Catholics Don't Exemplify Christianity...

[zaangalewa]

Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment.
- Catholics regularly bow down to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kissing the feet of the statues and praying to them. The Bible teaches that WE ONLY PRAY TO DEITY and Christians considers it paganism and polytheism to pray to anyone EXCEPT the Father, Son or Holy Spirit. So while Catholics pray to Mary, they fail to comprehend that only deity is to be prayed to. The Bible clearly teaches that all dead humans, though conscious in the spirit world, are unable to know anything, much less hear prayers addressed to them. Bowing down to icons and kissing them etc. so closely resembles idol worship it is actually shocking that any Roman Catholic would attempt to defend the practice.

Bonzi? Technically all Christians break the second commandment which is: You shall have no other gods before Me.

The triune god is one god - like three directions are one space. And mother Mary is mother Mary. We love Mother Mary - everyone loves mother Mary. Neverthelels Mohammed - who was himselve one of the greatest admirer of mother Mary - was right when he said something like "Who believes in the triune god - God father, Jesus Christ and mother Mary - is not a Christian", because indeed the holy family is Joseph, Mary and Jesus and the triune god is god father, god son and the holy spirit.

I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

 

[Disir]

Bonzi? Technically all Christians break the second commandment which is: You shall have no other gods before Me.

The triune god is one god - like three directions are one space. And mother Mary is mother Mary. We love Mother Mary - everyone loves mother Mary. Neverthelels Mohammed - who was himselve one of the greatest admirer of mother Mary - was right when he said something like "Who believes in the triune god - God father, Jesus Christ and mother Mary - is not a Christian", because indeed the holy family is Joseph, Mary and Jesus and the triune god is god father, god son and the holy spirit.

I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

 

[zaangalewa]

The triune god is one god - like three directions are one space. And mother Mary is mother Mary. We love Mother Mary - everyone loves mother Mary. Neverthelels Mohammed - who was himselve one of the greatest admirer of mother Mary - was right when he said something like "Who believes in the triune god - God father, Jesus Christ and mother Mary - is not a Christian", because indeed the holy family is Joseph, Mary and Jesus and the triune god is god father, god son and the holy spirit.

I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

That's the first commandement, not the second. I answered yet. To say "the big JC" is for example a break of the second commandement if your intention was to hurt with this expression. I could say more about the human dimension of god, but if you are a Jew - what I doubt about, I guess you are an Atheist or Muslim - then it's not necessarry to do so, because Christians are not Jews and Jews are not Christians, what makes it not impossible to be sisters and brothers in god.

 

[Bonzi]

The triune god is one god - like three directions are one space. And mother Mary is mother Mary. We love Mother Mary - everyone loves mother Mary. Neverthelels Mohammed - who was himselve one of the greatest admirer of mother Mary - was right when he said something like "Who believes in the triune god - God father, Jesus Christ and mother Mary - is not a Christian", because indeed the holy family is Joseph, Mary and Jesus and the triune god is god father, god son and the holy spirit.

I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

Unless you believe Jesus IS God.

John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

 

[Bonzi]

Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!

(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

Read the entire passage. Jesus was pointing to some Scribes and Pharisees who were not looking to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood, but some were looking for followers of their own opinions (not God's teachings) and wished to be to be highly exalted by the people. Note that earlier in the passage Jesus is addressing those who sit in the Seat of Moses. Moses taught directly from God, as did Abraham, as did Jesus. Instead of doing this, these Pharisees, with their higher community status, and were making up their own interpretations/additions to the Law given to Moses, setting themselves (not God) as sole arbiters of the Law and calling themselves "Father" even when their teachings and commands were not God's.

Jesus, Peter, John, and Paul all referenced their followers as little children or sons. "Father" is a term of affection--but first it is the acknowledgement that this priest's teachings are not from himself, but from Christ. In 1 Corinthians 4:14-15 Paul defines that same, proper position: For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel.

Compare this to followers of Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and others who gathered followers based on their own opinions instead of what Christ specifically taught. Quite rightfully so, they are not known as "father". You have been unsuccessful in arguing that Catholics should not call their clergy Father--but quite successful in your argument that non-Catholic Christian denominations should not be calling their own clergy "Father."

My case it to the point and self evident.
I don't need to restate it and to people with any cognition and reasoning the see it to be truth as well.

 

[Disir]

I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

That's the first commandement, not the second. I answered yet. To say "the big JC" is for example a break of the second commandement if your intention was to hurt with this expression. I could say more about the human dimension of god, but if you are a Jew - what I doubt about I guess you are an atheists or Muslim - then it's not necessarry to do so, because Christians are not Jews and Jews are not Christians, what makes it not impossible to be sisters and brothers in god.

