Colorado baker told to bake that cake

[Harpy Eagle]

You think chefs don't bake? Let's see,.. starting with #20:

The Bomb Bakers

Get The Bomb Bakers Recipe from Food Network

www.foodnetwork.com

Shall I continue?

Yes, they bake but they are not bakers.

Funny that you give a link to a potato recipe and think that is baking.

 

[HeyNorm]

It is legal. Nobody has said it is not.

This is just one more stupid strawman

Then if the baker won’t bake the cake for the straight same sex heterosexual couple (which, by the way, would not even be a sin to him since, by their very nature, would not involve same sex intercourse) then he is not discriminating, he simply does not carry the desired product.

Once again I am proving to be the most progressive, free thinking, poster on a thread.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Then if the baker won’t bake the cake for the straight same sex heterosexual couple (which, by the way, would not even be a sin to him since, by their very nature, would not involve same sex intercourse) the he is not discriminating, he simply does not carry the desired product.

Once again I am proving to be the most progressive, free thinking, poster on a thread.

He carries cakes with two colors of icing. That is all he was asked for.

Hey look, I fully support his right to say "no" I will not do that. I think PA laws are unconstitutional as well as protected classes.

But that does not remove the fact I think the baker is just an asshole that does not even understand his own religion.

 

[HeyNorm]

He carries cakes with two colors of icing. That is all he was asked for.

Hey look, I fully support his right to say "no" I will not do that. I think PA laws are unconstitutional as well as protected classes.

But that does not remove the fact I think the baker is just an asshole that does not even understand his own religion.

I might agree, but make stupid laws, then deal with the stupid results, right.

No one ever thinks these thing through

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yes, they bake but they are not bakers.

Funny that you give a link to a potato recipe and think that is baking.

Guy Fieri's baked potato recipe..
They bake so are bakers and one can definitely still get rich from baking.. given they market themselves and their products well enough and persist long enough. Best bet? Bagels.
And baking a baked potato is not baking?.. If you say so..

 

[Grumblenuts]

I think PA laws are unconstitutional as well as protected classes.

Absurd. Might as well go ahead and call the 14th Amendment unconstitutional.

 

[JoeB131]

Still circulating the old tired

Shush, the grownups are talking.

 

[HeyNorm]

Shush, the grownups are talking.

So why do you keep butting in?

Now run along and play.

 

[JoeB131]

So why do you keep butting in?

Because you keep waiving your arms like a five year old on a sugar rush when the grownups are talking about the issue.

Now shush, the grownups are talking about a serious issue.

 

[HeyNorm]

Because you keep waiving your arms like a five year old on a sugar rush when the grownups are talking about the issue.

Now shush, the grownups are talking about a serious issue.

Funny, Joe thinks same sex means gay!

So Joe, do you even know what sex is?

Oh, you keep bringing up your Asian girlfriend. Does that mean you’re a lesbian?

 

[Grumblenuts]

^Simply ignorable.

 

[HeyNorm]

He carries cakes with two colors of icing. That is all he was asked for.

Hey look, I fully support his right to say "no" I will not do that. I think PA laws are unconstitutional as well as protected classes.

But that does not remove the fact I think the baker is just an asshole that does not even understand his own religion.

So if any given Baker makes Boob cakes, would that mean he must make male torso cakes ?

 

[mak2]

So if any given Baker makes Boob cakes, would that mean he must make male torso cakes ?

My first red head had incredible boobs, every birthday I got a cake impression of them. She was mean, but I miss her.

 

[pknopp]

Violating / sacrificing your personal (religeous) beliefs, values, etc is 'doing the right thing'?

If there are other bakeries willing to do the job they should just go there.

This is what Christianity has taught me.

Customer: I would like a pink cake with blue frosting to celebrate my transistion.

Baker: I can have that ready Thursday.

Customer: I'm here to pick up my oder.

Baker: Here you go. By they way, I see you live local. Do you happen to have a home church? If not, I would like to perhaps invite you to ours.

 

[ThisIsMe]

But no baker, Catholic or Protestant, would ever say that, that's the thing. And they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they did, because that would be discriminating on the basis of religion.



Or they can put them in the unemployment line, which they absolutely will if they are more trouble than they are worth. I mean, do you know how easy it is to fire someone?



Well, nowhere near the same. First, the company had other options, such as assigning another driver. If the two truck drivers were the only employees AND delivering beer was this company's only business AND they had been told this up front when they were hired, they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

Philips problem is that he already provides wedding cakes or specialty cakes. In the latter case, he was perfectly willing to sell the cake with blue frosting and pink dough, until he was told what it was going to be used for.



He has religious liberty. His business does not. His business is a public accommodation.

Going back to the Muslim Truckers, the point is, the company STILL had a contract to deliver beer to that customer. They would have been in breech of contract if the beer hadn't been delivered.

Similarly, he had an obligation as a public accommodation to provide the services he promised. Particularly in the latter case where he already agreed to bake the blue/pink cake.

But no baker, Catholic or Protestant, would ever say that, that's the thing. And they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they did, because that would be discriminating on the basis of religion.

We’ll, the point is, you want to cal out the baker for hate because he wouldn’t bake a cake for a gay wedding, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you might be able to show hypocrisy if they violated their religious beliefs for one situation and not another. But again, different religions view marriage and remarriage differently.

Or they can put them in the unemployment line, which they absolutely will if they are more trouble than they are worth. I mean, do you know how easy it is to fire someone?

