Could The Trinity Doctrine Be Wrong?

Nah. Just fact and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Carl Popper.

"

3. The Problem of Demarcation​

For Popper the central problem in the philosophy of science is that of demarcation, i.e., of distinguishing between science and what he terms “non-science” (e.g., logic, metaphysics, psychoanalysis, and Adler’s individual psychology). Popper is unusual amongst contemporary philosophers in that he accepts the validity of the Humean critique of induction, and indeed, goes beyond it in arguing that induction is never actually used in science. However, he does not concede that this entails scepticism and argues that the Baconian/Newtonian insistence on the primacy of “pure” observation, as the initial step in the formation of theories, is completely misguided: all observation is selective and theory-laden and there are no pure or theory-free observations. In this way he destabilises the traditional view that science can be distinguished from non-science on the basis of its inductive methodology. In contradistinction to this, Popper holds that there is no unique methodology specific to science; rather, science, like virtually every other organic activity, consists largely of problem-solving.

Popper accordingly rejects the view that induction is the characteristic method of scientific investigation and inference, substituting falsifiability in its place. It is easy, he argues, to obtain evidence in favour of virtually any theory, and he consequently holds that such “corroboration”, as he terms it, should count scientifically only if it is the positive result of a genuinely “risky” prediction, which might conceivably have been false. In a critical sense, Popper’s theory of demarcation is based upon his perception of the asymmetry which, at the level of logic, holds between verification and falsification: it is logically impossible to verify a universal proposition by reference to experience (as Hume saw clearly), but a single genuine counter-instance falsifies the corresponding universal law. In a word, an exception, far from “proving” a rule, conclusively refutes it.

Every genuine scientific theory then, in Popper’s view, is prohibitive, because the theories of natural science take the form of universal statements. “All As are X” is equivalent to “No A is not-X” which is falsified if “Some A is not-X” turns out to be true. For example, the law of the conservation of energy can be expressed as “There is no perpetual motion machine”.

However, the universality of such laws, he argues, does rule out the possibility of their verification. Thus, a theory that has withstood rigorous testing should be deemed to have received a high measure of corroboration. and may be retained provisionally as the best available theory until it is finally falsified and/or is superseded by a better theory.

Popper stresses in particular that there is no unique way, no single method such as induction, which functions as the route to scientific theory, and approvingly cites Einstein on that point:

There is no logical path leading to [the highly universal laws of science]. They can only be reached by intuition, based upon something like an intellectual love of the objects of experience. (2002: 8–9)
Science, in Popper’s view, starts with problems rather than with observations—it is, indeed, precisely in the context of grappling with a problem that the scientist makes observations in the first instance: his observations are selectively designed to test the extent to which a given theory functions as a satisfactory solution to a given problem.

On this criterion of demarcation physics, chemistry, and (non-introspective) psychology, amongst others, are classified as sciences, psychoanalysis is a pre-science and astrology and phrenology are pseudo-sciences."


This was sorted years ago!!!! Your question shows that you are clueless!!!

NEXT!!!!

Greg
 
What the Catholic Church needs to do is show from the Bible how they came up with the Athanasian Creed.
This one??

The Athanasian Creed​



  1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
  2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
  3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
  4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
  5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
  6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
  7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
  8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
  9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
  10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
  11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
  12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
  13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
  14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
  15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
  16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
  17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
  18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
  19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
  20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; there are three Gods or three Lords.
  21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
  22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
  23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
  24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
  25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
  26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
  27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
  28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
  29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
  31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
  32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
  33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
  34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
  35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
  36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
  37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
  38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
  39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
  40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
  41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
  42. And shall give account of their own works.
  43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
  44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Cool, isn't it. I haven't seen that one in years. I'm into the basic stuff..........lol

But from what it says it sounds about right...a bit long though.

Greg
 
Faith means believing the unbelievable.
I have a different perspective on this one. Faith is not necessarily believing in all the miracle stories in the Bible. Pure faith is belief in God and believing that following His teachings then will enrich one's life now.

It would be refreshing if someone would ever come into the Religion Forum and instead of saying, "I don't believe because of things like talking snakes and a young earth creation," they would flat out say, "I don't believe in loving my fellow man. I don't believe in forgiving others. I don't believe in holiness. And that is why I have no faith." Our faith has the foundation in loving God, loving and forgiving others, and striving for the ideal of a holy life (i.e. a God centered life, or a life centered in goodness).

Faith is the size of a mustard seed. All one has to do is have faith that loving and forgiving is a great way to live. They may even run into a few personal miracles along this Way.
 
Carl Popper.

