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At what point will Americans stop buying stuff?

bendog

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Economic growth is projected by some analysts to have been negative in the second quarter of the year, but hiring is strong and the jobless rate sits near historic lows. Consumers say they’re unhappy about the economy but are still spending even amid the aggressive price spikes. Supply chains are improving, but manufacturing output is slowing. And Covid cases are skyrocketing again even as America fully reopens for business.

People are still reluctantly accepting job offers, but perhaps they are just spending their "extra" income to offset inflation, and even making the feds' interest rate hikes ineffective.
 

Hugo Furst

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When D C runs out of Other Peoples Money.
 

Billy_Bob

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Economic growth is projected by some analysts to have been negative in the second quarter of the year, but hiring is strong and the jobless rate sits near historic lows. Consumers say they’re unhappy about the economy but are still spending even amid the aggressive price spikes. Supply chains are improving, but manufacturing output is slowing. And Covid cases are skyrocketing again even as America fully reopens for business.

People are still reluctantly accepting job offers, but perhaps they are just spending their "extra" income to offset inflation, and even making the feds' interest rate hikes ineffective.
The drop in fuel prices is due to the drop in demand. Dumbfuck democrats do not understand simple supply and demand economics... And now Biden is taking a victory lap for placing US Citizens in a position to reduce using resources and claiming he reduced the price., when it has nothing to do with Biden and his dumbfuck advisors... Biden is a fucktard as are democrats who think this is good..
 
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bendog

bendog

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The drop in fuel prices is due to the drop in demand. Dumbfuck democrats do not understand simple supply and demand economics... And now Biden is taking a victory lap for placing US Citizens in a position to reduce using resources and claiming he reduced the price., when it has nothing to do with Biden and his dumbfuck advisors... Biden is a fucktard as are democrats who think this is good..
your comment has nothing to do with either my post or the link, but thank you for playing.
 

Billy_Bob

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your comment has nothing to do with either my post or the link, but thank you for playing.
My point exactly... You do not understand supply/demand side economics.

You make it too expensive, and people stop using it. But that also has negative consequences on food, utilities, such as water, electricity, medications, heating fuels, EVERYTHING. The cost to make things. The cost to transport things, the cost to keep it cold and keep it from spoiling.. EVERYTHING..

You fucktardo idiots are causing the US growth to implode and lower the US standard of living. You all think the average American hasn't noticed??? You really are fucking stupid; November can't come fast enough for me to kick your collective asses out of power.
 
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bendog

bendog

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When D C runs out of Other Peoples Money.
yeah but since Manchin won't vote for more money for people to stay home, eventually people will run out of cash. Some people (millions) qualified for social sec disability or took "early" soc sec, but neither pays as much as full time work, and those people earn less now than they would have by working their previous jobs. So, as rates rise, those who physically can work, should find jobs.

But again, there's so much "slack" from people not working, interest rates will have to rise before those folks are forced to work. And labor force participation declined for over a decade as Boomers aged out, and under Trump we actually stopped most legal immigration ... so unless there are enough workers, employers will just continue bidding up payroll to find workers to change jobs. And strangely that was the goal of both Trump and the progs.

And btw the dems don't even have the votes to tax the 1% for soc sec and medicare.
 

Richard-H

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As inflation goes up, people buy less. Suppliers do not lower prices, they reduce the supply. That creates recession.
 
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bendog

bendog

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My point exactly... You do not understand supply/demand side economics.

You make it too expensive, and people stop using it. But that also has negative consequences on food, utilities, such as water, electricity, medications, heating fuels, EVERYTHING. The cost to make things. The cost to transport things, the cost to keep it cold and keep it from spoiling.. EVERYTHING..

You fucktardo idiots are causing the US growth to implode and lower the US standard of living. You all think the average American hasn't noticed??? You really are fucking stupid; November can't come fast enough for me to kick your collective asses out of power.
You don't seem to realize that Trump's tariffs were to make it more expensive to manft things so the "jobs would come back", but what if there aren't the workers available.?

You constantly look at things through partisan blinders. And you don't seem to understand that what we have no is insufficient supply, but cutting taxes as the gop likes to do will not be effective if there's labor shortage.
 
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bendog

bendog

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As inflation goes up, people buy less. Suppliers do not lower prices, they reduce the supply. That creates recession.
EXACTLY. Thank you. But my question is .... what if workers can just increase their pay by either coming back to work, or quitting one job to take another better one, leaving their former employer no option but to raise wages and prices? How can the Fed break the inflationary cause/effect chain?
 

Richard-H

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EXACTLY. Thank you. But my question is .... what if workers can just increase their pay by either coming back to work, or quitting one job to take another better one, leaving their former employer no option but to raise wages and prices? How can the Fed break the inflationary cause/effect chain?

That's the question. Since a recession will cause an reduction in employment, employees become disempowered. They won't be able to find jobs and get better wages.

It's classic class warfare, with employers having the advantage.

The only thing that the government can do is to create tax laws that make it beneficial for employers to hire more and pay better. It would have to be a stick rather than a carrot.

Drastically reducing the wealth gap whether the wealthy like it or not is the only way to fix the economy.
 

22lcidw

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Economic growth is projected by some analysts to have been negative in the second quarter of the year, but hiring is strong and the jobless rate sits near historic lows. Consumers say they’re unhappy about the economy but are still spending even amid the aggressive price spikes. Supply chains are improving, but manufacturing output is slowing. And Covid cases are skyrocketing again even as America fully reopens for business.