The meme was meant to point out hypocrisy, or at least the absurdity of having different religions at different checkout stands. I was just saying they don’t have to work in a checkout stand, if doing so might violate their religious beliefs, but, at the end of the day, they work FOR a business that does sell hams and condoms, so, if they have an objection to either, they need to let the store know so they can be put somewhere where they won’t have to deal with either.

In regards to then truckers, you’re right, if the trucking company was contracted to haul the alcohol and the drivers were the only ones available, they would have to do it, but the company, if it has other means available, has to make a religious accommodation for the drivers. The fact that the trucking company didn’t make accommodation for their religious beliefs is why the court awarded the drivers the settlement.

However, the company, being a transporter of goods and services, including alcohol, is not obligated to accept contracts from everyone that asks them. If a supplier wants them to haul something that goes against their sincerely held religious beliefs, they can say no, and the supplier will have to find another carrier.

So, if someone says “we want you to haul 38,000 pounds of products to a gay pride festival” the transporter could say that then hauling to that event would be like them being in support of that event and could refuse. Kind of like the Muslim truckers raising a religious objection to hauling alcohol, the trucking company could raise a religious objection to hauling items to a gay pride event.

However, it’s even more relevant for Phillips because he would be asked to be using his own personal talents to create something for the event, and he feels that puts him closer to the event than he feels his religion allows him to be.

Again, the courts saw fit to side with the truckers when they claimed religious objection, why would it be any different for Phillips, especially since he’s not refusing business to gay people, just for a gay wedding.

 

[ThisIsMe]

And if you said so up front, you wouldn't have a problem.

The problem here is that Philips said, "Pink Cake with Blue Frosting, no problem". Until he found out that the customer was a transperson celebrating her transition. Whoops.




So, wouldn't opening as a Muslim bakery be equally or more offensive to Jesus?
Also wouldn't give him much defense, his previous business could still be sued.

The problem here is that Philips said, "Pink Cake with Blue Frosting, no problem". Until he found out that the customer was a transperson celebrating her transition. Whoops.

Yeah, and I don’t see the problem with that. He was willing to make them a cake, until they said it was for a transition ceremony.

As I’ve always stated, if a gay person walked into his shop and asked him to bake a cake for their birthday, and he said no, because he doesn’t serve gay people, then I’d agree with you, but if someone says they want him to bake a cake for a transition party, then Phillips has religious grounds to say that he cannot work in support of such a ceremony.

 

[ThisIsMe]

You really do have a point here. I don't give a flying fuck about your bronze age superstitions that you only selectively follow. Most of you would get stoned in a week if you had to live under actual bible law, and you know it.

Point is, if I go into a place of business that is being subsidized by my tax dollars, I should be able to get the services promised, period, end of sentence. I can't refuse to serve Mormons (as much as I despise them) because that would be a violation of THEIR rights to public accommodation. Gays deserve the same consideration. If your line of work brings you into contact with people you find morally objectionable, then find something else to do for a living.



Except that sort of thing would be taken down by Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Point was he discriminated, it doesn't matter if he did so because he had religious objections or he just thinks the butt sex is icky.



Not in the eyes of the law.

You really do have a point here. I don't give a flying fuck about your bronze age superstitions that you only selectively follow

And you don’t have to, that’s your right, but the cotus says we all have the right to freedom of religion and to practice that freedom of religion.

Point is, if I go into a place of business that is being subsidized by my tax dollars

Masterpiece cake shop is being subsidized by the government?

I can't refuse to serve Mormons (as much as I despise them) because that would be a violation of THEIR rights to public accommodation.

You absolutely could refuse them if they asked you to do something that went against your sincerely held religious beliefs, and violated your constitutionally protected ability to exercise your freedom of religion. Now, if you refused them simply because they are Mormon,then I could see it, but if they asked you to use your skills and talents for a religious festival, and that festival was against your religion, then you could tell them that your service to that festival is not something your religion allows.

Except that sort of thing would be taken down by Facebook, Twitter, etc.

I can’t help it if those platforms remove his content, but the internet is forever, if he made such anti gay statements, they are out there. Someone, somewhere would have screen captured it for reposting later had he said something.

Point was he discriminated, it doesn't matter if he did so because he had religious objections or he just thinks the butt sex is icky.

No, he didn’t. He never refused then because they are gay, he refused them because they wanted him to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Also, I understand why you don’t understand this, it’s because you don’t want to understand. You just said so in your first response to my post. You don’t “give a flying fuck about your Bronze Age superstition”, which means that you, as I said, are not considerate of anyone else’s beliefs, you simply want everyone to do as you want them to do, regardless of their beliefs.

Our cotus doesn’t see it that way.

 

[ThisIsMe]

This is what Christianity has taught me.

Customer: I would like a pink cake with blue frosting to celebrate my transistion.

Baker: I can have that ready Thursday.

Customer: I'm here to pick up my oder.

Baker: Here you go. By they way, I see you live local. Do you happen to have a home church? If not, I would like to perhaps invite you to ours.

And that’s perfectly fine. Some people have differing views and tolerances on religious practices, just as I’ve heard that some Muslims drink alcohol…. The point is, if someone chooses to observe a religious belief or chooses not to doesn’t mean that religious belief is not there.

 

[pknopp]

And that’s perfectly fine. Some people have differing views and tolerances on religious practices, just as I’ve heard that some Muslims drink alcohol…. The point is, if someone chooses to observe a religious belief or chooses not to doesn’t mean that religious belief is not there.

I'm trying to understand a religious belief that believes in running people off. Is that really a Christian precept?

 

[HeyNorm]

I'm trying to understand a religious belief that believes in running people off. Is that really a Christian precept?

Who ran them off?