If the baker does not want to bake a cake for you, why would you want the cake that he is being forced to bake for you?
Oh, I wouldn't want to force him.
But I would totally report his lawbreaking to the appropriate authorities.
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If the baker does not want to bake a cake for you, why would you want the cake that he is being forced to bake for you?
Shush, the grownups are talking.
Sure they do. But the funny thing is, in most cases, they don't walk away from good money if they don't approve of the marriage. As I've pointed out, there's no religious purpose to a wedding cake. In fact, it is a pagan tradition that passed on to the Christian world. (Except the Romans baked their cakes in the shape of genitals to encourage fertility.)
And Philips doesn't have to be a baker.
To be fair, by the time the case wound it's way into the courts, the trucking company had gone out of business and there was no one to collect from or defend their position. Again, an individual might have a right to refuse to work, but a company does not, once it becomes a public accommodation.
Not really. The trucking company had no legal reason to refuse the beer run, and they signed a contract to do so.
So why doesn't he apply the same standards to divorce or people living together before marriage? Oh, that's right, that would mean he'd never make any money selling wedding cakes.
Because a business doesn't have a religion. They were never suing Philips personally for being a homophobic bigot, they were suing Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. - A legal entity.
Well, no he doesn't, because Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. is a Public Accommodation.
As I've pointed out, there's no religious purpose to a wedding cake. In fact, it is a pagan tradition that passed on to the Christian world. (Except the Romans baked their cakes in the shape of genitals to encourage fertility.)
And Philips doesn't have to be a baker.
Again, an individual might have a right to refuse to work, but a company does not, once it becomes a public accommodation.
Not really. The trucking company had no legal reason to refuse the beer run, and they signed a contract to do so.
So why doesn't he apply the same standards to divorce or people living together before marriage? Oh, that's right, that would mean he'd never make any money selling wedding cakes.
Because a business doesn't have a religion. They were never suing Philips personally for being a homophobic bigot, they were suing Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. - A legal entity.
Uh, he was attacking them.
So if an interracial couple went into his shop and he said, "I don't do mixed marriages", would that be okay? Even if he claimed it was part of his religious belief system?
Here's the problem. You think being gay is a lifestyle, like someone woke up one morning and said, "I'm going to chose to engage in activity that will make me a social pariah, get family members to shun me and experience discrimination".
Nobody does that.
But in your bizarre ass Christian world, kids are suddenly deciding to be gay because a drag queen read them a story once.
In 50 years, most of the Churches will be pretending they had nothing to do with homophobia, just like they all pretend they had nothing to do with slavery and segregation.
(Hey, did you ever wonder why there is a Southern Baptists convention? )
Uh, he was attacking them.
So if an interracial couple went into his shop and he said, "I don't do mixed marriages", would that be okay? Even if he claimed it was part of his religious belief system?
Here's the problem. You think being gay is a lifestyle, like someone woke up one morning and said, "I'm going to chose to engage in activity that will make me a social pariah, get family members to shun me and experience discrimination".
But in your bizarre ass Christian world, kids are suddenly deciding to be gay because a drag queen read them a story once.
In 50 years, most of the Churches will be pretending they had nothing to do with homophobia, just like they all pretend they had nothing to do with slavery and segregation.
(Hey, did you ever wonder why there is a Southern Baptists convention? )
Yeah. Lots of people will do things you won't like. But that's not a reason to make it illegal.They make me sick to my stomach.
That's the chickenshit version of forcing him.But I would totally report his lawbreaking to the appropriate authorities.
That's the chickenshit version of forcing him.
You are right, it doesn't matter. THere's a law on the books and his company was breaking it.The cake isn’t the point, it’s what the cake is for. It doesn’t matter if it was balloons and flowers, it’s the celebration it was for that was the reason he declined to make the cake.
It’s a different scenario. The employee works for someone else, so they have to do what the employer wants, or, the employer has to make reasonable accommodations for the employee. However, wal mart can choose what items they want to sell, or not sell. Phillips, in kind, can choose not to sell things that go against his protected religious freedoms.
I disagree. PA laws cannot force someone to act against their constitutionally protected freedoms.
Correct, the trucking company didn’t have a reason to refuse the run, because they wanted to make the money, but had they raised a religious rejection, they could have just simply not contracted to that particular business that wanted them to haul the alcohol.
Let’s say, for example, that the owners of the trucking company were Muslim, would they be expected to haul loads of alcohol, which would violate their religion? Of course not, nobody would expect them to do that, just like nobody would expect a Muslim or halal butcher to process pork products.
Who says he does? I guess someone would have to go into his bakery, and tell him they wanted to have a cake made specifically for their 5th marriage. If he does it, then you have a case for hypocrisy. It’s not like people go to places and advertise to them that they are on their 5th marriage. More than likely they just go in and say they need a wedding cake.
But the business doesn’t operate without the people, and, a business can decide what rules and principles it operates under. Again, just as other religions have their list of things they won’t do….
It highlights an important principle of libertarianism: you should never ask the government to do something you wouldn't be willing to do yourself. You might not have the capacity, or weaponry, to do actually do it - but you should feel morally justified in using the threat of violence yourself before you delegate such an act to the state.But no doubt Joe would do it.
It’s kinda a Joe thing.
It highlights an important principle of libertarianism: you should never ask the government to do something you wouldn't be willing to do yourself.
You might not have the capacity, or weaponry, to do actually do it - but you should feel morally justified in using the threat of violence yourself before you delegate such an act to the state.
