Can Atheists be Moral?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

How do you know what I have or have not done?

Because your claim is insane and false.

 

[ding]

How do you know what I have or have not done?

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

How do you know what I have or have not done?

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

 

[MedfordMan]

Ironically, in Isaiah 40:22, the Bible states that the earth is round long before modern science was around

No it doesn't. How absurd. For every overwrought attempt to peddle that nonsense, one can just as easily produce passages from the bible that imply the earth is flat.

Much ado about nothing

Excuse you, its germane to your point. In one breath, you claim not to be in possession of the one, divine truth. In the next, you claim god communicates this truth to you. And,in the next, you claim that your magical beliefs are correct, while those of other religions are wrong. I can see how you would want to sidestep this obvious contradiction in your talking points, because it discredits you utterly .

Let me correct a couple of misperceptions.

God, through the Holy Spirt, doesn't just speak to me or other believers, he's speaking to you and everyone else. You're just not listening.

That's not as critical as it sounds, because I get it. My selfish sin nature makes it difficult for me to listen to HIM too.

God (through the Holy Spirit) doesn't communicate "truth" to me. He provides practical direction in the minute to minute decisions I have to make in my daily life.

You see God doesn't provide truth, he IS righteous and true.

As a Christian, I am not better than you. I'm not smarter than you. I don't have any greater understanding of anything other than this. I'm a sinner, like you, but I can't redeem myself.

You seek truth? That's the truth I understand and that you don't.

You have made it clear that you don't feel that you need God and can do it all yourself.

Good luck to you, I tried that for years and was unsuccessful. If you can pull it off, you're a better man than me.

.

I'm a sinner, like you, but I can't redeem myself.

what are the sins you can not stop committing, you fool yourself by the 4th century christian religion - follow the true religion as prescribed by the Almighty, triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting.

A sin is simply choosing not to do the perfect will of God. When I choose to do my own selfish will instead of the perfect will of God (for whatever reason), I sin. Remember it's not just the act (or thought), it's the heart behind the act (or thought).

The list of sins I never commit would be must shorter than the list of sins I do commit.

This "what are the sins you can't stop committing" is not a gotcha, it's as silly as asking "what bad food can't you stop eating". If you don't eat perfectly, there are too many kinds of foods you eat (or have eaten your entire life), but shouldn't.

Feel free to flesh out your 4th century religion argument, but it has two flaws going in.

First there were many false religions and false teachings in the early church.

If what your espousing was the true word of an all powerful God, why did it die out?

.

When I choose to do my own selfish will instead of the perfect will of God (for whatever reason), I sin.

and that is something you can not control - so you rely on a makebelieve messiah to save you when your evil deeds affect others ...

the prescribed religion of the Almighty is to triumph over evil - that is your sin against their will - good luck.

Breezewood,

are you arguing that man can not control his selfish nature?

 

[BreezeWood]

No it doesn't. How absurd. For every overwrought attempt to peddle that nonsense, one can just as easily produce passages from the bible that imply the earth is flat.

Excuse you, its germane to your point. In one breath, you claim not to be in possession of the one, divine truth. In the next, you claim god communicates this truth to you. And,in the next, you claim that your magical beliefs are correct, while those of other religions are wrong. I can see how you would want to sidestep this obvious contradiction in your talking points, because it discredits you utterly .

Let me correct a couple of misperceptions.

God, through the Holy Spirt, doesn't just speak to me or other believers, he's speaking to you and everyone else. You're just not listening.

That's not as critical as it sounds, because I get it. My selfish sin nature makes it difficult for me to listen to HIM too.

God (through the Holy Spirit) doesn't communicate "truth" to me. He provides practical direction in the minute to minute decisions I have to make in my daily life.

You see God doesn't provide truth, he IS righteous and true.

As a Christian, I am not better than you. I'm not smarter than you. I don't have any greater understanding of anything other than this. I'm a sinner, like you, but I can't redeem myself.

You seek truth? That's the truth I understand and that you don't.

You have made it clear that you don't feel that you need God and can do it all yourself.

Good luck to you, I tried that for years and was unsuccessful. If you can pull it off, you're a better man than me.

