Zone1 What Evidence Do Christians Have For Their Trinity Doctrine? Examining The Evidence.

[Crepitus]

Of course they do

No, they don't. see the definition of faith.

 

[Cougarbear]

I am challenging the Trinitarian Christians to present their case for why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has to be a Trinity. He's not a Quadrinity or just one person, He is supposedly a Triunity or Trinity. What does the preponderance of evidence reasonably point to? One YHWH who is one divine person, namely the Father, or YHWH who is three co-equal, co-eternal, consubstantial divine persons? What is the most reasonable interpretation of the texts of scripture often presented as proof for the Trinity?

My current position is Unitarianism. I assert that there is only one true Almighty YHWH, who is The Father, and everyone else, including Jesus, is His creation. You can use both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian NT, to defend your Trinitarian doctrine. I now leave the floor open. Godspeed.

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word." Now, we know in Christianity, not Unitarianism, that the Word is Jesus Christ. That is who John was referring to when he said the Word (Jesus Christ or Jehovah) was in the beginning. The beginning of what? It does not say. I could be the beginning of the organization of the universe. Or, just that there was a beginning which Christians don't believe.
"And, the Word was with God." So, Jehovah (Jesus Christ) was with God. God who? We believe the Father. The Son was with the Father at the beginning of the universe. So, their are two personages so far.
"And the Word was God." Not sure how and why Jehovah Witnesses destroyed this simple concept that there are two personages in this one verse that say both are "God." This tells me that "God" is not a personal name like Elohim or Jehovah or Jesus. "God" is a title and a position of supreme authority for the universe we live in. So, both the Father (Elohim) and the Son (Jehovah or Jesus Christ) are Gods. While separate beings or personages, the agree in one purpose, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Think of it as a corporation and God the Father is the President and Jesus Christ is the Vice-President. I choose to call this a "Godhead."
So, where does the third member of the Godhead come from in the Bible? The Holy Ghost or Spirit. Matthew 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Ghost)." The third personage of the Trinity or Godhead. All three must be named in the baptismal prayer. Well, there you go...

 

[Invisibleflash]

I am challenging the Trinitarian Christians to present their case for why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has to be a Trinity. He's not a Quadrinity or just one person, He is supposedly a Triunity or Trinity. What does the preponderance of evidence reasonably point to? One YHWH who is one divine person, namely the Father, or YHWH who is three co-equal, co-eternal, consubstantial divine persons? What is the most reasonable interpretation of the texts of scripture often presented as proof for the Trinity?

My current position is Unitarianism. I assert that there is only one true Almighty YHWH, who is The Father, and everyone else, including Jesus, is His creation. You can use both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian NT, to defend your Trinitarian doctrine. I now leave the floor open. Godspeed.

Bub...it is all manmade gobbledygook.
Go to godfinder, pick a god and worship it. But don't you think we got bigger fish to fry than phony gods?

Do you pray, bub? If so, do you think you know better than your god? And what does it say about your god if it listens to you and changes its mind because you grovel enough?

Bub...

 

[Cougarbear]

Bub...it is all manmade gobbledygook.
Go to godfinder, pick a god and worship it. But don't you think we got bigger fish to fry than phony gods?

Do you pray, bub? If so, do you think you know better than your god? And what does it say about your god if it listens to you and changes its mind because you grovel enough?

Bub...

View attachment 934768

This thread isn't for you. So, you can go back to your transgendered boy-girl-it friend and have no firm foundation to life. Tossed to and fro by every whim and doctrine of man.

 

[Meriweather]

I am challenging the Trinitarian Christians to present their case for why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has to be a Trinity. He's not a Quadrinity or just one person, He is supposedly a Triunity or Trinity. What does the preponderance of evidence reasonably point to? One YHWH who is one divine person, namely the Father, or YHWH who is three co-equal, co-eternal, consubstantial divine persons? What is the most reasonable interpretation of the texts of scripture often presented as proof for the Trinity?

My current position is Unitarianism. I assert that there is only one true Almighty YHWH, who is The Father, and everyone else, including Jesus, is His creation. You can use both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian NT, to defend your Trinitarian doctrine. I now leave the floor open. Godspeed.

What "evidence" do you have for your current position? Evidence requires identification through the five senses (touch, taste, smell, sight, hearing). If you have a current photo of the one true God, or a recording of his voice, present it here. Otherwise, do not demand evidence for others' spiritual matters until you have evidence to present of your own spiritual matters.

By definition, matters pertaining to the spirit are outside the physical realm and therefore outside of evidence which is, by its very nature, confined to the physical realm.

Anthropomorphism (assigning human thoughts, feelings, behaviors to non-humans, such as pets, nature, or objects) may be the best way for people of any faith to explain their view of God and how Trinity is first introduced. (1) When God created the heavens and earth
(2) The spirit of God was hovering over a vast wasteland. (3) Creation came about through God's word.

Humans cannot create by speaking a word. Doesn't matter how long I, the baker, hover over the kitchen counter, and many times I say 'cake', creation of a cake will not take place via the spoken word. That's not humanly possible. The creator must come and send his spirit to hover over the place of creation. That spirit can hover endlessly without anything happening. God, the Creator, (not the hovering spirit) must speak. "Light." Without the Word, no light. Here is Creator/Father. Here is Spirit. Here is Word. Three as One.

Think of missing a family event. "I'll be with you in spirit." Our spirits remain within the body. We speak the words, "I'll be with you" but we, with our spirit, remain exactly where we are, apart from the family. We simply created a sentiment that has no physical form.