People are still reluctantly accepting job offers, but perhaps they are just spending their "extra" income to offset inflation, and even making the feds' interest rate hikes ineffective.
You do not want American produced stuff.
 
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bendog

bendog

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That's the question. Since a recession will cause an reduction in employment, employees become disempowered. They won't be able to find jobs and get better wages.

It's classic class warfare, with employers having the advantage.

The only thing that the government can do is to create tax laws that make it beneficial for employers to hire more and pay better. It would have to be a stick rather than a carrot.

Drastically reducing the wealth gap whether the wealthy like it or not is the only way to fix the economy.
Imo that's the answer to my question. I suppose the fed will have to raise rates so high to kill so many jobs that even our dwindling labor supply can't find work. Of course, we could have ADDed workers, which might reduce the demand for low wage jobs, and possibly stop wages from increasing.

But you're absolutely right, we're back to Carter/Reagan economics where workers pay and not unemployment is the fed's game. They want to make it so people can't afford to buy shit with paychecks or credit. Then demand collapses, and supply follows. Then rates can be lowered. And expansion and new jobs "happen." But damn, are we looking at 1978-82 interest rates?
 

Richard-H

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Imo that's the answer to my question. I suppose the fed will have to raise rates so high to kill so many jobs that even our dwindling labor supply can't find work. Of course, we could have ADDed workers, which might reduce the demand for low wage jobs, and possibly stop wages from increasing.

But you're absolutely right, we're back to Carter/Reagan economics where workers pay and not unemployment is the fed's game. They want to make it so people can't afford to buy shit with paychecks or credit. Then demand collapses, and supply follows. Then rates can be lowered. And expansion and new jobs "happen." But damn, are we looking at 1978-82 interest rates?

I'm not that familiar with the effect of interest rates, but I do know that there is a constant class war of the wealthy against the workers. Currently the wealthy are far too empowered and will do whatever it takes to drive workers into poverty. Perhaps a massive interest rate hike would help.

Back in the 60s & 70s we had a huge middle class, and a large amount of wealthy people. The wealth gap wasn't that great. Ultimately, closing the wealth gap isn't a war to end wealth - just the opposite - it will create many, many more wealthy people., but less ridiculously wealthy people.
 

22lcidw

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I want lower prices, and I oppose efforts by either party to negate that. We don't have enough workers to even do the jobs we have now
We need tariffs to bring manufacturing back.
 
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bendog

bendog

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I'm not that familiar with the effect of interest rates, but I do know that there is a constant class war of the wealthy against the workers. Currently the wealthy are far too empowered and will do whatever it takes to drive workers into poverty. Perhaps a massive interest rate hike would help.

Back in the 60s & 70s we had a huge middle class, and a large amount of wealthy people. The wealth gap wasn't that great. Ultimately, closing the wealth gap isn't a war to end wealth - just the opposite - it will create many, many more wealthy people., but less ridiculously wealthy people.
There was less wealth disparity in the 60s are early 70s, you're right. And I remember that in every ecoc expansion, work got easier to find and pay was better, but the fed would inevitably raise rates to kill jobs to prevent the econ from "overheating." It was frustrating from my perspective of being an unskilled laborer.

That was before the oil embargos, and Nixon's response to them by getting the fed to keep interest rates low even as costs increased so unemployment would rise and hurt his reelection.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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I'm not that familiar with the effect of interest rates, but I do know that there is a constant class war of the wealthy against the workers. Currently the wealthy are far too empowered and will do whatever it takes to drive workers into poverty. Perhaps a massive interest rate hike would help.

Back in the 60s & 70s we had a huge middle class, and a large amount of wealthy people. The wealth gap wasn't that great. Ultimately, closing the wealth gap isn't a war to end wealth - just the opposite - it will create many, many more wealthy people., but less ridiculously wealthy people.

So how do you propose we do that, by having Bill Gates and Elon Musk write checks to every American?

If you tax the wealthy, all you do is give more money to government. As history shows, they'll just waste it, especially if Democrats are running the show.

This discussion reminds me of Rush Limbaugh talking about when he was a child. When he didn't finish his dinner, his mother always told him there are children starving in China. After she said that one too many times, he replied by asking his mother if he finished his dinner, how would that help one starving Chinese child?

Tax the wealthy all you like, but you or I will never see one dime of it. All you'll really do is sate your hatred of the wealthy, and possibly crash the economy.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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I want lower prices, and I oppose efforts by either party to negate that. We don't have enough workers to even do the jobs we have now

With nearly 60 million Americans on welfare, why would that surprise you? Maybe the solution to our labor problem is to get people off these programs and get a job instead.

 

busybee01

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The drop in fuel prices is due to the drop in demand. Dumbfuck democrats do not understand simple supply and demand economics... And now Biden is taking a victory lap for placing US Citizens in a position to reduce using resources and claiming he reduced the price., when it has nothing to do with Biden and his dumbfuck advisors... Biden is a fucktard as are democrats who think this is good..

Prices are also dropping because there has been a small increase in supplies as well. Biden has done nothing to impede oil wells from re-opening. The thing is oil prices are not likely to go too low. OPEC and oil companies will cut production to keep that from happening again.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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