Debunking Liberal Myths About the Rich and the Capital Gains Tax

[Soupnazi630]

That sounds like your capitalist parasite buddies, living off of other people's labor. Extracting surplus value from the hard work of other human beings. No one merits billions of dollars, that's nonsense. Communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money:

"A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation-state).[7][8][9]"

Source: Communism - Wikipedia

Communism is the final stage of socialism when the state withers away:

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Due to the individual consumer's control over the means of production, once technology permits. We're now entering into a stage of human production, that is fully automated and led by artificial intelligence. Those are the perfect conditions for democratic communism. It will be adopted by the American people when tens of millions of Americans find themselves unemployed and facing eviction, while the rich are living in opulence.

There is no such thing as surplus value of labor. The labor theory of value is conclusively disproven.

Communism is a tyrannical slave society classes and universal poverty.

Communism is a bereainwashed fanatical belief in the fictional stateless society.AI ajdm automagted technology stes the stage for free market caputalism not communism which always fails

 

[rightwinger]

No shit. It's just taxed differently than ordinary income. Yoar welcome.

It should be taxed the same as earned income

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism is rubbish and useless now in the age of advanced 21st-century automation and artificial intelligence. It's time to finally transition to a non-profit, marketless, more democratic, and centrally planned system of production, that places all of the nation's productive resources in public hands. Private property must also be nationalized, only personal property should exist.

Capitalism works and is needed more than ever in the age of advanced automation and AI.

Public hands means state hands which means enslavement.

Private property and peesonal property are one and the same

 

[rightwinger]

You bring up 401s. Are they subject to Capital gains taxes?

I think they are taxed as income

 

[LibertyKid]

I think they are taxed as income

When you retire. And it can depend if you add money to 401K pre-tax or post tax.

 

[Lesh]

When you retire. And it can depend if you add money to 401K pre-tax or post tax.

As regular income.

Never as capital gains ( the much lower rate)

 

[TruthNotBS]

Herein lies the fatal flaw in that reasoning. There never will be "public hands". You know what you WILL get, every single time? You will get the means of production forcibly wrested from the hands that built it and placed in the hands of the few in government. The means of production will still be in the hands of a few wealthy, powerful people. They will just carry titles like "Minister of the interior", "Central Planning Administer", etc. and where will the people be in all of this? They will be forcibly wrested from a system that allowed them to buy into the means of production, to trade their labor and expertise for money and placed into a system where they have no bargaining power at all because the rich and powerful in the government dictate to them where they are allowed to work and how much they are allowed to earn.

There literally is no "public hands" because it all ends up in the hands of a few very wealthy and very powerful people who then have dictatorial power over the rest of the population. This is why communism inevitably ends up a dictatorship.

Herein lies the fatal flaw in that reasoning. There never will be "public hands". You know what you WILL get, every single time? You will get the means of production forcibly wrested from the hands that built it and placed in the hands of the few in government.

The few in government are elected delegates of the people under the authority of worker councils. They can be elected at any time and recalled when they're found incompetent or corrupt. Council communism is more democratic than the system of government we have here now in the United States under capitalism.

Do you believe we have a democracy here in the United States? No, we have a plutocratic oligarchy, ruled by big-money capitalists. Do you have democracy in the workplace under capitalism? NO! People spend most of their waking hours, in a totalitarian regime, that refuses to hold elections or care what workers need or want unless those workers unionize and stand up together against their powerful, wealthy, tyrannical employers/exploiters.

Under democratic, council communism, the American people will own the means of production collectively, and it will be managed by their government until each individual consumer has the technology to produce everything they consume without anyone else's assistance. The quickest path to individual freedom and ownership of production is council-communism, especially in the age of advanced automation and artificial intelligence.

The means of production will still be in the hands of a few wealthy, powerful people.

No it won't because as I just explained, the people elect their delegates through worker councils. Here in the United States, communists are in favor of gun rights. We recognize the people's right to keep and bear arms, and that includes combat rifles and access to ammunition. We American "commies"/true leftists, believe in empowering the people.