Try to comprehend this great difference between God and man. God's Holy Spirit can go forth--with God. God's Word can go forth--with God. With no spirit God cannot go forth, He sends His Spirit; with no Word, God cannot create. He must speak. Yet in their separateness of Father/Creator and Spirit and Word, they remain One together.

Is our spirit separate from us? Are our words separate from us? However imperfectly--for we are humans, not God--we model God for we are His creation, His children.

Shrug. I suppose your very self and what makes you, you is the "evidence" you seek for Trinity: But only if you wish to see it using the very poor light of your own humanity.

 

[Votto]

I am challenging the Trinitarian Christians to present their case for why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has to be a Trinity. He's not a Quadrinity or just one person, He is supposedly a Triunity or Trinity. What does the preponderance of evidence reasonably point to? One YHWH who is one divine person, namely the Father, or YHWH who is three co-equal, co-eternal, consubstantial divine persons? What is the most reasonable interpretation of the texts of scripture often presented as proof for the Trinity?

My current position is Unitarianism. I assert that there is only one true Almighty YHWH, who is The Father, and everyone else, including Jesus, is His creation. You can use both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian NT, to defend your Trinitarian doctrine. I now leave the floor open. Godspeed.

You should let Jesus himself answer your question

Matthew 16

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus asks every person on earth this question, "Who do you say I am?" Therefore, we must all answer the question individually. And as we learn, it can only be known if God reveals it to whom he chooses. That is number one.

Number two, when Peter said "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God", what did that mean? Those who do not believe in the trinity downplay the words, "Son of the living God or Messiah". But those words have significant meaning because Jesus later tells his disciples not to tell anyone. Why would he tell them not to tell anyone? If being the Son of God is of no great significance, what gives?

Number three, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy, that is, being an equal to God. And we can surmise that Jesus did not want his disciples to tell people that he was the Son of God and the Messiah because they would assume him to be an equal with God had they done so, which would have accelerated the effort to apprehend him and put him on the cross before he was ready.

As for understanding the concept of the Trinity, man is a triune being as well, body, soul, and spirit. As the Bible states, we are made in the image of God. That is the easiest way to understand something that is very complex.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

As for understanding the concept of the Trinity, man is a triune being as well, body, soul, and spirit. As the Bible states, we are made in the image of God. That is the easiest way to understand something that is very complex

^^^^^^
I agree with everything you said until you added this.

This is not true and comes from Catholicism.

"And God breathed into Man the breath of life, and Man BECAME a living soul."

 

[luiza]

I am challenging the Trinitarian Christians to present their case for why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has to be a Trinity. He's not a Quadrinity or just one person, He is supposedly a Triunity or Trinity. What does the preponderance of evidence reasonably point to? One YHWH who is one divine person, namely the Father, or YHWH who is three co-equal, co-eternal, consubstantial divine persons? What is the most reasonable interpretation of the texts of scripture often presented as proof for the Trinity?

My current position is Unitarianism. I assert that there is only one true Almighty YHWH, who is The Father, and everyone else, including Jesus, is His creation. You can use both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian NT, to defend your Trinitarian doctrine. I now leave the floor open. Godspeed.

The idea of the Trinity is nonsense OP, as I suspect you also believe , but probably more privately .
It is an excellent Control mechanism dreamt up by Paul and the early Church Fathers .
Standard Deep State deception and very well presented and executed .
There are two characters to keep you in line plus the Holy Ghost to keep you fearful and constantly feeling guilty .

I hope to see all three major Abrahamic religions fade into obscurity before I pass over, so that I can welcome the next steps of a more enlightened and spiritual species being absorbed into Universe .
Good bye Cultists .And good riddance .
imho .

 

[norwegen]

The very idea of monotheism suggests that God cannot exist in three distinct persons, and certainly the Bible does not say that God is three distinct “persons.” But Jesus himself said that he and the Father are one (Jn 10:30), and he included the Holy Spirit in this union (Jn 13:20). At first blush, this union admittedly appears unitarian, but, after man’s fall from grace, God did not come as the Father; He came as the Son. The Son intervened in human affairs (1 Cor 10:4), and the Israelites called him God. After reconciliation, the Holy Spirit intervenes in human affairs; he’s the Helper and Intercessor after all (Jn 14:26; Rom 8:26). So is he not God by the same token?

Scriptural clues certainly exist, but perhaps aren't definitive.

 

[Libby von H]

I am challenging the Trinitarian Christians to present their case for why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has to be a Trinity. He's not a Quadrinity or just one person, He is supposedly a Triunity or Trinity. What does the preponderance of evidence reasonably point to? One YHWH who is one divine person, namely the Father, or YHWH who is three co-equal, co-eternal, consubstantial divine persons? What is the most reasonable interpretation of the texts of scripture often presented as proof for the Trinity?

My current position is Unitarianism. I assert that there is only one true Almighty YHWH, who is The Father, and everyone else, including Jesus, is His creation. You can use both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian NT, to defend your Trinitarian doctrine. I now leave the floor open. Godspeed.

I will say 3 things and then ignore you eternally

1) Unitarianism is a lazy position, it knows it must acknowledge a God (from Natural Theology or from Revelation) and so the least it can do is to say ,well God can only be ONE -- though the varities of "one' in history are everything from a Deist monad to 'the universe equals God"

2) If Jesus is the Son of God you are wrong right there

3) I cannot believe that God entrusted the knowledge of His nature (which must be revealed since God's nature cannot be deduced, God being the source of all that could be used in an argument) TO YOU

YOU SEEM A MORON AND I WON"T LET YOU PLAY MY POPE. Trinity has convinced hundreds of millions. I don't argue it anymore than I argue with you if you claim you have certain proof that my mother was a Nazi prison guard. I cheapen myself to argue with a drunk, know what I mean