At what point will Americans stop buying stuff?

[struth]

What "tax penalty for hiring" are you referring to?

Whatever it is, I'm sure that the employers would take it home rather than passing it on to employees.

when someone employees someone they pay half their payroll taxes

not sure how they’d take that home…they owe it to the fed

 

[g5000]

I spent my tax rebate on a vacation in Canada.

My wife and daughter are vacationing in Newfoundland as we speak.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, taxing the wealthy gives them incentive to reinvest their profits in their businesses which will create jobs and increase workers pay. They will have to take higher risks to make as much money.

This isn't new. It was all done before in the 1950s & 1960s. It works.

If your boss cut your pay by 20%, would that make you want to spend more money or spend less? Your argument makes zero sense.

If you tax businesses at 0%, the government takes in 0 dollars. If you tax businesses at 100%, the government would still take in 0 dollars because who would be stupid enough to take risks and create wealth?

 

[initforme]

There is no labor shortage. That is fake news. Labor has nothing to do with a recession.

 

[Richard-H]

If your boss cut your pay by 20%, would that make you want to spend more money or spend less? Your argument makes zero sense.

If you tax businesses at 0%, the government takes in 0 dollars. If you tax businesses at 100%, the government would still take in 0 dollars because who would be stupid enough to take risks and create wealth?

If my boss cuts my pay he will no longer be my boss.

Someplace between 0% and 100% works.

 

[Richard-H]

There is no labor shortage. That is fake news. Labor has nothing to do with a recession.

There is no recession.

 

[Ralph Norton]

There is no recession.

Statements like that is why no one takes you seriously.

 

[Richard-H]

Statements like that is why no one takes you seriously.

Get yourself an education, dumbass:

'Absolutely sure' US economy is not in recession, economist says | CNN Business

The American economy is losing steam and is vulnerable to sinking into a recession but it's not in one yet, according to Moody's Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi.

www.cnn.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If my boss cuts my pay he will no longer be my boss.

Someplace between 0% and 100% works.

You don't think it works the same way with business? At some point it's not worth staying open any longer. Opening up and running a business involves a lot of risk. Many small businesses the owner works over 60 hours a week. Larger businesses rely on investors so they sell stock and have to keep that profit margin high enough to attract and keep those investors. I've never used my IRA yet, but until I do I want to make sure my money is invested in companies that provide reasonable dividends. After all, it's my money we're talking about over here.

 

[whitehall]

What do we do when "Fed" policy makers whine that they are unable to interpret confusing data related to the economy? Fire the A-holes? Wait for sanity to prevail when republicans take over in November?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I want lower prices, and I oppose efforts by either party to negate that. We don't have enough workers to even do the jobs we have now

Really? Why is the labor participation rate so low?

My wife and I retired. Our house is not selling because the Fed raised rates. I lost $5K in my retirement funds thank to the stock market tanking. How is that a good thing? Thank you, Joe!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Really? Why is the labor participation rate so low?

My wife and I retired. Our house is not selling because the Fed raised rates. I lost $5K in my retirement funds thank to the stock market tanking. How is that a good thing? Thank you, Joe!

Consider yourself lucky.

My father and cousin stopped over two weeks ago. We get together every couple of weeks since they learned I have stage 4 cancer and nobody really knows how long I have. In any case my father (who turned Democrat) tried to defend Dementia.

I told my father he always looked out for me and my sister even as adults. He's very generous on our birthdays and Christmas. At times he would bring over cash because he's afraid if something happens, the nursing home will take all his money. I told him how much we appreciate it, even though we really don't need any help. But I said Dad, because of the way you and millions like you voted, I lost 30K in my IRA. Assuming I would have made 30K if Trump were still in office all this time, I lost 60K because he didn't like Trump's mean Tweets. My sister made much more money than I did, and I'm sure she lost six figures.

He just stared out into space for several seconds and didn't respond.

I wish people started voting on what's best for the country instead of themselves. If we ever started doing that, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in today.

