Can Atheists be Moral?

[hobelim]

You say its all magical bullshit.

And you claim your particular, preferred pile of magical bullshit is the only magical bullshit that is not bullshit.

So, a rational person like me is left with two choices"

1) Shaman Hobelim holds the only, absolute divine truth, and everyone else is full of shit.

2) Shaman Hobelim is just as full of shit as eveyone else.

Its not a tough call.

lol,,, there you go again too..

I tell you there is hidden teaching in scripture just like any fairy tale and you say there is no hidden teaching. I mention a talking serpent and you said the authors 'absolutely' believed that snakes can talk. I tell you that a talking serpent is an archetype for a specific type of person described in great detail, which is true about any talking animal in a fairy tale, and you call you that magical bullshit.

Now thats quite the steaming pile of hypocritical bullshit right there dripping off your lips.



You two are just as dumb and deliberately blind as any deceptive religious fundamentalist nut job out there...

You know what conservatives can’t do? They can’t erase history especially when movies have been made about how religions felt about people who challenged their teachings like the earth isn’t the center of the universe

And Christians can’t say now that they never said Noah and Adam were real but instead just allegorical teachings. And Jonah. These stories were all factual just a century ago. In fact many still argue the earth is flat, god made the earth in 7 days and the earth is only 5000 years old.

The people who call themselves Christians but believe in evolution aren’t really Christians. They believe all the stories in the Bible are just allegories. The ones they can’t justify in their heads get filed away as allegories.

But then the question is was jesus just an allegory? Walking on water, miracles, virgin births, rising from the dead. The obvious answer is yes, he too is just an allegory. And a lot of people are ok with following Christianity even if jesus isn’t the literal son of god. They think Christianity is still a good club to be in. So they have a personal relationship with god even if they don’t believe the religion. Never even imagining god isn’t real. I know because this was my path to agnostic atheism

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I also see that you have made some errors in your speculations.

You heard about the claim that the earth was flat and dismissed it out of hand as bronze age ignorance because everyone now knows the earth is round but the earth being flat had nothing to do with the shape of the planet. It was about the earth being a level playing field, everyone was equal. There were no mountains or valleys, rich or poor.

The earth was flat in this way, in the beginning. Who would dispute that? Scripture speaking of otherworldly spheres of intelligent life seems to indicate that they knew that other planets were round before we confirmed the existence of other solar systems with planets.

In the same way the fantastical things that Jesus did were metaphors for something a real person actually did, whether raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, walking on water, etc., the title, Son of God, is just a relational metaphor, not a claim about God having supernatural offspring.

So I would suggest to you to leave the question of whether God exists or not open until you decipher the metaphors and come to comprehend the moral teaching and hard learned lessons of the past hidden in these fantastical stories written by enlightened men to educate their own children.



Seriously, if I what I just showed you about the earth being flat wasn't obvious, God won't be visible to you either.

Didn’t they see the moon was round? Maybe when they talked about other worlds being round they meant like the moon.

A circle can still be flat. Draw a circle on a piece of paper. See?

A circle can be flat but a sphere isn't. Anyone can look at the half moon with the naked eye and see that the moon is a sphere and not a flat circle..

Anyway They were not speaking about the shape of the planet by saying the earth was flat in the beginning.

The prophecies about the end of the age of darkness speak about the stars falling from the sky, mountains crumbling and valleys being lifted up which shows that the earth will be flat again one day, as it was in the beginning.

The end of the age is not about cosmic catastrophe. It's about social upheaval and change, just like the morning after the first creation of heaven and earth when light was established on earth through law and many people rebelled against it once it dawned on them that they were depicted as vile and loathsome, foul, unclean, dumb, or creepy creatures in the divine menu.

 

[hobelim]

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated idolator, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

 

[ding]

Let me correct a couple of misperceptions.

God, through the Holy Spirt, doesn't just speak to me or other believers, he's speaking to you and everyone else. You're just not listening.

That's not as critical as it sounds, because I get it. My selfish sin nature makes it difficult for me to listen to HIM too.

God (through the Holy Spirit) doesn't communicate "truth" to me. He provides practical direction in the minute to minute decisions I have to make in my daily life.

You see God doesn't provide truth, he IS righteous and true.

As a Christian, I am not better than you. I'm not smarter than you. I don't have any greater understanding of anything other than this. I'm a sinner, like you, but I can't redeem myself.

