Conservatives who oppose withdrawing from Afghanistan, what would you do?

[Mac-7]

What should we have done? What is the solution other than leaving?

I think we should have stayed as long as we could

we held a strategic position that was already paid for in US treasure and lives

The cost of maintaining that advantage was relatively low and we gave it away

 

[Scottish_Brexiteer_UK]

Love the couple of leftists and Democrats trying to point-score about Trump wanting to withdraw the troops.

Fact of the matter is this

1- He didn't.
2- He didn't get the chance to (if he was going to).
3- Jo Biden did - and has made a rip-roaring arse of it.

That's the only 3 facts that matter.

No if's or buts or whataboutary.

Besides if Trump was in charge and withdrew the troops like I think he wanted to, I don't think he would have done it in this manner and made this mess. There's ways of doing things. Different ways.

Different approaches, tactics and policies.

It's not as black and white as you're attempting to make out in order to engage in ridiculous and irrelevant whataboutary.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Love the couple of leftists and Democrats trying to point-score about Trump wanting to withdraw the troops.

Fact of the matter is this

1- He didn't.
2- He didn't get the chance to (if he was going to).
3- Jo Biden did - and has made a rip-roaring arse of it.

That's the only 3 facts that matter.

No if's or buts or whataboutary.

Besides if Trump was in charge and withdrew the troops like I think he wanted to, I don't think he would have done it in this manner and made this mess. There's ways of doing things. Different ways.

Different approaches, tactics and policies.

It's not as black and white as you're attempting to make out in order to engage in ridiculous and irrelevant whataboutary.

You're FOS.

February 29 2020
"Soon, at my direction, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will witness the signing of an agreement with representatives of the Taliban, while Secretary of Defense Mark Esper will issue a joint declaration with the government of Afghanistan. If the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan live up to these commitments, we will have a powerful path forward to end the war in Afghanistan and bring our troops home," Trump said.

The orange idiot, had 11 months to with draw, 48 months if you count the bluster of his presidency.

 

[Scottish_Brexiteer_UK]

You're FOS.

February 29 2020
"Soon, at my direction, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will witness the signing of an agreement with representatives of the Taliban, while Secretary of Defense Mark Esper will issue a joint declaration with the government of Afghanistan. If the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan live up to these commitments, we will have a powerful path forward to end the war in Afghanistan and bring our troops home," Trump said.

The orange idiot, had 11 months to with draw, 48 months if you count the bluster of his presidency.

Thanks for just proving my point that it's not an easy thing to do, it's complex and takes time with it being a gradual process.

You've just highlighted why Biden is an amateur and made an arse of it.

Thanks.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Why?

Because 9-11 is more recent and residual to our security than WWII.

 

[CowboyTed]

A lot of us did think and say that. Saudi Arabia still teaches their kids in their schools that the US is the great Satan. Fuck em.

Personally I would pull our military entirely out of the middle east. Let them create their own hell and rot in it

How does that help the Oil Lobby and Defence contractors (irony 'Defence')...

Biden is right... Get off Oil as much as responsibly possible, stop becoming the Israeli mercenary force...

Think about the reason OBL said he attacked US... He attacked because US involvement in the ME... Generally if US stay at home, nobody in the ME gives a fuck..

ME will eventually wan to engage with the world on there terms and let them...

Iran doesn't want sanctions (well the general people don't)... Iran has moderates who would generally win elections but they have hardliners much like US has hardliners who want war and bombing and crap... Stop feeding these elements on both sides, Iran offered to stop supporting terrorists , nuclear for US to stop threatening them, lift sanctions and make sure Palestine is some what grand as an opening offer in 2003..

 

[CowboyTed]

Thanks for just proving my point that it's not an easy thing to do, it's complex and takes time with it being a gradual process.

You've just highlighted why Biden is an amateur and made an arse of it.

Thanks.

Biden had a choice :

1. Stick by the deal and withdraw
2. Increase the deployment to at least 20k but probably 50k and prepare for a spring surge

Taliban have been getting more and more powerful since that deal was signed..

Biden move was to take US troops off the field and leave Afghan to a civil war... Turned out Taliban were way too powerful, showed how much of complete waste of money that was..

Spend a trillion dollars for an army that couldn't last a few weeks...

Biden's mistake wasn't telling the Afghan Government to fuck off and formally give the country to Taliban in a coordinated fashion like when Britain left Ireland...

 

[CowboyTed]

I think we should have stayed as long as we could

we held a strategic position that was already paid for in US treasure and lives

The cost of maintaining that advantage was relatively low and we gave it away

Afghan is really that strategic...

Need to see the Trump deal but I assume there is something in it that says Taliban will stop terrorist camps or there will be bombs..

