Colorado baker told to bake that cake

[JohnDB]

You sell to whoever, you don’t pick and choose. The only person I would remotely question not selling to is a white liberal since I feel they are to dumb to make educated choices, but a fool and their money are soon parted.

But you are not a baker or a bakery owner.

There is no getting rich by being a baker....

 

[HeyNorm]

Here's why I think it is a big deal to provide your services to all who want to spend money in your establishment, if you are open to the public. I live in a small Midwestern town that was/is very racist. To this day this town is far less diverse than one would expect. But back in the day (early to mid 60's) there were two gas stations close or in town, and on the main road to a larger city. Back then an attendant would pump you gas. When I was a kid as a rule the gas stations would not pump gas for black people. Period. They were also refused service in the restaurant etc. The effect of this is black people avoided my little town and effectively segregated it from all minorities for decades. If the conservatives can make it so bakeries don't have to bake cakes for selected people they don't like, others can refuse to provide services to minorities and I have seen the effects of this in my lifetime. My little town had a public swimming pool I guess it was in the late 60's, one day a black family showed up. They got everyone out of the pool and closed it for some length of time, I don't remember how long. For the last several years I had thought this might not be that big of deal anymore, but since I have been on this forum and witnessed the overt racism on this forum I am afraid the racism is just a bit more covert now.

The baker did serve gays (how you can tell a gay from a straight is still a mystery).

Not seeing the point.

 

[HeyNorm]

I think the next group the bakery Taliban should go after is obese people. Now there is a sin. When people come in to order a cake they have to weigh in. If they are fat they get a low fat small cake. The sin of gluttony really bothers me.

This Baker would not provide a wedding cake for two straights that we’re getting married to members of their own sex either. And yes, marriage is legal for two heterosexuals individuals of the same sex.

So he is not discriminating, and it’s not even based on religion because the two same sex heterosexuals would not, by their very nature, have sex with each other. In fact, they would likely keep dating, outside the marriage as this would be a financially based arrangement.

Now this actually should make you feel better about this, but it won’t because you are looking for ways to be a victim.

 

[g5000]

You know, you make a good point. Just as homosexuality is addressed in the Old Testament, adultery is as well. Now, certain religions have different views on marriage, remarriage, there are some laws that are just not done anymore (like plucking your eye out if it offends you etc…), however, your argument here does put the baker in a bit of a predicament, as it could be seen as certainly a hypocrisy. I still wouldn’t call it discriminatory, because again, different religions have adapted different views on marriage. However, going by a strict reading of the scripture, adultery is also considered wrong.

So, one would need to find out if a person has ever come into his shop and told Phillips he wanted to have a cake made for his 5th wedding (or whatever number), if Phillips has, then one would have a case that he is certainly hypocritical, and maybe even that he was not holding to his religious values.

Baker who refused to make cake for gay wedding: 'I don't discriminate'

Jack Phillips maintained he would 'serve everybody that comes in my shop,' but that he wouldn't 'create cakes for every message.'

www.nbcnews.com

He even says he wouldn’t make a cake for someone wanting a negative stance on lgbtq, he just doesn’t want to make a cake for every message that comes through the door, and a wedding is an inherent religious event and so he wouldn’t make one for a same sex wedding, which his religion opposes

The bigoted bakers are hypocrites. Just like those bigots who opposed interracial marriages, they are using the Bible as a shield for their hatred.

This has nothing to do with religion. It's all about hate.

 

[mak2]

The bigoted bakers are hypocrites. Just like those bigots who opposed interracial marriages, they are using the Bible as a shield for their hatred.

This has nothing to do with religion. It's all about hate.

That is how I see it.

 

[Papageorgio]

But you are not a baker or a bakery owner.

There is no getting rich by being a baker....

That's any business, if you sell to one, you sell to all.

 

[HeyNorm]

The bigoted bakers are hypocrites. Just like those bigots who opposed interracial marriages, they are using the Bible as a shield for their hatred.

This has nothing to do with religion. It's all about hate.

True, it has nothing to do with religion since he wouldn’t bake a same sex wedding cake for a same sex heterosexual wedding either even though the two involved would no, by their very nature, sin.

Hope this makes you feel better.

 

[HeyNorm]

That's any business, if you sell to one, you sell to all.

As he has.

 

[Chillicothe]

If someone told me to make a penis cake, for example, I would say go somewhere else.

Non sequitur much?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

After all this time, why haven't the two queers found another cake and went ahead with the "wedding"?

An agenda

 

[JoeB131]

Ok Kid. Tired

Shush, the grownups are talking.

Oh I get what the transgender people want their status to be....but from the many statistics I've seen, Transgenders are mentally ill....they need help and not the legitimizing of their dysphoria.

50 years ago, homosexuality was considered a mental illness... until they realized that it was more about society's bigotry than any mental illness.

150 years ago, Women were frequently diagnosed with "hysteria" (from the Greek word for Uterus) if they responded to stress differently than how a man responded to it.

The same will be said of Gender Dysphoria. It's just a different form of sexuality.

So the bakery has to close....it's not really that big of a deal. Especially if he is a true professional. He'll break down the equipment and move it to another location and set up again or sell it for what he has in it....maybe more. Either way he loses maybe $20K in the worst case scenario but likely makes some money due to supply chain issues for the equipment.

Or he can sell to someone who isn't a bigot, and find something else to do while he mutters that the world doesn't work the way the voices in his head tell him it should.

