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I would be interested in how he determined those specific meanings, and specifically associated them with each of the purported members of the triumvirate. Those specific connections are not shown in the bible. Your explanation sounds like just another example of a religious leader making up another flowery story and trying to pass it off as divine revelation, since there is nothing in the bible to support it.Dear Colin norris
The UU minister I last discussed the Trinity symbolism with, taught it as meaning Universal TRUTH, Justice and Peace:
The Kingdom of God meaning seeking to live by and establish truth.
Jesus meaning Equal Justice and common Authority of Law for all people to treat each other fairly in relations with each other by the Golden Rule.
The Holy Spirit meaning Peace and harmony to heal restore and unite all Humanity as one.
If the meaning of the Trinity is taught as positive humanitarian values, this helps restore peace and justice by establishing agreement on policies and principles based on common truth and understanding.
NOT coercion, indoctrination, manipulation, misrepresentation etc.
I am guessing your objections refer to either religious abuse or political abuse of authority.
Are you able to make a distinction between true teachings and practice of Christian values and charity?
Vs. The corrupted selfish or politicized abuses of religion for personal bias or benefit.
Usually it is the abusive corrupt side that invokes the criticisms and corrections.
The good meanings and principles behind the laws are used as the common standard of ethics, right and wrong, or true and false. We as people need to have some common understanding of truth justice and equity in order to point out false or abusive "garbage/rubbish" being mistaught to mislead others and cause damage and injustice.
Whatever scale or standard you are using here, to distinguish good from bad teaching/"rubbish", that is the very process of establishing Truth and Justice for the sake of Humanity and Peace that is the purpose and meaning of the Trinity.
Your criticisms do not negate the values behind the Trinity, but demonstrate the universal meaning, importance and process of "seeking to establish common Truth Justice and Peace" universal to all Humanity.
One of the earliest Christian works, the Didache (70 A.D.) records baptism rites as being done in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (Note the singular of "in the name". In the second century (181), one of the Church Fathers noted that trinity begins with the creation story: God, His Word, His Wisdom. God is not confined by space.I would be interested in how he determined those specific meanings, and specifically associated them with each of the purported members of the triumvirate. Those specific connections are not shown in the bible. Your explanation sounds like just another example of a religious leader making up another flowery story and trying to pass it off as divine revelation, since there is nothing in the bible to support it.
Dear Colin norris
The UU minister I last discussed the Trinity symbolism with, taught it as meaning Universal TRUTH, Justice and Peace:
The Kingdom of God meaning seeking to live by and establish truth.
Jesus meaning Equal Justice and common Authority of Law for all people to treat each other fairly in relations with each other by the Golden Rule.
The Holy Spirit meaning Peace and harmony to heal restore and unite all Humanity as one.
If the meaning of the Trinity is taught as positive humanitarian values, this helps restore peace and justice by establishing agreement on policies and principles based on common truth and understanding.
NOT coercion, indoctrination, manipulation, misrepresentation etc.
I am guessing your objections refer to either religious abuse or political abuse of authority.
Are you able to make a distinction between true teachings and practice of Christian values and charity?
Vs. The corrupted selfish or politicized abuses of religion for personal bias or benefit.
Usually it is the abusive corrupt side that invokes the criticisms and corrections.
The good meanings and principles behind the laws are used as the common standard of ethics, right and wrong, or true and false. We as people need to have some common understanding of truth justice and equity in order to point out false or abusive "garbage/rubbish" being mistaught to mislead others and cause damage and injustice.
Whatever scale or standard you are using here, to distinguish good from bad teaching/"rubbish", that is the very process of establishing Truth and Justice for the sake of Humanity and Peace that is the purpose and meaning of the Trinity.
Your criticisms do not negate the values behind the Trinity, but demonstrate the universal meaning, importance and process of "seeking to establish common Truth Justice and Peace" universal to all Humanity.
Yet it's not in the bible. Seems like something that important would have been mentioned in the bible, don't you think? A commentary written a couple hundred years later, that doesn't actually say what you claim is a pretty weak straw to support your claim.One of the earliest Christian works, the Didache (70 A.D.) records baptism rites as being done in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (Note the singular of "in the name". In the second century (181), one of the Church Fathers noted that trinity begins with the creation story: God, His Word, His Wisdom. God is not confined by space.
Some of us find this amazing to contemplate--trying to imagine our own words, our own wisdom not only contained within our own single body, but something that goes beyond space and time and is always there, always remains.
1. Baptism is in the Bible. See Matthew's Gospel. It is in the Didache, written before Matthew's Gospel.Yet it's not in the bible. Seems like something that important would have been mentioned in the bible, don't you think? A commentary written a couple hundred years later, that doesn't actually say what you claim is a pretty weak straw to support your claim.
1. How is baptism in the bible suppose to support your claim?1. Baptism is in the Bible. See Matthew's Gospel. It is in the Didache, written before Matthew's Gospel.