Second if you're Jewish which is where all of this allegedly stems from. Save it. I've already dealt with the justification several pages back. Although, I would be more than happy to indulge in the many dimensions of God on another thread as long as it isn't initiated as an attack. You set it up and I'll be there.

 

[Disir]

I understand the justification. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

Unless you believe Jesus IS God.

John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

It's justification.

 

[Bonzi]

You understood my explanation - maybe. And what you justify or not is for me personally completly unimportant.

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

Unless you believe Jesus IS God.

John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

It's justification.

It's truth - but some just refuse to believe and are blinded by Satan.
I'm just here to speak truth. It is up to the Holy Spirit to convict you.
You reject Christ, not me or anyone else that tries to speak truth to you.

 

[Disir]

I understood your explanation. Your response was entirely unimportant. It is fantastic that one person from one sect castigates another as breaking a commandment when in reality...........it's all breaking the second commandment.

The second? And where exactly broke I the second commandement?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

That's why the big JC is unacceptable to Jewish people. Hence, the justification.

Unless you believe Jesus IS God.

John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

It's justification.

It's truth - but some just refuse to believe and are blinded by Satan.
I'm just here to speak truth. It is up to the Holy Spirit to convict you.
You reject Christ, not me or anyone else that tries to speak truth to you.

Yawn.

 

[Meriweather]

My case it to the point and self evident.
I don't need to restate it and to people with any cognition and reasoning the see it to be truth as well.

Your case is a prime example of proof-texting--i.e., pulling a single verse from a passage without regard to the entire passage, let alone context of scripture as a whole. Jesus taught an entire lesson, and, seriously, what you got out of it would cause him to slap his forehead and roll his eyes. The lesson as a whole (teach what Christ taught, which comes straight from the Father) is the backbone of the Catholic Church. Not all churches can say this.

 

[Bonzi]

My case it to the point and self evident.
I don't need to restate it and to people with any cognition and reasoning the see it to be truth as well.

Your case is a prime example of proof-texting--i.e., pulling a single verse from a passage without regard to the entire passage, let alone context of scripture as a whole. Jesus taught an entire lesson, and, seriously, what you got out of it would cause him to slap his forehead and roll his eyes. The lesson as a whole (teach what Christ taught, which comes straight from the Father) is the backbone of the Catholic Church. Not all churches can say this.

No POPE in the Bible.
No mention of "talking" to dead Mary to pray on your behalf in the Bible
No mention of rosary beads in the Bible
All Christians are saints, none are set above any others in the Bible.

I really don't need to go on. Unless you have been brainwashed by the Catholic church, people that can think on their own know the facts are self evident.

 

[Meriweather]

No POPE in the Bible.
No mention of "talking" to dead Mary to pray on your behalf in the Bible
No mention of rosary beads in the Bible
All Christians are saints, none are set above any others in the Bible.

I really don't need to go on. Unless you have been brainwashed by the Catholic church, people that can think on their own know the facts are self evident.

You really should not go on. Many Protestants have been brainwashed into believing things about the Catholic Church which simply are not facts. Many Protestants also close their eyes and ears to Catholic practices which indeed are scriptural. After five hundred years of this, it is simply time to let go of the Protestant straw men and ignorance of yesteryear.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with proclaiming your own beliefs. But people need to stop of making up false beliefs and then claiming another Christian follows these false, made-up beliefs. Let's get it right or leave it alone.

 

[TrinityPower]

Calling Priests "Father" is unbiblical.

Catholics are taught to call their priest, "Father", as a religious title of respect. Christians in the first century never called their leaders, "father". This first happened hundreds of years later.

Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!

(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

Thank you. When I ran across that I highlighted it in my bible some time ago.

Let me share an experience I had with a priest... I addressed the priest as title of Rev on the wedding invitations. We had a weird deal where he and the pastor of the church I married in co officiated. It became a big problem right up to a day or two before. We had to go through all this counseling and retreat etc then the priest tried to pull a fast one on me saying that my ex was required to sign some paper promising to bring any children to the Catholic church to be baptised after being told this was not required since we were not marrying in the Catholic church. Said I didn't have to sign it but my ex did. He didn't like my answer. Sat there with his jaw dropped open for a long while. I didn't tell him where he could stick it. I wasn't disrespectful. I said "You know, when God created man He endowed in each one of us a free will. Even Jesus. It says in the Gospel you so revere that when Jesus was on the cross he could have called a legion of angels. That means he sacrificed himself of his free will and you have quite the nerve to sit there and demand that your rule be followed and a document signed when our Father in Heaven didn't even demand Jesus die on the cross? we are not marrying in your church and we have a pastor so you do not even have to be there. " I do not think that guy had ever encountered someone like me before or since. He insisted he had to be there in respect for my ex's mother. I said do what you want but you can sit in the pew like everyone else. My ex wanted to sign it just to not make waves even though he didn't agree with it and said we can just do what we wish. I said oh no no, this is exactly why I would not marry there because there were documents to sign beyond a promise to teach children about Jesus. That man got a little taste of the fire of Jesus in the temple over turning tables was like that day.

