear arms, and that includes combat rifles and access to ammunition. We American "commies"/true leftists, believe in empowering the people.

Moreover, we won't have to deal with a capitalist empire like the United States, since we are the USA, converting to communism. No one will abuse us, as we abused communists around the world. The world capitalist bully-empire will convert, becoming communist, hence communists around the world will finally be able to develop their countries without economic embargoes or the threat of war from a big capitalist, 800-pound gorilla.



You apparently, don't understand. The council communism of the 21st century, here in the US, will be adopted willingly by necessity, as the obvious solution, to the mass unemployment and extreme inequality that will ensue when advanced automation and artificial intelligence replace wage labor.

The working class will choose democratic communism with its non-profit, marketless, centrally planned, and publicly owned system of mass production over techo-feudalism.

Under techno-feudalism, the current capitalist ruling class will maintain control over all of the facilities and resources of production, including all of the technology which eliminates the need for human wage-labor. The capitalists are now pushing their cronies in the US government to give every American adult a Universal Income because they realize that without wage labor there are no paying consumers or markets.

The only way to keep capitalism alive for a few more decades, or maybe even a century or two, is by forcing the government to create an artificial, unproductive customer base.

The only purpose of the masses will be to consume the products and services of the capitalist-tech lords, maintaining their power and control. We're heading into a fascist, dystopian cyberpunk nightmare, a techno-feudalistic economy, where people own nothing and are rendered worthless consumers under the heel of the current wealthy owner class.

The tech-lords, the multi-millionaires and billionaires of today, will own everything, and you as a former working-class, now unemployed consumer, will be gradually dispatched and eliminated. Poverty, lack of access to healthcare, education, adequate housing, substance abuse, street crime, mass incarceration, pandemics, vaccines, wars..etc. The ruling techno-feudalists will kill off the worthless, unemployed working class renters.

Ironically, the capitalist ruling class will eventually eliminate all markets and will become the techno-communists living in their high-tech gated communities. Watch this:

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This is the plan. It's to save capitalism with a government check or "universal income"(socialism for the rich = another bailout, that creates an unproductive, artificial customer base of worthless consumers until the rich figure out a way to get rid of them....).




You're just projecting capitalist realities on communism.

This is the old cheap rhetoric and polemic of capitalist apologists when they don't have much of an argument. You're ignoring the context within which communist countries existed in the past and continue to exist in the present, in the shadow of the American empire and its allies.

Be sure to let us know when a straight, pure Communist system actually works and does not descend into authoritarianism that has to force people to stay in it.

 

[dblack]

'I.e. based on fact. Nobody buys stocks because they intend to help manage the company and produce anything themselves. They're just gambling on stock prices and dividends. They want 'ownership' without responsibility for profits and posses on share prices while having the govt protect their personal assets from paying from their company's losses, failures, and criminal acts. Then they make up a lot of stupid ideological nonsense hoping nobody notices they're full of shit, they're just making blue sky bets.

See what I mean?

 

[DudleySmith]

Be sure to let us know when a straight, pure Communist system actually works and does not descend into authoritarianism that has to force people to stay in it.

Because we all know corporations are all run like small free market democracies n stuff, right? The fact is 'too big to fail' trusts, oligarchies, and monopolies are very much the same damn thing as a Commie run state.

 

[hadit]

Because we all know corporations are all run like small free market democracies n stuff, right? The fact is 'too big to fail' trusts, oligarchies, and monopolies are very much the same damn thing as a Commie run state.

The bottom line remains, power will always become concentrated in the hands of a few. It's human nature, since Og got more babes because he clobbered Ug over the head with a club.

 

[DudleySmith]

The bottom line remains, power will always become concentrated in the hands of a few. It's human nature, since Og got more babes because he clobbered Ug over the head with a club.

Rubbish. We had strong anti-trusts laws and enforcement on the books before ; they worked just fine.

 

[jc456]

And when you withdraw you pay regular income tax… not capital gains

still paying taxes on the money I made while in the investment capital gains.

 

[hadit]

Rubbish. We had strong anti-trusts laws and enforcement on the books before ; they worked just fine.

Would you say power is more concentrated in the hands of the few now than it was 200 years ago?

This is my point, no matter what system you think you're creating, power WILL eventually be concentrated in the hands of the few. In a Communist system, the power is in who controls the planners, so guess who is going to become and stay to head up those committees? The same people.

 

[DudleySmith]

Would you say power is more concentrated in the hands of the few now than it was 200 years ago?

This is my point, no matter what system you think you're creating, power WILL eventually be concentrated in the hands of the few. In a Communist system, the power is in who controls the planners, so guess who is going to become and stay to head up those committees? The same people.

Make up all the fake narratives you want, the fact is a strong antitrust govt. agency works wonders. It can't get corrupted for long unless the people let it.

If everything is as corrupt as you will have us believe, then why bother, just buy a lot of guns and and steal everything you want. No need for annoying rubbish like markets and stuff, right?Just let your slaves make all your stuff. lol

 

[jbander]

Incorrect. The market is "owned" by all the investors who have money invested in it.

Do YOU have money in the equity markets?

and the people who have a massive majority of those funds are the ungodly wealthy, You seem to be confused. I said this multiple ways and it is the truth and you can't argue against it with facts , maybe with your alternative facts bu not real facts. The market is owned and operated by the ungodly wealthy , not only the people that control it but also the number of people that are invested in it. gains gains would never exist at 15% if the market money was middle class and poor money. Its time their free ride is over.