You seek truth? That's the truth I understand and that you don't.

You have made it clear that you don't feel that you need God and can do it all yourself.

Good luck to you, I tried that for years and was unsuccessful. If you can pull it off, you're a better man than me.

.

I'm a sinner, like you, but I can't redeem myself.

what are the sins you can not stop committing, you fool yourself by the 4th century christian religion - follow the true religion as prescribed by the Almighty, triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting.

A sin is simply choosing not to do the perfect will of God. When I choose to do my own selfish will instead of the perfect will of God (for whatever reason), I sin. Remember it's not just the act (or thought), it's the heart behind the act (or thought).

The list of sins I never commit would be must shorter than the list of sins I do commit.

This "what are the sins you can't stop committing" is not a gotcha, it's as silly as asking "what bad food can't you stop eating". If you don't eat perfectly, there are too many kinds of foods you eat (or have eaten your entire life), but shouldn't.

Feel free to flesh out your 4th century religion argument, but it has two flaws going in.

First there were many false religions and false teachings in the early church.

If what your espousing was the true word of an all powerful God, why did it die out?

.

When I choose to do my own selfish will instead of the perfect will of God (for whatever reason), I sin.

and that is something you can not control - so you rely on a makebelieve messiah to save you when your evil deeds affect others ...

the prescribed religion of the Almighty is to triumph over evil - that is your sin against their will - good luck.

Breezewood,

are you arguing that man can not control his selfish nature?

.

are you arguing that man can not control his selfish nature?

again, it is you who is unable not to be a sinner and will not reveal what those sins are ... and makebelive in a messiah you undoubtedly had a hand in crucifying to save you from your own just reward. as always, good luck christian.

I don’t believe that is what he is saying at all. He is saying he can’t redeem himself. He can’t reconcile justice with mercy. That is God’s call.

But what he can do is to move towards God and by doing so God rushes towards him like the father did in the parable of the prodigal son when the son made the first move towards the father.

 

[ding]

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated sinner, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

You don’t believe in God. So you don’t believe in “Hebbin” or sin.

Your only mission here is to subordinate religion and condemn respect for people of faith.

You don’t have faith that God would be born into this world to sacrifice himself to reconcile justice and mercy. I do. And because I do, he comes rushing towards me when I make an effort to move towards him.

You have never tested this so you are incapable of experiencing it. But you are more than happy to criticize and insult those that have.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, it is. And oops, no way to tell who is right. The downfall of magical whimsy.

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

 

[ding]

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

You don’t have to be a Christian to move towards God. You only have to desire a relationship with the Creator of existence. You will never understand what I am saying until you test this for yourself.

 

[ding]

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

Something like God shouldn’t be subjective?

God isn’t subjective. Humans are subjective. So why wouldn’t human perceptions be subjective?

There was a point in time when humans did not know math. But math existed despite man’s ignorance of math, right?

Truth is discovered. So just because you have not discovered it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

Something like God shouldn’t be subjective?

God isn’t subjective. Humans are subjective. So why wouldn’t human perceptions be subjective?

There was a point in time when humans did not know math. But math existed despite man’s ignorance of math, right?

Truth is discovered. So just because you have not discovered it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

That's why I'm looking into Hinduism. Seems truthful. Makes sense. Buddism too.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

You don’t have to be a Christian to move towards God. You only have to desire a relationship with the Creator of existence. You will never understand what I am saying until you test this for yourself.

Then you aren't a Christian

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Oh now we will get to hear DING's spin on this. His translation. Let's hear it Ding.

And sorry ding but I've told you before that I already tested your theory for a couple decades. I was kidding myself. You couldn't want it any more than I did. I thought I had a personal relationship with god, then I woke up. Even after I woke up I would find myself talking to god when I was walking or driving around. I had to remind myself I'm talking to nothing.

 

[hobelim]

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated sinner, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

You don’t believe in God. So you don’t believe in “Hebbin” or sin.

Your only mission here is to subordinate religion and condemn respect for people of faith.

You don’t have faith that God would be born into this world to sacrifice himself to reconcile justice and mercy. I do. And because I do, he comes rushing towards me when I make an effort to move towards him.

You have never tested this so you are incapable of experiencing it. But you are more than happy to criticize and insult those that have.