Moreover, we won't have to deal with a capitalist empire like the United States, since we are the USA, converting to communism. No one will abuse us, as we abused communists around the world. The world capitalist bully-empire will convert, becoming communist, hence communists around the world will finally be able to develop their countries without economic embargoes or the threat of war from a big capitalist, 800-pound gorilla.

They will just carry titles like "Minister of the interior", "Central Planning Administer", etc. and where will the people be in all of this? They will be forcibly wrested from a system that allowed them to buy into the means of production, to trade their labor and expertise for money and placed into a system where they have no bargaining power at all because the rich and powerful in the government dictate to them where they are allowed to work and how much they are allowed to earn.

You apparently, don't understand. The council communism of the 21st century, here in the US, will be adopted willingly by necessity, as the obvious solution, to the mass unemployment and extreme inequality that will ensue when advanced automation and artificial intelligence replace wage labor.

The working class will choose democratic communism with its non-profit, marketless, centrally planned, and publicly owned system of mass production over techo-feudalism.

Under techno-feudalism, the current capitalist ruling class will maintain control over all of the facilities and resources of production, including all of the technology which eliminates the need for human wage-labor. The capitalists are now pushing their cronies in the US government to give every American adult a Universal Income because they realize that without wage labor there are no paying consumers or markets.

The only way to keep capitalism alive for a few more decades, or maybe even a century or two, is by forcing the government to create an artificial, unproductive customer base.

The only purpose of the masses will be to consume the products and services of the capitalist-tech lords, maintaining their power and control. We're heading into a fascist, dystopian cyberpunk nightmare, a techno-feudalistic economy, where people own nothing and are rendered worthless consumers under the heel of the current wealthy owner class.

The tech-lords, the multi-millionaires and billionaires of today, will own everything, and you as a former working-class, now unemployed consumer, will be gradually dispatched and eliminated. Poverty, lack of access to healthcare, education, adequate housing, substance abuse, street crime, mass incarceration, pandemics, vaccines, wars..etc. The ruling techno-feudalists will kill off the worthless, unemployed working class renters.

Ironically, the capitalist ruling class will eventually eliminate all markets and will become the techno-communists living in their high-tech gated communities. Watch this:

​

This is the plan. It's to save capitalism with a government check or "universal income"(socialism for the rich = another bailout, that creates an unproductive, artificial customer base of worthless consumers until the rich figure out a way to get rid of them....).

There literally is no "public hands" because it all ends up in the hands of a few very wealthy and very powerful people who then have dictatorial power over the rest of the population. This is why communism inevitably ends up a dictatorship.

You're just projecting capitalist realities on communism.

This is the old cheap rhetoric and polemic of capitalist apologists when they don't have much of an argument. You're ignoring the context within which communist countries existed in the past and continue to exist in the present, in the shadow of the American empire and its allies.

 

[jc456]

Not even close, The market is owned by the wealthy. Were would you even get that bullshit.

The market is owned by the banks and why obammy saved the banks in 2009

 

[jc456]

As regular income.

Never as capital gains ( the much lower rate)

actually, the 401K investment is in the market, so taxes are actually capital gains related if you withdraw.

 

[Lesh]

actually, the 401K investment is in the market, so taxes are actually capital gains related if you withdraw.

No. They are not. Do you have a 401?

 

[jc456]

No. They are not. Do you have a 401?

I do, the money I put in is pretaxed. That money is invested within the portfolio, and therefore makes money on the pretaxed money. So technically, I'm paying taxes on money gained if there was a gain.

 

[Lesh]

I do, the money I put in is pretaxed. That money is invested within the portfolio, and therefore makes money on the pretaxed money. So technically, I'm paying taxes on money gained if there was a gain.

And when you withdraw you pay regular income tax… not capital gains

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

More rubbish. The solution is to implement strong anti-trust laws and enforce them vigorously, as was done after the end of WW II. up until the 1960's, when the technocrats on both the right and the left began unraveling competition and innovation and crushing small and medium businesses. Doing away with the 'corporate personhood' scam will do wonders for that as well.