For a gift(from his mother of all people) my ex was given this book which was really meant for me (given he was a Catholic since birth and apparently knew all this but when I asked her about such she couldn't give me an answer and neither could my ex) so I read it. The more I read the more angry I became. There is so much stuff that is taken out of context and practiced and set as doctrine that no matter what someone who is a true practicing Catholic tries to tell me otherwise all I see them as is deceived and that's their choice and not mine to bother to dissuade them. I am not like some who damn them to hell or anything like that. It is just one of those things that no matter which way it is explained it doesn't change my stance and I don't change theirs. That's why when my former sister in-law gave me the certificate for Marion workers I just thanked her. She did it with a loving heart and sincerity. It is not right to give offense in that situation.

This being said Meriweather can talk til she/he are blue about praying to Mary or asking her to pray for anyone. It is the same answer I have gotten from others I have asked. To non Catholics it makes no sense what-so-ever but to Catholics..pfft...it is second nature and you can no more get that out of them than to stop them from saying "and also with you" as a knee jerk response to "Peace be with you"

What Catholics Really Believe - Setting the Record Straight - Books on Google Play

 

[Ravi]

Calling Priests "Father" is unbiblical.

Catholics are taught to call their priest, "Father", as a religious title of respect. Christians in the first century never called their leaders, "father". This first happened hundreds of years later.

Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"? No!

(See Matthew 23:9 below)
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

Thank you. When I ran across that I highlighted it in my bible some time ago.

Let me share an experience I had with a priest... I addressed the priest as title of Rev on the wedding invitations. We had a weird deal where he and the pastor of the church I married in co officiated. It became a big problem right up to a day or two before. We had to go through all this counseling and retreat etc then the priest tried to pull a fast one on me saying that my ex was required to sign some paper promising to bring any children to the Catholic church to be baptised after being told this was not required since we were not marrying in the Catholic church. Said I didn't have to sign it but my ex did. He didn't like my answer. Sat there with his jaw dropped open for a long while. I didn't tell him where he could stick it. I wasn't disrespectful. I said "You know, when God created man He endowed in each one of us a free will. Even Jesus. It says in the Gospel you so revere that when Jesus was on the cross he could have called a legion of angels. That means he sacrificed himself of his free will and you have quite the nerve to sit there and demand that your rule be followed and a document signed when our Father in Heaven didn't even demand Jesus die on the cross? we are not marrying in your church and we have a pastor so you do not even have to be there. " I do not think that guy had ever encountered someone like me before or since. He insisted he had to be there in respect for my ex's mother. I said do what you want but you can sit in the pew like everyone else. My ex wanted to sign it just to not make waves even though he didn't agree with it and said we can just do what we wish. I said oh no no, this is exactly why I would not marry there because there were documents to sign beyond a promise to teach children about Jesus. That man got a little taste of the fire of Jesus in the temple over turning tables was like that day.

For a gift(from his mother of all people) my ex was given this book which was really meant for me (given he was a Catholic since birth and apparently knew all this but when I asked her about such she couldn't give me an answer and neither could my ex) so I read it. The more I read the more angry I became. There is so much stuff that is taken out of context and practiced and set as doctrine that no matter what someone who is a true practicing Catholic tries to tell me otherwise all I see them as is deceived and that's their choice and not mine to bother to dissuade them. I am not like some who damn them to hell or anything like that. It is just one of those things that no matter which way it is explained it doesn't change my stance and I don't change theirs. That's why when my former sister in-law gave me the certificate for Marion workers I just thanked her. She did it with a loving heart and sincerity. It is not right to give offense in that situation.

This being said Meriweather can talk til she/he are blue about praying to Mary or asking her to pray for anyone. It is the same answer I have gotten from others I have asked. To non Catholics it makes no sense what-so-ever but to Catholics..pfft...it is second nature and you can no more get that out of them than to stop them from saying "and also with you" as a knee jerk response to "Peace be with you"

What Catholics Really Believe - Setting the Record Straight - Books on Google Play

If that actually happened, which I don't believe for a minute, the priest was retarded. If you aren't being married in the church you don't have to abide by church dictates.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you. When I ran across that I highlighted it in my bible some time ago.

