Birthright Citizenship…Arguments to begin this week at the Supreme Court.

[toobfreak]

And yet they suck up billions in welfare, and steal and scam billions more.

That is all ending now. The era of democrats running America into the gutter are over.

 

[Delldude]

Where is that baby

Where is that baby from?

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If you think that was the original intent,
a) You've had no education in the founding documents
b) You've had no education in competent legal opinion
c) You've had no education in Constitution and what the original intent of each clause/amendment was at the time it was ratified.

The 14th Amendment is not a founding document! You apparently have no education in this matter.

 

[Unkotare]

What's that supposed to mean?

Where is the baby from? Where has it lived before?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Again I am 100% certain neither the Founders nor the authors of the 14th Amendment intended that children born to visitors or those on other short term visas would be citizens of the USA. That is why the clause 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof' was included in the 14th Amendment.

The purpose of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to those black Americans born on U.S. soil and had no home country to return to. They certainly did not intend for it to be interpreted that the poor and opportunistic of the entire world come here to have their babies and thereby forever be allowed to stay here in perpetuity.

Your problem is that intent is not documented in the Constitution,

 

[Delldude]

Where is the baby from? Where has it lived before?

In the mother's womb.

 

[Delldude]

Your problem is that intent is not documented in the Constitution,

Neither is any language addressing BRC.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You're stupid!

No, he is correct. There are many threads on this forum which explains why he is correct. perhaps you should review them, rather than beating a dead horse.

 

[Care4all]

What makes you think the founders intended to adopt the English common law doctrine of jus soli where if you were born in the King's Kingdom, you were a subject of the king. This was precisely the type of control that we fought and won our independence from.

Because that is what they did....adopted Jus Soli....=natural born citizen. Birthright citizenship.

Pre-Amendment citizenship law​

edit
Before the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, the antebellum United States generally embraced the common-law doctrine of citizenship by birth within the country. Justice Joseph Story described the rule in Inglis v. Trustees of Sailor's Snug Harbor:

The rule commonly laid down in the books is, that every person who is born within the ligeance of a sovereign is a subject; and, e converso, that every person born without such allegiance is an alien. . . . Two things usually concur to create citizenship; first, birth locally within the dominions of the sovereign; and secondly, birth within the protection and obedience, or in other words, within the ligeance of the sovereign. That is, the party must be born within a place where the sovereign is at the time in full possession and exercise of his power, and the party must also at his birth derive protection from, and consequently owe obedience or allegiance to the sovereign, as such, de facto.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>

Story excluded children of ambassadors and the children of occupying enemy soldiers from those eligible for citizenship under the common law.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> But the rule also applied only to the people born of "free persons," thus excluding the children of slaves.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> The rule also excluded the children of Native Americans living in tribes, on the reasoning that they were born under the dominion of their tribes, and not within the purview of the law of the United States.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>

To those outside the above categories, the rule was generous in scope. One antebellum treatise, by William Rawle, stated: "Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a>

In the 1844 New York case of Lynch v. Clarke, the court held that the common law doctrine applied in the United States, and ruled that a child born in the country of a temporary visitor was a natural-born citizen under this rule.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a>

Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law, framed the rule in terms similar to what would become the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment: “Natives,” he said, “are all persons born within the jurisdiction of the United States,” while “[a]n alien,” conversely, “is a person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States.”<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a>

The most significant challenge to the common law rule of birthright citizenship before the Civil War came from attacks on the rights of African-Americans, most famously in the United States Supreme Court's 1857 decision of Dred Scott v. Sandford, in which the court held that free African-Americans, though born in the United States, could not be citizens.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a> The dissenting justices relied on the common law rule of citizenship to challenge the majority decision. Justice John McLean, in his dissent, said of Dred Scott himself, "Being born under our Constitution and laws, no naturalization is required, as one of foreign birth, to make him a citizen."<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a> And Justice Benjamin Curtis, in his dissent, stated, "t is a principle of public law, recognized by the Constitution itself, that birth on the soil of a country both creates the duties and confers the rights of citizenship.”<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>


After the Civil War, the U.S. Congress moved to grant citizenship to freed slaves, and to overrule the Dred Scott decision. Their first action was the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which declared: "... all persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States."

Representative James F. Wilson of Iowa, upon introducing the citizenship clause of the Act, stated that it was "merely declaratory of what the law now is," and recounted at length the common law history of birthright citizenship.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>15<span>]</span></a> Representative John Bingham of Ohio affirmed that the clause was "simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution," with specific reference to the "natural-born citizen" qualification for presidential office.<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>16<span>]</span></a>

The Fourteenth Amendment's citizenship clause was drafted in response to Senator Benjamin Wade's concern that, although the question of citizenship was "settled by the civil rights bill, and, indeed, . . . was settled before," there was a danger that "the Government should fall into the hands of those who are opposed to the views that some of us maintain."<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>17<span>]</span></a> Thus it was Congress's obligation to "fortify and make [the citizenship guarantee] very strong and clear."<a href="Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>18<span>]</span></a>

Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Unkotare]

In the mother's womb.

Where?

 

[Rawley]

Because that is what they did....adopted Jus Soli....=natural born citizen. Birthright citizenship.

According to the opinion of the one who wrote your wiki page. You should know by now not to trust wiki.

 

[Delldude]

Where?

Need a refresher in anatomy?

 

[Unkotare]

Need a refresher in anatomy?

Need a refresher in geography?

 

[Delldude]

Need a refresher in geography?

LoL.....so a pregnant American pops a kid on vacation in China, now that kids Chinese?

 

[Care4all]

If you think that was the original intent,
a) You've had no education in the founding documents
b) You've had no education in competent legal opinion
c) You've had no education in Constitution and what the original intent of each clause/amendment was at the time it was ratified.

And you are wrong on this, in every way. There are lots of supporting the content links within this link. Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia

From our founding as a Nation, children born of free aliens on our soil had birthright citizenship...with the exception of children born of those foreigners with diplomatic immunity, enemy soldiers, Native Americans, and Slaves. This was not newly created in the 14th amendment....the 14th simply included slaves in what the law already was for everyone else.

 

[Foxfyre]

The 14th Amendment is not a founding document! You apparently have no education in this matter.

Still haven't taken that remedial reading comprehension course I recommended I see. The Constitution was supported by numerous texts of argument and debate and process of thought that constitute the founding documents.. And those documents illustrate the original intent of the various clauses of the Constitution.

The 14th Amendments wasn't fabricated out of thin air but, like the Constitution and all amendments, was forged out of careful debate, discussion, pros, cons, thought, concern, consideration and it too had original intent.

 

[Unkotare]

LoL.....so a pregnant American pops a kid ......

Pregnant women give birth. They do not "pop." Were you "popped" or birthed?

 

[Unkotare]

... on vacation in China, now that kids Chinese?

That would be up to China. Do you live in China?

 

[Foxfyre]

And you are wrong on this, in every way. There are lots of supporting the content links within this link. Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia

From our founding as a Nation, children born of aliens on our soil had birthright citizenship...with the exception of children born of those foreigners with diplomatic immunity, enemy soldiers, Native Americans, and Slaves.

I wouldn't presume to know much if my only source was Wikipedia. Sorry.

 

[Delldude]

And you are wrong on this, in every way. There are lots of supporting the content links within this link. Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia

From our founding as a Nation, children born of aliens on our soil had birthright citizenship...with the exception of children born of those foreigners with diplomatic immunity, enemy soldiers, Native Americans, and Slaves.

What's going to matter isn't what is debated here.....its what the SCOTUS interpretation is.