Except there's no need to point a gun at this homophobic twit... Just hit him with fines until he either goes out of business or complies with the law.If Joe wouldn't feel righteous and just in going into the store and forcing the baker, at gunpoint, to bake a cake, he's a chickenshit hypocrite to support laws that do it on his behalf.
That's the chickenshit version of forcing him.
Yeah. Lots of people will do things you won't like. But that's not a reason to make it illegal.
No one should be forced to associate with others against their will.
It highlights an important principle of libertarianism: you should never ask the government to do something you wouldn't be willing to do yourself. You might not have the capacity, or weaponry, to do actually do it - but you should feel morally justified in using the threat of violence yourself before you delegate such an act to the state.
If Joe wouldn't feel righteous and just in going into the store and forcing the baker, at gunpoint, to bake a cake, he's a chickenshit hypocrite to support laws that do it on his behalf.
You are right, it doesn't matter. THere's a law on the books and his company was breaking it.
And if he chose not to sell wedding cakes at all, he wouldn't have an issue here. If he choose not to sell custom decorated cakes, this wouldn't be an issue. instead, he chose to not sell to certain people.
Sure they can. Religious freedom doesn't exempt you from the law.
Just ask the Native Americans who want to smoke Peyote.
Or the Mormon splinter groups who want to practice plural marriage
Or the Branch Davidian who wants to marry his 11 year old daughter to the cult's leader.
Point was, the company took the contract. It's really not comparable at all.
Except that doesn't discriminate because they aren't hauling alcohol or selling pork products to ANYONE.
Why does it have to be a fifth marriage? Why not a second marriage? Or a marriage after living with the partner for years? Either you follow all the bibles rules or you follow none of them. All of which is moot, because this is about his business, not him.
Awesome. They still can't break the law.
THere's a law on the books and his company was breaking it.
If he choose not to sell custom decorated cakes, this wouldn't be an issue, he said he would sell those things, but not to certain people
Sure they can. Religious freedom doesn't exempt you from the law.
Just ask the Native Americans who want to smoke Peyote.
Or the Mormon splinter groups who want to practice plural marriage
Or the Branch Davidian who wants to marry his 11 year old daughter to the cult's leader.
Why does it have to be a fifth marriage? Why not a second marriage? Or a marriage after living with the partner for years? Either you follow all the bibles rules or you follow none of them
Not a constitutional issue. You don't have a right to break the law and use religion as an excuse. Otherwise, I would have the right to cut out my ex-boss's heart with an obsidian knife to please the Aztec Deities I just started worshipping last week.Again, can any legislator make a law that forces you to violate the cotus?
Except he didn’t choose to not sell to certain people, he chose to not to make a cake for certain events.
So, you’re suggesting that lawmakers can make laws the force you to violate your cotus protected freedoms?
Native American can use peyote:
polygamy, for religious purposes shouldn’t be illegal. The government shouldn’t be regulating people’s marriages, and if you want to marry multiple willing partners, that should be your right.
Branch davidians we’re(sic) not a religion, but we’re a cult.
The number of marriages is irrelevant, my point was, has anyone ever tested this fact? Most people, when ordering a service, do bring up the fact that it’s their 2nd, 3rd, 4th..whatever wedding, not do they say they need something for then person they’ve been living with. They, more than likely come in and say “I need a cake for my wedding”. And again, different religions have different views on marriage.
Now, that just shows why libertarians are fucking children. As far as my willingness... 11 years in the Army, ready to do whatever the government asked me to.
again, 11 years in the military... I would have had no problem using violence to achieve ends as directed.
Except there's no need to point a gun at this homophobic twit... Just hit him with fines until he either goes out of business or complies with the law.
Just like we would if he refused to follow sanitation laws or didn't pay his utility bills.
No, that's enforcing the laws we put into place. The Public Accommodation laws didn't magically appear one day. They are on the books because the majority of people in Colorado, through their legislators, said, "Yeah, that sounds reasonable."
Shush, the grownups are talking.Joe keeps accusing the baker of being homophobic because he won’t make a same sex wedding cake.
Shush, the grownups are talking.
If I could actually meet this person, I would bake them a cake, and then invite them to church.
Children who respect the rights of others - something you apparently can't grasp.Now, that just shows why libertarians are fucking children.
Ohhh... well, maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe you're polishing up your jackboots at this moment. Or, maybe you're just hoping the government will force your will on others because you don't have the balls to do it yourself.As far as my willingness... 11 years in the Army, ready to do whatever the government asked me to.
again, 11 years in the military... I would have had no problem using violence to achieve ends as directed.
That's not the point. But I'm sure you know that and are just evading.Except there's no need to point a gun at this homophobic twit...
Yes, and for you, I suppose, the majority should always get its way.No, that's enforcing the laws we put into place. The Public Accommodation laws didn't magically appear one day. They are on the books because the majority of people in Colorado, through their legislators, said, "Yeah, that sounds reasonable."
The gall!! Who does he think he is? The government should keep all businesses on a short leash and supervise all their hiring and customer service decisions. And you nitwits whine when people call you socialists.Then he shouldn't have opened a bakery.
The gall!! Who does he think he is? The government should keep all businesses on a short leash and supervise all their hiring and customer service decisions. And you nitwits whine when people call you socialists.
Bottom line - liberal social engineering has completely jumped the shark. You simply can't control other people the way you'd like, and if you keep trying the whole thing will go down in flames.