Of course I believe in God, thats why I would rather be drawn and quartered than to turn to a lifeless matzo made by human hands for spiritual life which is sin.

And of course I have tested your claims. This is what I found out. According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

Now I do not dispute that you are having a spiritual experience by engaging in such a vile and degrading practice.

Its just not a very good one.

 

[ding]

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

Something like God shouldn’t be subjective?

God isn’t subjective. Humans are subjective. So why wouldn’t human perceptions be subjective?

There was a point in time when humans did not know math. But math existed despite man’s ignorance of math, right?

Truth is discovered. So just because you have not discovered it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

That's why I'm looking into Hinduism. Seems truthful. Makes sense. Buddism too.

Good for you. I hope you find what you are looking for. I studied them all too.

 

[ding]

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated sinner, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

You don’t believe in God. So you don’t believe in “Hebbin” or sin.

Your only mission here is to subordinate religion and condemn respect for people of faith.

You don’t have faith that God would be born into this world to sacrifice himself to reconcile justice and mercy. I do. And because I do, he comes rushing towards me when I make an effort to move towards him.

You have never tested this so you are incapable of experiencing it. But you are more than happy to criticize and insult those that have.

Of course I believe in God, thats why I would rather be drawn and quartered than to turn to a lifeless matzo made by human hands for spiritual life.

And of course I have tested your claims. This is what I found out. According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

Now I do not dispute that you are having a spiritual experience by engaging in such a vile and degrading practice.

Its just not a very good one.

I don’t believe you do.

 

[ding]

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

You don’t have to be a Christian to move towards God. You only have to desire a relationship with the Creator of existence. You will never understand what I am saying until you test this for yourself.

Then you aren't a Christian

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Oh now we will get to hear DING's spin on this. His translation. Let's hear it Ding.

And sorry ding but I've told you before that I already tested your theory for a couple decades. I was kidding myself. You couldn't want it any more than I did. I thought I had a personal relationship with god, then I woke up. Even after I woke up I would find myself talking to god when I was walking or driving around. I had to remind myself I'm talking to nothing.

I can live with you believing whatever you want about me. No skin off my teeth.

 

[hobelim]

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated sinner, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

You don’t believe in God. So you don’t believe in “Hebbin” or sin.

Your only mission here is to subordinate religion and condemn respect for people of faith.

You don’t have faith that God would be born into this world to sacrifice himself to reconcile justice and mercy. I do. And because I do, he comes rushing towards me when I make an effort to move towards him.

You have never tested this so you are incapable of experiencing it. But you are more than happy to criticize and insult those that have.

Of course I believe in God, thats why I would rather be drawn and quartered than to turn to a lifeless matzo made by human hands for spiritual life which is sin.

And of course I have tested your claims. This is what I found out. According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

Now I do not dispute that you are having a spiritual experience by engaging in such a vile and degrading practice.

Its just not a very good one.

I don’t believe you do.

You don't believe that I believe in God because I do not believe in your false three in one edible mangod.

Thats fine with me.

According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

I will never become an idolator and so I will never know what its like to be dead. I will never be flailing around in fire lake trying to convince someone else that I am saved.

Woe is me.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What is it that you believe I have tested?

The thing you said you tested. Ding,please try to follow a simple discussion.

 

[ding]

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated sinner, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

You don’t believe in God. So you don’t believe in “Hebbin” or sin.

Your only mission here is to subordinate religion and condemn respect for people of faith.

You don’t have faith that God would be born into this world to sacrifice himself to reconcile justice and mercy. I do. And because I do, he comes rushing towards me when I make an effort to move towards him.

You have never tested this so you are incapable of experiencing it. But you are more than happy to criticize and insult those that have.

Of course I believe in God, thats why I would rather be drawn and quartered than to turn to a lifeless matzo made by human hands for spiritual life which is sin.

And of course I have tested your claims. This is what I found out. According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

Now I do not dispute that you are having a spiritual experience by engaging in such a vile and degrading practice.

Its just not a very good one.

I don’t believe you do.

You don't believe that I believe in God because I do not believe in your false three in one edible mangod.

Thats fine with me.

According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

I will never become an idolator and so I will never know what its like to be dead. I will never be flailing around in fire lake trying to convince someone else that I am saved.

Woe is me.

I'm curious, is your basis that I worship a false God based upon the Old Testament?

