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People say this is a Christian nation. How many Americans are real Christians? ...
No one is praying to others. They are asking others to pray. Why do you keep lying about this?No need to pray to others, no matter the reasonI can't answer that question. Just pointing out that Bonzi is either deluded or a liar.No one is praying to others. They are simply asking others to pray for them. Even fundies do that.Bottom line: When you can pray to God directly, makes no sense to pray to others.
It is not done in the Bible and it is not mentioned in the Bible. End of debate.
Why can't they pray themselves? Why do they need any intermediary?
They want to speak to god, speak to god. Don't ask someone else to speak for you
why pray at all, god can know your thoughts already
People say this is a Christian nation. How many Americans are real Christians? ...
Let me say it this way: After a Catholic was president of the USA the USA landed on the moon. Per aspera ad astra. The moon is a little more direction heaven than to duck and cover.
Same reason a fundie would.No one is praying to others. They are asking others to pray. Why do you keep lying about this?No need to pray to others, no matter the reasonI can't answer that question. Just pointing out that Bonzi is either deluded or a liar.No one is praying to others. They are simply asking others to pray for them. Even fundies do that.
Why can't they pray themselves? Why do they need any intermediary?
They want to speak to god, speak to god. Don't ask someone else to speak for you
why pray at all, god can know your thoughts already
Please explain why you would ask someone else to pray when you can pray yourself directly to God.
Same reason a fundie would.No one is praying to others. They are asking others to pray. Why do you keep lying about this?No need to pray to others, no matter the reasonI can't answer that question. Just pointing out that Bonzi is either deluded or a liar.Why can't they pray themselves? Why do they need any intermediary?
They want to speak to god, speak to god. Don't ask someone else to speak for you
why pray at all, god can know your thoughts already
Please explain why you would ask someone else to pray when you can pray yourself directly to God.
I see lies pour right out of your mouth.Same reason a fundie would.No one is praying to others. They are asking others to pray. Why do you keep lying about this?No need to pray to others, no matter the reasonI can't answer that question. Just pointing out that Bonzi is either deluded or a liar.
Please explain why you would ask someone else to pray when you can pray yourself directly to God.
I guess I should have clarified... The Bible says nothing about asking the dead to pray for you.
You can twist it all you want, but I know Catholics that DO pray to Mary. Ask for her protection.
I see lies pour right out of your mouth.Same reason a fundie would.No one is praying to others. They are asking others to pray. Why do you keep lying about this?No need to pray to others, no matter the reason
Please explain why you would ask someone else to pray when you can pray yourself directly to God.
I guess I should have clarified... The Bible says nothing about asking the dead to pray for you.
You can twist it all you want, but I know Catholics that DO pray to Mary. Ask for her protection.
said that the Romans didn't invest in Hebrew culture....as in their social culture. I never said they didn't build shit. I should have been more clear. What I meant was that they didn't go out of their way to bring Judeo-Roman beliefs, education, etc to Palestine. Did they build what was necessary to support trade, to support the movements of armies, to support health and welfare? Well absolutely. That would have been one of the governors primary jobs. But they did not go in there and start trying to tell the Jews what to believe, what gods to pray to, and how to live their lives in general. They didn't care. (see how easy that was?)
Herod's Temple wasn't destroyed in 70 CE. Got it.
Ok hold on...I haven't even read the rest of your post yet, although I am looking forward to the entertainment value. The Temple was not destroyed in an effort to eradicate Judaism and establish paganism among the Jews. It was destroyed as a "fuck you" to the Jews for rebelling. As I said...the Roman's didn't give a fuck so long as the Jews paid their taxes and didn't start shit. Well guess what....they started shit, didn't they? And the Romans did what the Romans did best. They said "oh...you are going to get bitchy, well how do like THAT mother fucker?"
Regardless that has nothing to do with your statement that Catholicism was the early form of Christianity.
How many times are you going to try and throw out distractions from your ridiculous statement?
People say this is a Christian nation. How many Americans are real Christians? ...
Let me say it this way: After a Catholic was president of the USA the USA landed on the moon. Per aspera ad astra. The moon is a little more direction heaven than to duck and cover.
I didn't say Catholic's were useless. I said some of their doctrine is not Biblical and is does not exemplify Christianity.
Calling Priests "Father" is unbiblical.
Catholics are taught to call their priest, "Father", as a religious title of respect. Christians in the first century never called their leaders, "father". This first happened hundreds of years later.
Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!
(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
Calling Priests "Father" is unbiblical.
Catholics are taught to call their priest, "Father", as a religious title of respect. Christians in the first century never called their leaders, "father". This first happened hundreds of years later.
Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!
(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
Looks like when we wrote our part of the bible we forgot to read it. But on the other side: Do you like to say mother Mary is also not my mother? And what do you say to your father? Daddy? Biblically literally correct. You have my allowness to call your father "Daddy".
Calling Priests "Father" is unbiblical.
Catholics are taught to call their priest, "Father", as a religious title of respect. Christians in the first century never called their leaders, "father". This first happened hundreds of years later.
Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!