Doing away with the 'corporate personhood' scam will do wonders for that as well.

How will that help?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Human labor produces everything not billionaires. These billionaires have teams of scientists and engineers doing the actual "inventing". Much of it is funded by the US government.

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

Where does the government get the money to fund the research?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That sounds like your capitalist parasite buddies, living off of other people's labor. Extracting surplus value from the hard work of other human beings. No one merits billions of dollars, that's nonsense. Communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money:

"A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation-state).[7][8][9]"

Source: Communism - Wikipedia

Communism is the final stage of socialism when the state withers away:

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Due to the individual consumer's control over the means of production, once technology permits. We're now entering into a stage of human production, that is fully automated and led by artificial intelligence. Those are the perfect conditions for democratic communism. It will be adopted by the American people when tens of millions of Americans find themselves unemployed and facing eviction, while the rich are living in opulence.

Extracting surplus value from the hard work of other human beings.

Surplus value? DURR.

The workers should all start their own company and keep their own surplus.
Every single one.
Please link all their success stories here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Educate yourself:

​

Without government, we wouldn't have computers, smartphones, the internet..etc. You're quite ignorant. The Soviets actually invented the first mobile phones:

"The phone rings in your pocket and you start talking!" Leonid Kupriyanovich, inventor of mobile phone

Soviet radio engineer and inventor Leonid Kupriyanovich got a patent in 1957 for a wireless phone device. The first portable cell phone weighed 6.6 lbs. The inventor managed to reduce its weight to 1.1 lbs one year later. In 1961, he presented a portable handset weighing 0.15 lbs only. Back...

russkiymir.ru

The government created ARPANET, with tax dollars. From capitalism.

You're welcome.

The Soviets actually invented the first mobile phones:

And the East Germans created Trabants. DURR

 

[DudleySmith]

Doing away with the 'corporate personhood' scam will do wonders for that as well.

How will that help?

It will increase fiduciary responsibility liability in courts of law, for one, and it will channel more money into real business investments instead of stock speculation for two. Corporate governance and owners being held legally responsible for debts, losses, and crimes committed by their managers has an amazingly positive effect in keeping stock holders interested in what their companies do beyond dividends and today's stock price.

 

[DudleySmith]

The workers should all start their own company

Sure thing!!!

What a dumbass you are.

 

[dblack]

Liberals endlessly argue that the rich are not paying their fair share because many rich people do not pay income taxes but "only" pay capital gains taxes. Many rich people do not work for anyone and therefore do not receive a salary--and thus do not pay income taxes. These rich folks earn their money via capital gains and therefore they pay capital gains taxes.

Okay, well, if you make between $47K and $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 15%. If you make over $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 20%. This is well above the tax rate paid by most employed Americans. Tax data show that 77% of Americans pay an income tax rate of 15%. If your household income is between $22K than $89.4K, your income tax rate is only about 11% (since the income tax is graduated and the first $21K of household income is taxed at a rate of only 10%).

Anyone can confirm these facts by checking the federal capital gains tax brackets and the federal income tax brackets.

So, rich people who earn their money from capital gains do not pay a lower tax rate than most other Americans--they pay a higher tax rate than most other Americans.

Furthermore, these numbers do not include the enormous amount of taxes that many rich people pay in state and local property taxes, and the rich, unlike most other people, do not get a tax deduction for all of those taxes.

I think it's mostly based on the conviction that investment income is "money for nothing", that it provides no service to society and requires no effort.

 

[whitehall]

Capital gains applies to everyone. The dirty little secret is that a poor person who won a car in a lottery wouldn't be able to drive it because he would have to pay the capital gains tax up front. If the owner of a family farm died without a will the family would most likely have to sell the property to pay the death tax that the government suddenly dumped on them. A small time investor would be hurt more by capital gains than the rich investor from selling stocks. Gambling casinos? The government probably gives them a break.