2. God's nature (Trinity) is in Genesis; The first verse says God's spirit was hovering over the waters. By His word creation began. However, it is never forgotten that God is One. Isaiah writes of God, “I am the first and I am the last and besides Me there is no other.” God transcends space and time.
MY you sound heavenly. Do you think that is true or false? Don't look foolish when you answer.Holy shit. You are delusional and hallucinating. Yet you teach kids that rubbish.
Baptism: In the name of the Father, of the Son, of the Holy Spirt.1. How is baptism in the bible suppose to support your claim?
2. "I am the first and the last" specifically denies your claim.
Well, at last you kept the comparison at 3 and 3 but the bible doesn't make that comparison. This is just another example of that so called "DIVINE REVELATION" that TV preachers are so fond of claiming. If it's not in the bible, It's not what we are expected to go by.Baptism: In the name of the Father, of the Son, of the Holy Spirt.
Genesis: Creator, Word, Spirit
It all comes together in "I am the first and the last". Trinity is one, and became an issue when people wanted to divide Creator, Word, Spirit into three. "Trinity" merely explains how they are One, the First and the Last.
Both faiths agree that God is One. No debate there. Where Jews and Christians disagree is over the Word also becoming man. We do not disagree that God is One, the First and the Last; Creator, Word, Spirit.
If you do not care for the word Trinity, don't use it. Oneness Pentecostals are another Christian denomination that do not.
Baptism: In the name of the Father, of the Son, of the Holy Spirt.
Genesis: Creator, Word, Spirit
It all comes together in "I am the first and the last". Trinity is one, and became an issue when people wanted to divide Creator, Word, Spirit into three. "Trinity" merely explains how they are One, the First and the Last.
Both faiths agree that God is One. No debate there. Where Jews and Christians disagree is over the Word also becoming man. We do not disagree that God is One, the First and the Last; Creator, Word, Spirit.
If you do not care for the word Trinity, don't use it. Oneness Pentecostals are another Christian denomination that do not.
There are no contradiction. Only YOUR own lack of understanding.So she found another one of the gazillion contradictions in the bible. Doesn't matter. All the other contradictions are routinely ignored. Why would this one be any different?
Then don't go by it. I think Biblical authors had a reason for using Creator, Word, Spirit not as a picture of three, but as One in a dimension almost impossible for us to imagine or grasp. The mind of the Creator, the power of His Word and His Spirit, not all boxed up as we are in a body--but a grand expansion as infinite as space and time. Think about it...Word that does not fade, Spirit throughout, Creator always present--all the essence of One, indivisible God.If it's not in the bible, It's not what we are expected to go by.
If the Biblical authors believed that, then why didn't they put it in the Bible? Are you saying the Bible is incomplete? What else do you think they left out, but we are supposed to know anyway?Then don't go by it. I think Biblical authors had a reason for using Creator, Word, Spirit not as a picture of three, but as One in a dimension almost impossible for us to imagine or grasp. The mind of the Creator, the power of His Word and His Spirit, not all boxed up as we are in a body--but a grand expansion as infinite as space and time. Think about it...Word that does not fade, Spirit throughout, Creator always present--all the essence of One, indivisible God.
They did put it in the Bible. Again, I refer you to Matthew and Genesis. Hebrew is a picturesque language, unlike English and most others, which are subjective. Why didn't they use "Trinity?" That is like asking why didn't they use "angry" instead of "flaring nostrils".If the Biblical authors believed that, then why didn't they put it in the Bible? Are you saying the Bible is incomplete? What else do you think they left out, but we are supposed to know anyway?
Good. Now we are getting somewhere. Please give the verses in Matthew and Genesis that says that God and the so called trinity are one and the same.They did put it in the Bible. Again, I refer you to Matthew and Genesis. Hebrew is a picturesque language, unlike English and most others, which are subjective. Why didn't they use "Trinity?" That is like asking why didn't they use "angry" instead of "flaring nostrils".
By any chance are you suggesting we should all go back to speaking Hebrew since that was the original Biblical language? Evolution of thoughts/words (such as Trinity) seem to bother you. Once again, you do not need to use the word "Trinity". Those of us who do, understand its meaning, its Oneness. This doesn't mean you are forced to use it or even understand it. I am only explaining what it means to us.
Asked and answered previously.Good. Now we are getting somewhere. Please give the verses in Matthew and Genesis that says that God and the so called trinity are one and the same.
What do you mean by "God Head"? Where is it in the Bible?I see no need for us to go back to using ancient languages, but if you claim those languages define a three in one God Head, then you are required to provide a credible translation to prove it.
Specific verses?Asked and answered previously.
It's a term I've heard referring to the so called trinity. If it bothers you. I will only use the term trinity, or what ever term you are comfortable with.What do you mean by "God Head"? Where is it in the Bible?
Neither term bothers me. Since you seem bothered that the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible, I was wondering why "Godhead" didn't bother you just as much.It's a term I've heard referring to the so called trinity. If it bothers you. I will only use the term trinity, or what ever term you are comfortable with.