Let me share an experience I had with a priest... I addressed the priest as title of Rev on the wedding invitations. We had a weird deal where he and the pastor of the church I married in co officiated. It became a big problem right up to a day or two before. We had to go through all this counseling and retreat etc then the priest tried to pull a fast one on me saying that my ex was required to sign some paper promising to bring any children to the Catholic church to be baptised after being told this was not required since we were not marrying in the Catholic church. Said I didn't have to sign it but my ex did. He didn't like my answer. Sat there with his jaw dropped open for a long while. I didn't tell him where he could stick it. I wasn't disrespectful. I said "You know, when God created man He endowed in each one of us a free will. Even Jesus. It says in the Gospel you so revere that when Jesus was on the cross he could have called a legion of angels. That means he sacrificed himself of his free will and you have quite the nerve to sit there and demand that your rule be followed and a document signed when our Father in Heaven didn't even demand Jesus die on the cross? we are not marrying in your church and we have a pastor so you do not even have to be there. " I do not think that guy had ever encountered someone like me before or since. He insisted he had to be there in respect for my ex's mother. I said do what you want but you can sit in the pew like everyone else. My ex wanted to sign it just to not make waves even though he didn't agree with it and said we can just do what we wish. I said oh no no, this is exactly why I would not marry there because there were documents to sign beyond a promise to teach children about Jesus. That man got a little taste of the fire of Jesus in the temple over turning tables was like that day.

For a gift(from his mother of all people) my ex was given this book which was really meant for me (given he was a Catholic since birth and apparently knew all this but when I asked her about such she couldn't give me an answer and neither could my ex) so I read it. The more I read the more angry I became. There is so much stuff that is taken out of context and practiced and set as doctrine that no matter what someone who is a true practicing Catholic tries to tell me otherwise all I see them as is deceived and that's their choice and not mine to bother to dissuade them. I am not like some who damn them to hell or anything like that. It is just one of those things that no matter which way it is explained it doesn't change my stance and I don't change theirs. That's why when my former sister in-law gave me the certificate for Marion workers I just thanked her. She did it with a loving heart and sincerity. It is not right to give offense in that situation.

This being said Meriweather can talk til she/he are blue about praying to Mary or asking her to pray for anyone. It is the same answer I have gotten from others I have asked. To non Catholics it makes no sense what-so-ever but to Catholics..pfft...it is second nature and you can no more get that out of them than to stop them from saying "and also with you" as a knee jerk response to "Peace be with you"

Since you mentioned me specifically, I have a response to your story. I married an atheist in the Catholic Church. He didn't have to verbally agree--let alone sign--a single thing (other than the marriage certificate). And neither did I.

As far as praying for/with other members of the Body of Christ, it doesn't have to make sense to you. Just get the the prepositions correct when you describe Catholic practices.

 

[TrinityPower]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

 

[TrinityPower]

I used to be a part of a Catholic group who had a prayer meeting every week. That was very different and strange to me given that meeting we had the same type of service as would what I deemed "regular church". There was stuff that happened there that was not within the confines of mass. In fact we were not allowed to have it inside the church we had to have it in the parish house or sometimes in the basement. They called it Charismatic, I called it normal. They had speakers come, we sang, some played instruments, there were words of knowledge, speaking in tongues and interpretations, etc. but it wasn't allowed inside the church. I really enjoyed that group. They had laying on of hands and prayer, everything to me what I considered normal church had but in a very small setting of people. I interacted with these people a lot and I enjoyed it. They did their mass thing on Sunday and went through the ceremony but I didn't attend that. I could not understand why they still did that part when they had their spiritual outpouring in the other meeting. Finally I just stopped trying to figure it out and said ok whatever.

 

[Ravi]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

 

[Ravi]

I used to be a part of a Catholic group who had a prayer meeting every week. That was very different and strange to me given that meeting we had the same type of service as would what I deemed "regular church". There was stuff that happened there that was not within the confines of mass. In fact we were not allowed to have it inside the church we had to have it in the parish house or sometimes in the basement. They called it Charismatic, I called it normal. They had speakers come, we sang, some played instruments, there were words of knowledge, speaking in tongues and interpretations, etc. but it wasn't allowed inside the church. I really enjoyed that group. They had laying on of hands and prayer, everything to me what I considered normal church had but in a very small setting of people. I interacted with these people a lot and I enjoyed it. They did their mass thing on Sunday and went through the ceremony but I didn't attend that. I could not understand why they still did that part when they had their spiritual outpouring in the other meeting. Finally I just stopped trying to figure it out and said ok whatever.

Probably better that way. Judging others in that manner is a sin.

 

[TrinityPower]

I am telling the truth about the priest. I do not think he was suppose to act as he did but HE DID! He wasn't at that church long after that either so my guess is someone blew the whistle on him and he did it to someone else. I don't know but he didn't stay at that church too long. I still see him sometimes at some larger community events so he IS still around somewhere but I think he volunteers to work in a fundraiser booth for right to life at the festival on his own time