 

[Richard-H]

You don't think it works the same way with business? At some point it's not worth staying open any longer. Opening up and running a business involves a lot of risk. Many small businesses the owner works over 60 hours a week. Larger businesses rely on investors so they sell stock and have to keep that profit margin high enough to attract and keep those investors. I've never used my IRA yet, but until I do I want to make sure my money is invested in companies that provide reasonable dividends. After all, it's my money we're talking about over here.

The American people have had more than enough of your crocodile tears!

Business profits have been enormous since the 1980s. Businesses can easily afford to raise wages and pay higher taxes.

Too bad if they can't afford a new Lexus this year.

There is no inalienable to Constitutional right to do business. If a business can't survive while paying descent wages and paying their fair share of taxes then they can close down and the owners can go work at McDonalds.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The American people have had more than enough of your crocodile tears!

Business profits have been enormous since the 1980s. Businesses can easily afford to raise wages and pay higher taxes.

Too bad if they can't afford a new Lexus this year.

There is no inalienable to Constitutional right to do business. If a business can't survive while paying descent wages and paying their fair share of taxes then they can close down and the owners can go work at McDonalds.

And what if the company you work for did that?

I don't know why this is so difficult for you on the left to understand. You don't want to make any effort to better yourself. You don't want to invest in yourself to learn a trade. You cry about money all the time, and yet, it's up to the business owner to pay you more money than you're worth? So where is that in the Constitution?

When I got out of school I got a minimum wage job. I left there for another minimum wage job, then another. I lived with my parents because I couldn't afford to have my own apartment, even if I found a roommate. It wasn't until I landed a job that paid better money before I could move out. Even then the only way I could afford an apartment is because it was a 6 day a week job and I did okay with some overtime.

Point being, I'm 62 years old now, and nothing has changed since I was a young man. There were always terrible paying jobs. There were better paying jobs. There were great paying jobs. The only difference between today and the later 70's is that nobody will pay you a superior wage to do monkey work today like sweeping floors or stocking shelves. When we decided that what we were making was not enough, we didn't blame the employers, we blamed ourselves and did something about it.

Another difference is that everybody wants a great paying job without doing any hard physical labor. The Post Office can't even find people to work today because it's hard physical work. When I was younger, you just about had to know somebody to get into a place like the post office. Today they'll hire just about anybody that's willing to work.

 

[Richard-H]

And what if the company you work for did that?

I don't know why this is so difficult for you on the left to understand. You don't want to make any effort to better yourself. You don't want to invest in yourself to learn a trade. You cry about money all the time, and yet, it's up to the business owner to pay you more money than you're worth? So where is that in the Constitution?

When I got out of school I got a minimum wage job. I left there for another minimum wage job, then another. I lived with my parents because I couldn't afford to have my own apartment, even if I found a roommate. It wasn't until I landed a job that paid better money before I could move out. Even then the only way I could afford an apartment is because it was a 6 day a week job and I did okay with some overtime.

Point being, I'm 62 years old now, and nothing has changed since I was a young man. There were always terrible paying jobs. There were better paying jobs. There were great paying jobs. The only difference between today and the later 70's is that nobody will pay you a superior wage to do monkey work today like sweeping floors or stocking shelves. When we decided that what we were making was not enough, we didn't blame the employers, we blamed ourselves and did something about it.

Another difference is that everybody wants a great paying job without doing any hard physical labor. The Post Office can't even find people to work today because it's hard physical work. When I was younger, you just about had to know somebody to get into a place like the post office. Today they'll hire just about anybody that's willing to work.

Nobody is asking anyone to pay an employee more than they are worth. What we want is for employees to get paid on par with the value of their productivity. Everyone knows that employers will only hire people if it's profitable for them, so by definition employees NEVER get paid what they are truly worth.

They system people like you use is to pay as little as you possible can regardless of the true value of the employees. The market value' of an employee is determined by the most desperate people willing to take the lowest pay. That means that employers want to pay as little as possible - the more desperate people are the lower the wages that they will accept, and the lower their wages the more desperate they are. It's a vicious downward whirlpool created by employers.