The God of Abraham?

You aren't Jewish, are you? So it's really odd that you would adopt the Old Testament as your authority, don't you think?

 

[ding]

What is it that you believe I have tested?

The thing you said you tested. Ding,please try to follow a simple discussion.

I know what it is, but you don't. Prove me wrong.

 

[ding]

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

You don’t have to be a Christian to move towards God. You only have to desire a relationship with the Creator of existence. You will never understand what I am saying until you test this for yourself.

Then you aren't a Christian

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Oh now we will get to hear DING's spin on this. His translation. Let's hear it Ding.

And sorry ding but I've told you before that I already tested your theory for a couple decades. I was kidding myself. You couldn't want it any more than I did. I thought I had a personal relationship with god, then I woke up. Even after I woke up I would find myself talking to god when I was walking or driving around. I had to remind myself I'm talking to nothing.

It really drives you crazy that I don't argue you have to be Christian to go to heaven, doesn't it?

Just curious, is that what your father believes? Does it bother you that that is his belief?

 

[sealybobo]

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

Depends. What is 2 + 2. Do you have an opinion on that or is the universal answer 4?

Something like god shouldn't be subjective should it? He either came and visited 2000 years ago or he didn't. See where I'm going with this? You should.

What I'm getting from your comment is that your religion is just the main religion in your neck of the woods. And even in your neck of the woods yall can't even agree on such things as who goes to heaven, what gets you to heaven, if there is a hell, etc.....

No wonder so many people in the world don't believe the Jesus myth.

You don’t have to be a Christian to move towards God. You only have to desire a relationship with the Creator of existence. You will never understand what I am saying until you test this for yourself.

Then you aren't a Christian

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Oh now we will get to hear DING's spin on this. His translation. Let's hear it Ding.

And sorry ding but I've told you before that I already tested your theory for a couple decades. I was kidding myself. You couldn't want it any more than I did. I thought I had a personal relationship with god, then I woke up. Even after I woke up I would find myself talking to god when I was walking or driving around. I had to remind myself I'm talking to nothing.

It really drives you crazy that I don't argue you have to be Christian to go to heaven, doesn't it?

Just curious, is that what your father believes? Does it bother you that that is his belief?

He doesn’t believe that. He knows Christianity is made up but he still believes there must be a god. Too perfect for there not to be. That makes perfect sense to him. He hopes there is a heaven for all the obvious reasons.

 

[sealybobo]

Ding just can't stop lying in the name of God, misleading others, and worshipping and then eating a lifeless matzo made by human hands.

He is a dedicated sinner, he doesn't know his ass from his elbow, a sin from a banana, why would he stop?

he's proud of it. He thinks he is going up to hebbin.

You don’t believe in God. So you don’t believe in “Hebbin” or sin.

Your only mission here is to subordinate religion and condemn respect for people of faith.

You don’t have faith that God would be born into this world to sacrifice himself to reconcile justice and mercy. I do. And because I do, he comes rushing towards me when I make an effort to move towards him.

You have never tested this so you are incapable of experiencing it. But you are more than happy to criticize and insult those that have.

Of course I believe in God, thats why I would rather be drawn and quartered than to turn to a lifeless matzo made by human hands for spiritual life which is sin.

And of course I have tested your claims. This is what I found out. According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

Now I do not dispute that you are having a spiritual experience by engaging in such a vile and degrading practice.

Its just not a very good one.

I don’t believe you do.

You don't believe that I believe in God because I do not believe in your false three in one edible mangod.

Thats fine with me.

According to your own holy book you are an idolator. You died in the very day that you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a lifeless cracker for spiritual life and in the twinkling of an eye you descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you have been tortured for decades day and night by the demons of your own unrestrained imagination condemning yourself to a prison forever at odds with reality that will always appear to the dead like a fire that will never go out.

I will never become an idolator and so I will never know what its like to be dead. I will never be flailing around in fire lake trying to convince someone else that I am saved.

Woe is me.

I'm curious, is your basis that I worship a false God based upon the Old Testament?

The God of Abraham?

You aren't Jewish, are you? So it's really odd that you would adopt the Old Testament as your authority, don't you think?

The Jews call bullshit on the messiah story but you have to defend the Jewish story because it’s your origins.

I love how you guys explain how it doesn’t matter what the Old Testament says just focus on the new