(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
Looks like when we wrote our part of the bible we forgot to read it. But on the other side: Do you like to say mother Mary is also not my mother? And what do you say to your father? Daddy? Biblically literally correct. You have my allowness to call your father "Daddy".
If you bother to read all of Matthew 23, taken in context, they are talking about Religious Leaders.
Also, turning arguments around (or twisting them) still doesn't defend the wrongness of your doctrine.
Defend your doctrine - if you have no defense, say nothing.
That's not quite right, there is no guarantee that the prayer is more effective.I see lies pour right out of your mouth.Same reason a fundie would.No one is praying to others. They are asking others to pray. Why do you keep lying about this?
Please explain why you would ask someone else to pray when you can pray yourself directly to God.
I guess I should have clarified... The Bible says nothing about asking the dead to pray for you.
You can twist it all you want, but I know Catholics that DO pray to Mary. Ask for her protection.
Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe (wrongly) that a saint, who in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do (again, wrong). Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly (totally wrong!)
Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!
(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
Ok hold on...I haven't even read the rest of your post yet, although I am looking forward to the entertainment value. The Temple was not destroyed in an effort to eradicate Judaism and establish paganism among the Jews. It was destroyed as a "fuck you" to the Jews for rebelling. As I said...the Roman's didn't give a fuck so long as the Jews paid their taxes and didn't start shit. Well guess what....they started shit, didn't they? And the Romans did what the Romans did best. They said "oh...you are going to get bitchy, well how do like THAT mother fucker?"
It's total revisionism and you are the one wearing rose (Catholic) colored glasses, not me. Constantine stripped some power from the pagans, but not all of it. He couldn't have. The western empire was still highly pagan. The empire was unstable. He had just gone through years of civil war and the years preceding that were also filled with civil war. There was a time shortly before that where there were like five civil wars in four years. The empire was on a tipping point. The western army was HIGHLY pagan. It was made up of pagan mercenaries from Gaul, Germiania, Britannica....you think Constantine could strip very much pagan power without inciting yet another civil war? You think he is going to be able to fill the west with Christian officials when it's under a pagan army? Hell, man read your history. When later emperors such as Theodosius tried that what happened? The pagan army killed them and revolted. You think Constantine could pull it off when the empire was even more unstable?
Constantine issued coinage with pagan symbols (some Christian as well), he continued to worship Sol Invictus and Mars. He claimed to have had a vision of Apollo...all after legitimizing Christianity. (Harl, Kenneth [2011] The Fall of the Pagans: The Origins of Medieval Christianity, pg. 130-132). "A rampage" my ass. He played it cool and careful. He could not afford to piss off the pagans too much or he would be facing a nightmare of a war. Now if you want to talk about a guy who went on a rampage...talk about Justinian, not Constantine.
Most scholars don't believe John wrote anything in the New Testament. Read up on what is known as "pseudepigraphy" and learn about how the later Church decided on what books were considered authoritative. One was that it had to be apostolic. The Gospel of John and Revelation were almost certainly not written by John, son of Zebedee and the epistles of John almost certainly were not either. But to get them accepted as scripture, the Church decided they were anyhow even though some of them don't even claim to be.
You know you tell people to read history books and not the Bible and once again you don't even know that? Jesus H. Christ!
Well again, if we define the "earliest form of Christianity" as that which was taught by the first Christians (which seems reasonable) and we define a "Christian" as someone who believes that Jesus was the Messiah and believes in the physical resurrection of Jesus, then the first Christians were Mary Magdalene (in fact according to certain gospels she may have been the very first Christian), the disciples and their group of followers. Thus, what they taught would by definition be the earliest form of Christianity.
Who practices that today? Pfft...no one in its entirety. The Evangelicals certainly maintain the apocalyptic elements as do Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, etc. But what the disciples taught would have been really Jewish not the ultra-conservative Christian viewpoints of the Evangelicals. I don't think any religion today practices the earliest form of Christianity.
, but some (certainly not all) non-Catholic denominations came up with some very odd interpretations of scripture. I do understand and respect those who sincerely believe they were returning to and are closer to Christian roots.
Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment.
- Catholics regularly bow down to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kissing the feet of the statues and praying to them. The Bible teaches that WE ONLY PRAY TO DEITY and Christians considers it paganism and polytheism to pray to anyone EXCEPT the Father, Son or Holy Spirit. So while Catholics pray to Mary, they fail to comprehend that only deity is to be prayed to. The Bible clearly teaches that all dead humans, though conscious in the spirit world, are unable to know anything, much less hear prayers addressed to them. Bowing down to icons and kissing them etc. so closely resembles idol worship it is actually shocking that any Roman Catholic would attempt to defend the practice.
Bonzi? Technically all Christians break the second commandment which is: You shall have no other gods before Me.
The triune god is one god - like three directions are one space. And mother Mary is mother Mary. We love Mother Mary - everyone loves mother Mary. Neverthelels Mohammed - who was himselve one of the greatest admirer of mother Mary - was right when he said something like "Who believes in the triune god - God father, Jesus Christ and mother Mary - is not a Christian", because indeed the holy family is Joseph, Mary and Jesus and the triune god is god father, god son and the holy spirit.
I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.