"

3. The Problem of Demarcation​

For Popper the central problem in the philosophy of science is that of demarcation, i.e., of distinguishing between science and what he terms “non-science” (e.g., logic, metaphysics, psychoanalysis, and Adler’s individual psychology). Popper is unusual amongst contemporary philosophers in that he accepts the validity of the Humean critique of induction, and indeed, goes beyond it in arguing that induction is never actually used in science. However, he does not concede that this entails scepticism and argues that the Baconian/Newtonian insistence on the primacy of “pure” observation, as the initial step in the formation of theories, is completely misguided: all observation is selective and theory-laden and there are no pure or theory-free observations. In this way he destabilises the traditional view that science can be distinguished from non-science on the basis of its inductive methodology. In contradistinction to this, Popper holds that there is no unique methodology specific to science; rather, science, like virtually every other organic activity, consists largely of problem-solving.

Popper accordingly rejects the view that induction is the characteristic method of scientific investigation and inference, substituting falsifiability in its place. It is easy, he argues, to obtain evidence in favour of virtually any theory, and he consequently holds that such “corroboration”, as he terms it, should count scientifically only if it is the positive result of a genuinely “risky” prediction, which might conceivably have been false. In a critical sense, Popper’s theory of demarcation is based upon his perception of the asymmetry which, at the level of logic, holds between verification and falsification: it is logically impossible to verify a universal proposition by reference to experience (as Hume saw clearly), but a single genuine counter-instance falsifies the corresponding universal law. In a word, an exception, far from “proving” a rule, conclusively refutes it.

Every genuine scientific theory then, in Popper’s view, is prohibitive, because the theories of natural science take the form of universal statements. “All As are X” is equivalent to “No A is not-X” which is falsified if “Some A is not-X” turns out to be true. For example, the law of the conservation of energy can be expressed as “There is no perpetual motion machine”.

However, the universality of such laws, he argues, does rule out the possibility of their verification. Thus, a theory that has withstood rigorous testing should be deemed to have received a high measure of corroboration. and may be retained provisionally as the best available theory until it is finally falsified and/or is superseded by a better theory.

Popper stresses in particular that there is no unique way, no single method such as induction, which functions as the route to scientific theory, and approvingly cites Einstein on that point:


Science, in Popper’s view, starts with problems rather than with observations—it is, indeed, precisely in the context of grappling with a problem that the scientist makes observations in the first instance: his observations are selectively designed to test the extent to which a given theory functions as a satisfactory solution to a given problem.

On this criterion of demarcation physics, chemistry, and (non-introspective) psychology, amongst others, are classified as sciences, psychoanalysis is a pre-science and astrology and phrenology are pseudo-sciences."


This was sorted years ago!!!! Your question shows that you are clueless!!!

NEXT!!!!

Greg
You are quoting pure rubbish without a sceric of evidence of proof of anything. If that's what you believe, knock yourself out.
Although it was well plagairised.
 
You are quoting pure rubbish without a sceric of evidence of proof of anything. If that's what you believe, knock yourself out.
Although it was well plagairised.
Idiot!! It was properly quoted and referenced!!! You really are not very smart!!!

You said you have "fact"......well what is it? Can you put it in a way that it can be falsified or are you simply repeating some nonsense? The latter is obviously your go!!

Greg
 
In Jesus' day, people would make a production of praying on a street corner. I am sure you remember Jesus praying to his Father in front of crowds, and around his Apostles. Matthew 6:6 is about praying in order to gain personal attention from the citizenry. Jesus remarked about them, they already have their reward, and not the one stored up in heaven.
Ah, like Tim Tebow.
 
Idiot!! It was properly quoted and referenced!!! You really are not very smart!!!

You said you have "fact"......well what is it? Can you put it in a way that it can be falsified or are you simply repeating some nonsense? The latter is obviously your go!!

Can you point out in your story where it proves the existence of a God.
It can't be hard if you gave it.
 
This one??

The Athanasian Creed​



  1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
  2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
  3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
  4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
  5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
  6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
  7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
  8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
  9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
  10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
  11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
  12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
  13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
  14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
  15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
  16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
  17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
  18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
  19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
  20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; there are three Gods or three Lords.
  21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
  22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
  23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
  24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
  25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
  26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
  27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
  28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
  29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
  31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
  32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
  33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
  34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
  35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
  36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
  37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
  38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
  39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
  40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
  41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
  42. And shall give account of their own works.
  43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
  44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Cool, isn't it. I haven't seen that one in years. I'm into the basic stuff..........lol

But from what it says it sounds about right...a bit long though.

Greg

Now if someone could show all of those 44 items in the Bible It would be a start.
 