There is no actual relationship between someone 'bettering' themselves and the true value of their labor. The fact is that many of the most vital & most valuable jobs are done by the lowest paid workers. This pandemic has shown that their are millions of low paid employees that were considered 'essential' - that means that their work has an extremely high value.

Everything has changed since the 1970s. The cost of housing especially. By todays wages, you'd still be living with you parents.

 

[Ralph Norton]

Get yourself an education, dumbass:

'Absolutely sure' US economy is not in recession, economist says | CNN Business

The American economy is losing steam and is vulnerable to sinking into a recession but it's not in one yet, according to Moody's Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi.

www.cnn.com

Oh, well, if Mark Zandi says there's no recession then I stand corrected.
Who cares that we have had 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP - the long accepted definition of recession.
After all, it's Mark fucking Zandi - the greatest economist the world has ever seen..

 

[Richard-H]

Oh, well, if Mark Zandi says there's no recession then I stand corrected.
Who cares that we have had 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP - the long accepted definition of recession.
After all, it's Mark fucking Zandi - the greatest economist the world has ever seen..

You may stick with your schoolboy definition of recession if you want, but everyone knows that there are plenty of positive economic indicators - far more than negative. Most economists recognize that the reduced GDP is due to overstocking and is in this case, meaningless.

When businesses start shutting down and tens of thousands lose their jobs, the rest of us will believe that there's a recession.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You may stick with your schoolboy definition of recession if you want, but everyone knows that there are plenty of positive economic indicators - far more than negative. Most economists recognize that the reduced GDP is due to overstocking and is in this case, meaningless.

When businesses start shutting down and tens of thousands lose their jobs, the rest of us will believe that there's a recession.

In just about any recession that's what follows. It's a lagging indicator that's going to be coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

 

[Ralph Norton]

You may stick with your schoolboy definition of recession if you want, but everyone knows that there are plenty of positive economic indicators - far more than negative. Most economists recognize that the reduced GDP is due to overstocking and is in this case, meaningless.

When businesses start shutting down and tens of thousands lose their jobs, the rest of us will believe that there's a recession.

Schoolboy eh?
"Well, a recession is two quarters in a row of negative growth."
President Bill Clinton - Dec. 2000

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nobody is asking anyone to pay an employee more than they are worth. What we want is for employees to get paid on par with the value of their productivity. Everyone knows that employers will only hire people if it's profitable for them, so by definition employees NEVER get paid what they are truly worth.

They system people like you use is to pay as little as you possible can regardless of the true value of the employees. The market value' of an employee is determined by the most desperate people willing to take the lowest pay. That means that employers want to pay as little as possible - the more desperate people are the lower the wages that they will accept, and the lower their wages the more desperate they are. It's a vicious downward whirlpool created by employers.

There is no actual relationship between someone 'bettering' themselves and the true value of their labor. The fact is that many of the most vital & most valuable jobs are done by the lowest paid workers. This pandemic has shown that their are millions of low paid employees that were considered 'essential' - that means that their work has an extremely high value.

Everything has changed since the 1970s. The cost of housing especially. By todays wages, you'd still be living with you parents.

No I wouldn't because like I did earlier in my life, I did something about it. When I was unsatisfied with the money I was making, I simply made myself worth more to potential employers.

When I landed that better paying job I spoke of earlier, it was driving a van. When I left there, similar work paid about the same because just about anybody with a drivers license can drive a van. So I got my CDL Class B license which enabled me to take truck driving jobs. After a few years of that, I learned how to drive a tractor-trailer and upgraded my license to a Class A. I made a reasonable living and retired as a tractor-trailer driver.

It wasn't easy, but I didn't sit home and cry that employers should pay me great money to do a job just about anybody could do. I went into a field to do a job a lot of people cant or won't do. The more people that can do your job, the less you are worth. So find a line of work that's in demand because a lot of people can't do that job.

And if you want a job that pays you based on your productivity, that's what piece work jobs are all about. If you want to make money based on how well your company is doing, you get a job that has profit sharing as a benefit. If you feel the company is successful but doesn't offer profit sharing, you can buy stock in that company like other investors. Some companies even offer discounts to their employees that invest in the company. Then you can make money right along with them.