.

I'm a sinner, like you, but I can't redeem myself.

what are the sins you can not stop committing, you fool yourself by the 4th century christian religion - follow the true religion as prescribed by the Almighty, triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting.

A sin is simply choosing not to do the perfect will of God. When I choose to do my own selfish will instead of the perfect will of God (for whatever reason), I sin. Remember it's not just the act (or thought), it's the heart behind the act (or thought).

The list of sins I never commit would be must shorter than the list of sins I do commit.

This "what are the sins you can't stop committing" is not a gotcha, it's as silly as asking "what bad food can't you stop eating". If you don't eat perfectly, there are too many kinds of foods you eat (or have eaten your entire life), but shouldn't.

Feel free to flesh out your 4th century religion argument, but it has two flaws going in.

First there were many false religions and false teachings in the early church.

If what your espousing was the true word of an all powerful God, why did it die out?

.

When I choose to do my own selfish will instead of the perfect will of God (for whatever reason), I sin.

and that is something you can not control - so you rely on a makebelieve messiah to save you when your evil deeds affect others ...

the prescribed religion of the Almighty is to triumph over evil - that is your sin against their will - good luck.

Breezewood,

are you arguing that man can not control his selfish nature?

.

are you arguing that man can not control his selfish nature?

again, it is you who is unable not to be a sinner and will not reveal what those sins are ... and makebelive in a messiah you undoubtedly had a hand in crucifying to save you from your own just reward. as always, good luck christian.

 

[RWS]

I don't see the correlation between morality and one's religious beliefs, or lack of religious beliefs.

Yes. exactly what we're tying to say. But religions think otherwise.

 

[RWS]

God cannot exist when he allows his priests to molest little children

At least, that's not the god i want to follow....

 

[ding]

How do you know what I have or have not done?

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

 

[RWS]

How do you know what I have or have not done?

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Because your religion does.

 

[ding]

How do you know what I have or have not done?

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Why would I?

 

[sealybobo]

That’s not how it works.

Yes it is.

No. It’s not. The fact that you think it is just might be the root cause of all your erroneous beliefs about Christianity.

Yes, it is. And oops, no way to tell who is right. The downfall of magical whimsy.

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

 

[ding]

That’s not how it works.

Yes it is.

No. It’s not. The fact that you think it is just might be the root cause of all your erroneous beliefs about Christianity.

Yes, it is. And oops, no way to tell who is right. The downfall of magical whimsy.

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

 

[sealybobo]

You say its all magical bullshit.

And you claim your particular, preferred pile of magical bullshit is the only magical bullshit that is not bullshit.

So, a rational person like me is left with two choices"

1) Shaman Hobelim holds the only, absolute divine truth, and everyone else is full of shit.

2) Shaman Hobelim is just as full of shit as eveyone else.

Its not a tough call.

lol,,, there you go again too..

I tell you there is hidden teaching in scripture just like any fairy tale and you say there is no hidden teaching. I mention a talking serpent and you said the authors 'absolutely' believed that snakes can talk. I tell you that a talking serpent is an archetype for a specific type of person described in great detail, which is true about any talking animal in a fairy tale, and you call you that magical bullshit.

Now thats quite the steaming pile of hypocritical bullshit right there dripping off your lips.



You two are just as dumb and deliberately blind as any deceptive religious fundamentalist nut job out there...

You know what conservatives can’t do? They can’t erase history especially when movies have been made about how religions felt about people who challenged their teachings like the earth isn’t the center of the universe

And Christians can’t say now that they never said Noah and Adam were real but instead just allegorical teachings. And Jonah. These stories were all factual just a century ago. In fact many still argue the earth is flat, god made the earth in 7 days and the earth is only 5000 years old.

The people who call themselves Christians but believe in evolution aren’t really Christians. They believe all the stories in the Bible are just allegories. The ones they can’t justify in their heads get filed away as allegories.

But then the question is was jesus just an allegory? Walking on water, miracles, virgin births, rising from the dead. The obvious answer is yes, he too is just an allegory. And a lot of people are ok with following Christianity even if jesus isn’t the literal son of god. They think Christianity is still a good club to be in. So they have a personal relationship with god even if they don’t believe the religion. Never even imagining god isn’t real. I know because this was my path to agnostic atheism

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I also see that you have made some errors in your speculations.