 

[Mac1958]

Biden had a choice :

1. Stick by the deal and withdraw
2. Increase the deployment to at least 20k but probably 50k and prepare for a spring surge

Taliban have been getting more and more powerful since that deal was signed..

Biden move was to take US troops off the field and leave Afghan to a civil war... Turned out Taliban were way too powerful, showed how much of complete waste of money that was..

Spend a trillion dollars for an army that couldn't last a few weeks...

Biden's mistake wasn't telling the Afghan Government to fuck off and formally give the country to Taliban in a coordinated fashion like when Britain left Ireland...

There's no doubt that this has been ugly.

We'll see what information comes out in the next weeks and months that sheds some light on this. For me, it's not that we left, it's the way we did it. If Biden had bad information or lousy intelligence from the ground, or if the former guy set him poorly, fine. But if this was a fully unforced error, then that's what it was, and the buck stops with him.

This is on Biden. We just don't have the full picture yet.

 

[zaangalewa]

A couple things. First. We never engaged in Nation Building. We just didn’t.

After War II we rebuilt Europe with the Marshal Plan. That transferred about $200 billion in today’s dollars for economic growth. We built factories. Helped the Europeans jump start their economy. Volkswagen is one example. A ginormous company today. It was a shattered factory after the war.

We produced cheap cars - that's all. The Marshal plan moved money from Europe to the USA and goods from the USA to Europe - with exorbitant high prices which no one was able to pay in Germany. That's why the German government subventioned the Marshall plan. Nevertheless the Marshall plan was for Germany a big deal on another reason: You did not exclude Germany from the Marshall plan. This was a big step back into normal life.

We did much the same thing in Japan. Jump Starting their economy to help them recover.

Hmm. ... I always admired Japan, because it was the first not-European nation with an industrial evolution. You underestimate the Japanese. As well in Japan and Germany "nation building" never was a real job of the USA. You found friends - that's much more important.

If we had engaged in Nation Building in Afghanistan we would have been working on the infrastructure needed to operate a modern economy. We didn’t. We would have been engaged in Civics lessons for the people so they could grasp the purpose of Government. We didn’t.

We were never engaged in Nation Building. We barely engaged in clearing minefields from the Russian Invasion.

We wanted help in identifying hostiles and provided diddly squat in return.

People say we didn’t fight to win. We fought. We just refused to invest in the non military things that would have ensured an actual victory.

I actually admired McCain when he said we would stay for a hundred years if that was what it took. He at least realized the nation building would take a hell of a long time and we had not even begun yet.

We were never nation building. We were hoping the Afghans would meander in a drunken manner towards a Modern society.

More easy: You made an army with 25% deserters a year where analphabets used most modern equipment which they were not able to repair or to produce on their own and which needs high industrial standards in the background. And this army got no money in the last few month - and often not even something to eat - since you did not pay them any longer and the government in Kabul had to do so. But the Taliban produce their own Kalaschnikovs. So 70,000 Taliban wan against a modern army with 300,000 soldiers. I guess next time we should send an army of knights, samurai and farmers into such a game.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Thanks for just proving my point that it's not an easy thing to do, it's complex and takes time with it being a gradual process.

You've just highlighted why Biden is an amateur and made an arse of it.

Thanks.

Sure he did.

November 17 2020
Republican officials aren’t too happy about President Trump’s decision to pull troops out of Afghanistan. In fact, some are downright fussy about the whole affair. Apparently, 19 years of war isn’t enough for some people.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) criticized the president’s plan for a quick drawdown of U.S. forces in the region. He argued that it would help American’s enemies. “A rapid withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan now would hurt our allies and delight the people who wish us harm,” he said.

This isn’t the first time the lawmaker spoke out against bringing troops home from the Middle East. Last year, he bashed the president’s decision to remove U.S. soldiers from northern Syria and went so far as to introduce a measure opposing the withdrawal.

In a speech on the Senate floor, McConnell argued that removing soldiers from the region would “embolden” the Taliban which is not living up to its end of the peace deal negotiated in February. He insisted that a withdrawal would give radical Islamic terrorist groups like al Qaeda “a big, big propaganda victory and a renewed safe haven for plotting attacks against America.”

Sen. Marco Rubion (R-FL) argued that leaving Afghanistan would hamper the nation’s ability to combat terrorism. “The concern would be it would turn into a Saigon-type of situation where it would fall very quickly and then our ability to conduct operations against terrorist elements in the region could be compromised,” he said. “That’s my primary concern right now.”
Other GOP lawmakers speculated that an exit from the country could empower the Taliban to threaten the Afghan goverment. “You can’t simply unilaterally draw down troops,” said Sen. Mike Rounds (R-SD), a member of the Armed Services Committee. “I think it’s a serious mistake to unilaterally walk away.”

Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), who has traveled to Afghanistan with Trump, said he was “hoping that the president listens and takes advice from the men and women on the ground, the commanders in the field.” And Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said a 2,500-troop contingency “may be the residual force that protects us from a collapse.”

Despite the criticism, President Trump has remained steadfast in his commitment to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and other areas of the Middle East. Last week, he fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper because he opposed the reducing of troop levels in the region.

The same would have happened with any president, going back to Bush, NONE had an exit strategy.
How much longer did you and your party want us to stay?
So, they MUST have had a plan right?
In 20 years?

 

[Mac-7]

Need to see the Trump deal but I assume there is something in it that says Taliban will stop terrorist camps or there will be bombs..

I dont think trump had a better handle on afghanistan than biden does

this is one of those increasingly few times when politics should stop at the waters edge

 

[zaangalewa]

What does the fucking shithole known as Afghanistan have that is worth this

This I often ask myselve about the shithole USA - but from time to time some of you have some really good ideas. You are not one of them.

 

[zaangalewa]

Most Americans agreed that we needed to vacate Afghanistan.
But that we should have left with honor and dignity.
Not sneak away like a thief fleeing in the middle of the night.
Which made our country look weak and pathetic. ...

Anti-Semite, someone who speaks in his signature about "Auschwitz lies" has no need to speak about honor and dignity.

 

[zaangalewa]

What should we do? Nothing but gtfo there. If the constitute a threat in the future send a few nice bombs from far away.

What's nonsense. I guess no one is more surprised than the Taliban on their own how easy it was to conquer Afghanistan. I don't think they have any concept what to do now. We will see.

 

[Flash]

 

[Flash]

The Worthless Negro fucked up everything, didn't he?

Why in the hell would anybody release Muslim terrorists? Only a filthy ass Muslim lover.

 

[Flash]

 

[Desperado]

1. as usual, it has nothing to do with being conservative/'''''other'''' etc---like a lot of issues today
2. anyone that knows history, knows you can't do nation building/etc
3. it was the ''liberals'' that fkd up in Vietnam/Bay of Pigs/etc

The Neo-Con s were at the forefront regime change in Afghanistan

 

[Theowl32]

Part we agree on: I agree that the Taliban enabled Al Qaeda who attacked the United States. And that means I totally support our attacking and destroying the Taliban and paying them back many times over for what they did to us. And I had no problem with our military staying involved and keeping them down by bombing and whatever else we wanted to do to them for as long as we need to keep them from being a threat and as a warning others what we will do to them.

What I don't agree with: Nation building in Afghanistan. It's a tribal country. Russia failed to control it. Britain failed four times. We had no chance. We should not have invaded and tried to build a government there. To maintain the government, we will have to stay for centuries. That is insane. W was a moron and really screwed us by putting us in an impossible situation where we could never leave.

It's really unfortunate that we sent so many Americans who fought and died for our country. My niece was in the military there and her husband did at least five tours that I remember. Now we pull out and it falls negating their sacrifice and the price we and they paid. I feel genuinely bad about that.

But what choice do we have? We have been there for almost 20 years and they aren't remotely able to support themselves. They won't be in our lifetimes. They won't be in our children's lifetimes.

What should we have done? What is the solution other than leaving? I can't believe Bush went in without realizing this is how at one point or another it would end.

U.S. troops leaving Afghanistan teetering on the brink of all-out civil war

As CBS News visits the viciously contested front line, it's clear U.S. troops are leaving behind an Afghan security force struggling to fend off a resurgent Taliban.

www.cbsnews.com

The LOGISTICAL reality of war isn't just about winning battles. No

WAR is about establishing a NEW REALITY. The REVOLUTIONARY WAR is one prime example.

When WARS ARE WON it is essential that a new REALITY IS ESABLISHED. That, takes years and aggravation, and unreal pain that can last years if not decades.

Failure in this regard is so devastating. It erases any and all blood shed for the years it took to win the battles and in the end the original goal is meaningless.

This is the reality of war, reality of our sad modern world and reality of where we are headed.

LOGISTICAL reality is what amateurs never grasp nor understand. We couldn't and shouldn't have ever even entertained the idea of the US leaving Afghanistan.

Now, we are all seeing why. Whatever the US accomplished and whatever blood was spilled over the last (close to) 20 years has now officially been in vain.

This goes for conservatives too that don't understand the reality of war and logistical reality.

The answer is never simple. Let me put it this way. That region isn't a place that can be ignored nor should be. Lest we forget, the warring factions will NOT STOP until the world is converted to Islam or dead.

Period.


So, when should the US withdraw? When there are no more of those factions planning our and everyone's ultimate destruction.

It's no great pleasure of mine to come out and say it, but this war the US is in, is not and will never be what any other war has been.

It's a war that will last until Jesus returns. That is the sad, haunting, and absolute truth.