The ultimate mental illness - Religion!

Bakeries are more of a service business to the community than a profitable enterprise.

And us Bigoted Bakers don't have to do them. We are just fine without creating a shop and jobs.

What an inflated view you have of yourself. Did you threaten to take your ball and go home as a child?

 

[miketx]

50 years ago, homosexuality was considered a mental illness... until they realized that it was more about society's bigotry than any mental illness

Proving that society is getting more stupid daily.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm a baker that's more than willing to sit in jail than to become a conscript of the state.
I bake cakes because I want to....not for an illusion of becoming wealthy....I just want my business to be mine. I bake because I want to....not for some sort of political social agenda....and I refuse to be made a conscript in one....especially one I disagree with.

Um, yeah, funny that. It is your business.

You still have to follow all the laws governing the regulation of bakeries.

You have to get licenses and permits.
You have to get a TAX Id number separate from your social security number.
You have to conform to sanitation and safety laws for your workplace.

And you have to follow the public accommodation laws.

This really isn't complicated.

 

[JoeB131]

After all this time, why haven't the two queers found another cake and went ahead with the "wedding"?

They did.
Right after they filed a complaint for violation of Colorado's equal protection laws.

 

[miketx]

They did.
Right after they filed a complaint for violation of Colorado's equal protection laws.

Well, I hope you and your "husband" are happy.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, I hope you and your "husband" are happy.

My girlfriend and I will be.
But you know what, 50 years ago, our relationship would have been illegal because I'm white and she's Asian.
And I'm sure they would have never found a baker willing to bake a cake because racism.

Thank goodness we live in more civilized times.

 

[HeyNorm]

Shush, the grownups are talking.


50 years ago, homosexuality was considered a mental illness... until they realized that it was more about society's bigotry than any mental illness.

150 years ago, Women were frequently diagnosed with "hysteria" (from the Greek word for Uterus) if they responded to stress differently than how a man responded to it.

The same will be said of Gender Dysphoria. It's just a different form of sexuality.



Or he can sell to someone who isn't a bigot, and find something else to do while he mutters that the world doesn't work the way the voices in his head tell him it should.

The ultimate mental illness - Religion!


What an inflated view you have of yourself. Did you threaten to take your ball and go home as a child?

Joe don’t like knowing that the baker is not a bigot. But then again, Joe just likes acting the victim.

Oh well, miserable people like acting all put out over the smallest lil things.

 

[HeyNorm]

Um, yeah, funny that. It is your business.

You still have to follow all the laws governing the regulation of bakeries.

You have to get licenses and permits.
You have to get a TAX Id number separate from your social security number.
You have to conform to sanitation and safety laws for your workplace.

And you have to follow the public accommodation laws.

This really isn't complicated.

And the Baker did follow all applicable laws, regardless where his girlfriend is from.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Actually, all those things are considered sins under the bible. True, most people don't make a big deal about them. When I grew up in the 1970's, it was considered a bit of a scandal when my cousin moved in with her boyfriend without marriage. Today, it's kind of the norm. And no baker would scream, "I'm not serving you because you are living in sin."

God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.



Here's the thing, the store can make reasonable accommodations for that employee. (Although, more than likely, they would just find another excuse to fire that employee, welcome to the world of at-will employment.)


Not really. In the case of the two drivers, they ruled the company could have assigned someone else to the beer run.

they did not deny the customer their beer based on a religious objection.

In the case of the baker, he has the right to not be a baker. Once he decided to be a baker, he has to take care of all customers who ask for his product. In short, HE has religious liberty, his business does not.

Actually, all those things are considered sins under the bible. True, most people don't make a big deal about them. When I grew up in the 1970's, it was considered a bit of a scandal when my cousin moved in with her boyfriend without marriage. Today, it's kind of the norm. And no baker would scream, "I'm not serving you because you are living in sin."

We’ll, there are different interpretations between the catholic and Protestant religions, but as I’ve said, if someone walks in and says they want a cake baked for their 5th wedding, you might have a case for hypocrisy, based on the laws of the Bible

Here's the thing, the store can make reasonable accommodations for that employee. (Although, more than likely, they would just find another excuse to fire that employee, welcome to the world of at-will employment.)

Absolutely….reasonable. If a catholic has an objection to cashing out condoms, they can just put them somewhere else in the store, and not in the checkout line.

they did not deny the customer their beer based on a religious objection.

They don’t need to Denny the customer their beer, they just need to have other drivers deliver it. In the end, the court awarded them something like $240,000 because the company violated their religious objections. The point here is, the court sided with their religious freedoms…just like they sided with Phillips.

In the case of the baker, he has the right to not be a baker. Once he decided to be a baker, he has to take care of all customers who ask for his product. In short, HE has religious liberty, his business does not.

You’re right, HE has religious liberty, and asking him to use his hands and skills to assist in a ceremony that goes against his religion is something he can refuse. His business cannot refuse to sell them a cake, and he never did refuse, but he just refused to use his craft, his expression, in service to a gay wedding. It’s almost like those two Muslim truckers, who were awarded Al the case because the transport of alcohol goes against their religion. The court seemed to be ok with that, then why have a different standard when it comes to Phillips?

 

[ThisIsMe]

In the 60's. I get the second half of your question, but it won't work. I am not an ignorant redneck racist jerk.

ignorant redneck racist jerk.

Actually, this statement might suggest you are….