You heard about the claim that the earth was flat and dismissed it out of hand as bronze age ignorance because everyone now knows the earth is round but the earth being flat had nothing to do with the shape of the planet. It was about the earth being a level playing field, everyone was equal. There were no mountains or valleys, rich or poor.

The earth was flat in this way, in the beginning. Who would dispute that? Scripture speaking of otherworldly spheres of intelligent life seems to indicate that they knew that other planets were round before we confirmed the existence of other solar systems with planets.

In the same way the fantastical things that Jesus did were metaphors for something a real person actually did, whether raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, walking on water, etc., the title, Son of God, is just a relational metaphor, not a claim about God having supernatural offspring.

So I would suggest to you to leave the question of whether God exists or not open until you decipher the metaphors and come to comprehend the moral teaching and hard learned lessons of the past hidden in these fantastical stories written by enlightened men to educate their own children.



Seriously, if I what I just showed you about the earth being flat wasn't obvious, God won't be visible to you either.

Didn’t they see the moon was round? Maybe when they talked about other worlds being round they meant like the moon.

A circle can still be flat. Draw a circle on a piece of paper. See?

 

[sealybobo]

Yes it is.

No. It’s not. The fact that you think it is just might be the root cause of all your erroneous beliefs about Christianity.

Yes, it is. And oops, no way to tell who is right. The downfall of magical whimsy.

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

 

[RWS]

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Why would I?

Because you believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

 

[RWS]

Because your claim is insane and false.

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Because your religion does.

You are up awful early.
I'm up awfully early. And have to deal with your bs.

Or is it you are up awfully late?

 

[ding]

No. It’s not. The fact that you think it is just might be the root cause of all your erroneous beliefs about Christianity.

Yes, it is. And oops, no way to tell who is right. The downfall of magical whimsy.

Wrong. You seem to have swallowed the Protestant belief. The problem is that even the Protestant belief assumes that the fabric of the identity changes when one enters into a relationship with the living Christ.

Your specific problem is that you believe it is like a get out of jail for free card. It isn’t.

Maybe one day you’ll convince us to understand Christianity exactly like you. But then the next person will come along and tell us you have it all wrong.

This is the problem with religions. You guys can’t even get on the same page.

And every person who falls for the scam is victim to whatever nut they come in contact with. Could be their parents, a preacher, you, David Koresh, Charles Manson, osama bin ladin

I don’t care to convince you. Only to correct you.

But that’s only how you see it? Do priests and preachers see it your way? Really? What denomination are you?

That’s a really curious expectation, don’t you think?

Everyone should believe and do the same thing?

Why?

 

[ding]

What is it that you believe my claim is?

And how do you know it is false?

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Why would I?

Because you believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

No. You believe I believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

 

[BreezeWood]

Good grief, try to follow a simple conversation.

And I know that you did not test anything. Ding, you should know by now that your lies are lost on me.

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Why would I?

Because you believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

No. You believe I believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

.

No. You believe I believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

 

[ding]

You don’t even know what you are arguing.

What is it that you believe I have tested?

How do you know I haven’t tested it?

Did I not explain it already to you?

Do you like little children as a sexual toy?

Why would I?

Because you believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

No. You believe I believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

.

No. You believe I believe in a religion that promotes child molestation.

then tell us the sins you are unable to stop committing, christian so we understand what your failings are the same as your priests you have condoned since the 4th century - the religion of sinners.

Yes, Christianity is a religion for sinners.

Apparently you don’t believe God exists so you don’t believe sin exists. I don’t believe you know what sin is in the context of this discussion. Which is why you think your point is a big deal. It isn’t. Sin is nothing more or less than anything that distances us from God.

So the question is why can’t I stop distancing myself from God. The answer is the same as it has always been since the very beginning... pride; love of self.

So the answer to the problem is dying to self which all religions teach. That is a process, not an event. It is a journey; a way. One that has ups and downs. But the rewards are great, we get to see reality.