 

[jc456]

Make up all the fake narratives you want, the fact is a strong antitrust govt. agency works wonders. It can't get corrupted for long unless the people let it.

If everything is as corrupt as you will have us believe, then why bother, just buy a lot of guns and and steal everything you want. No need for annoying rubbish like markets and stuff, right?Just let your slaves make all your stuff. lol

monopolies are happening today

 

[DudleySmith]

monopolies are happening today

Nobody said they weren't. You should try reading threads and following posts instead of just jumping in with no clue what anybody is talking about.

 

[jc456]

still paying taxes on the money I made while in the investment capital gains.

DudleySmith , so the 401k Is stock and bonds in accounts and the money I put into the fund makes money, and I draw that money out, I was taxed on money I earned not what I put in.

 

[jc456]

Nobody said they weren't. You should try reading threads and following posts instead of just jumping in with no clue what anybody is talking about.

well wait, if you agree monopolies are happening, how is it the antitrust laws protect us? The power went to one!!!!

 

[DudleySmith]

well wait, if you agree monopolies are happening, how is it the antitrust laws protect us? The power went to one!!!!

lol you truly are a moron. You're exactly why Social Security and bnking laws were invented. The Obama bailouts keep you alive.

 

[jbander]

They pay 60 percent of the taxes while they have 80 percent of the wealth shifting the tax burden to working Americans

They also have an army of lawyers and accountants to show as little “income” as possible

The worst part is the long list of things that are taxed at different rate or not at all, all done with tax cuts and tax law written for the wealthy by the wealthy. all 100% against the majority and only made for them, the ungodly wealthy , Time for their free ride to end. All cap gains are income and should be taxed as income there is not one reason in the world other then that the wealthy have all of the cap gains that the law exist.

 

[jc456]

lol you truly are a moron. You're exactly why Social Security and bnking laws were invented. The Obama bailouts keep you alive.

Moron, meet the definition.

What Is a Monopoly? Types, Regulations, and Impact on Markets

Monopoly meaning: A market structure with a single seller that prevents viable competition from providing the same product. Learn more about the meaning of monopoly.

www.investopedia.com

What Is a Monopoly?​

A monopoly is a market structure with a single seller or producer that assumes a dominant position in an industry or a sector. Monopolies are discouraged in free-market economies because they stifle competition, limit consumer substitutes, and thus, limit consumer choice.

 

[hadit]

Make up all the fake narratives you want, the fact is a strong antitrust govt. agency works wonders. It can't get corrupted for long unless the people let it.

If everything is as corrupt as you will have us believe, then why bother, just buy a lot of guns and and steal everything you want. No need for annoying rubbish like markets and stuff, right?Just let your slaves make all your stuff. lol

Do any Communists argue at an above 5-year-old level?

All you're doing is concentrating power in the hands of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats. Do you have the right to review and reject their actions if you don't agree with something they force you to do? With a company, you can shop the competition if you don't like what they do, witness Bud Light. With government, you have no recourse.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Be sure to let us know when a straight, pure Communist system actually works and does not descend into authoritarianism that has to force people to stay in it.

You're just unable to think deeply, so you resort to cheap, irrational, baby-brained arguments. Is there a straight, pure capitalist system? No. The poorest countries in the world aren't socialist, they're capitalist.

The countries that openly identify as socialist, are often attacked by the US capitalist empire (The 800-pound gorilla). Soviet Russia was invaded in 1918 by the United States, UK, France and 12 other countries. There were over 200K foreign troops in Soviet Russia, fighting on the side of the "White Army" (pro-tsarist/capitalist army), vs the Red Army (Socialists). The socialists won, and the invading forces had to leave.

Shortly after that, Soviet Russia was invaded by four million Germans! The Soviet Union lost 9 million soldiers and 18 million Soviet civilians, 14% of its population. Do you know how many Americans died in WW2? Not even half a million. The US lost 0.03% of its population. The US is surrounded by two vast oceans, that kept Germany and Japan from invading it.

The USSR had to pick itself up by its own bootstraps, after WW2, rebuilding its country from the catastrophe it suffered at the hands of the Nazis. There was no Marshal Plan from Uncle Sam for the Russians, they had to rebuild on their own and they still managed to become a World Superpower.

Russia was just a backwater, under-industrialized, agrarian society in 1917, and it became an industrial juggernaut and nuclear superpower, despite all of the challenges it had to overcome. The wars, the economic sanctions from the American capitalist empire, and the Cold War..etc.

You're so dishonest and unfair in your assessment of the socialist project of the 20th century. It was an amazing "go" or try, to establish a communist government and economy at the massive scale of Russia, with all of that territory. Despite all of the obstacles, it made some very impressive accomplishments.

Did capitalism replace feudalism and chattel slavery overnight? Did the European mercantile class, replace the royal aristocracy of Europe with one single swoop of their swords? One event, one war, one single victory, one try, one century..? No. It took hundreds of years before the European merchant class was in a position to replace feudalism and become capitalist industrialists. Technology had to exist, to allow the merchant classes to rise to dominance, to the point that they became the new ruling class. It took centuries and technology to achieve that.

We are now at the brink or edge of a new revolution in production. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to eliminate wage labor, and when that occurs society is forced by necessity to adopt a non-profit, marketless system of mass production. In other words, it's forced due to the circumstances created by advanced automation and artificial intelligence to adopt marketless, high-tech, democratic socialism/communism.

 

[rightwinger]

Do any Communists argue at an above 5-year-old level?

You are an adult who still calls people Comies