This Creed was written in the fifth century as a meditation on the Trinity. It repeats over and over again that God is One. Is this troubling you?
What troubles me is the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are considered the same being. Here is a definition from Webster's Dictionary of the word "Being".

being​

noun
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be·ing | \ ˈbē(-i)ŋ \

Definition of being

(Entry 1 of 4)
1a: the quality or state of having existence social movement that came into being in the 1960s artistic form comes into being only when two elements are successfully fused— Carlos Lynes
b(1): something that is conceivable and hence capable of existing
(2): something that actually exists
(3): the totality of existing things
c: conscious existence : LIFE
2: the qualities that constitute an existent thing : ESSENCE I knew it was true in the core of my being. especially : PERSONALITY
3: a living thing sentient beings a mythical being especially : PERSON a very sexual being

I don't believe that without one of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, that the others would not exist. I believe that the Father has his own existence independent of the Son and the Holy Ghost. I also believe that each are separate and distinct beings just as they are separate and distinct persons. Yes, I believe in the oneness of God but I do not believe that this infers that they are the same being. The oneness of God refers to the idea that they are of the same mind and will of the father. In other words, they do not have the same physical brain or physical parts nor do they have the same spiritual brain and spiritual parts. They are 3 separate and distinct beings and persons who are in perfect harmony one with another. They are in perfect agreement and are one in purpose and desire but they are not the same physical or spiritual being. The Father is the primary being of the Godhead, and Jesus and the Holy Ghost subject themselves to the will of the Father and have the purpose and desire to do all things whatsoever the Father would have them do. They have become one with the Father. Each of them as part of the Godhead, are considered Gods, but because of their oneness in agreement, purpose and desire, they are one God in doing the will of the Father. The will of the Father is the same as the will of Son and the will of the Holy Ghost. But this does not infer that they are the same being. The Father is both the spiritual father of Jesus and the Holy Ghost. The Father is also the physical Father of Jesus Christ in the Flesh. They are not the same being just as we are not the same being as our children. John 17 tells us that we all can have the same oneness that Jesus has with the Father. However, this does not imply that we become the same being as the Father or Jesus. That same oneness is to come into harmony with them and have the same purpose and desire and be in complete agreement with them but not to be the same being.

I may be mistaken about it being specifically stated in the Athanasian Creed but more specific in the Nicene Creed.
 
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What troubles me is the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are considered the same being. Here is a definition from Webster's Dictionary of the word "Being".

being​

noun
Save Word
To save this word, you'll need to log in.
Log In

be·ing | \ ˈbē(-i)ŋ \

Definition of being

(Entry 1 of 4)
1a: the quality or state of having existence social movement that came into being in the 1960s artistic form comes into being only when two elements are successfully fused— Carlos Lynes
b(1): something that is conceivable and hence capable of existing
(2): something that actually exists
(3): the totality of existing things
c: conscious existence : LIFE
2: the qualities that constitute an existent thing : ESSENCE I knew it was true in the core of my being. especially : PERSONALITY
3: a living thing sentient beings a mythical being especially : PERSON a very sexual being

I don't believe that without one of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, that the others would not exist. I believe that the Father has his own existence independent of the Son and the Holy Ghost. I also believe that each are separate and distinct beings just as they are separate and distinct persons. Yes, I believe in the oneness of God but I do not believe that this infers that they are the same being. The oneness of God refers to the idea that they are of the same mind and will of the father. In other words, they do not have the same physical brain or physical parts nor do they have the same spiritual brain and spiritual parts. They are 3 separate and distinct beings and persons who are in perfect harmony one with another. They are in perfect agreement and are one in purpose and desire but they are not the same physical or spiritual being. The Father is the primary being of the Godhead, and Jesus and the Holy Ghost subject themselves to the will of the Father and have the purpose and desire to do all things whatsoever the Father would have them do. They have become one with the Father. Each of them as part of the Godhead, are considered Gods, but because of their oneness in agreement, purpose and desire, they are one God in doing the will of the Father. The will of the Father is the same as the will of Son and the will of the Holy Ghost. But this does not infer that they are the same being. The Father is both the spiritual father of Jesus and the Holy Ghost. The Father is also the physical Father of Jesus Christ in the Flesh. They are not the same being just as we are not the same being as our children. John 17 tells us that we all can have the same oneness that Jesus has with the Father. However, this does not imply that we become the same being as the Father or Jesus. That same oneness is to come into harmony with them and have the same purpose and desire and be in complete agreement with them but not to be the same being.

I may be mistaken about it being specifically stated in the Athanasian Creed but more specific in the Nicene Creed.
Who believes that? Semantics really....One but three....nah; I can't explain it. I just accept that I'm not able to understand God's ways. Humbling innit!!!

Greg
 
You are in possession of the "facts" so therefore must be able to REFUTE your the contention. Do so.

Remember though:

Poppers' point is this: no matter how many observations are made which confirm a theory there is always the possibility that a future observation could refute it. Induction cannot yield certainty.

.......

For Popper the scientist should attempt to disprove his/her theory rather than attempt to continually prove it. Popper does think that science can help us progressively approach the truth but we can never be certain that we have the final explanation.




So go ahead; FALSIFY to your heart's content!!

Greg
 

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