Zone1 Another question to ponder

[Woodznutz]

Hes undercover

He passed the torch to Jesus, who passed it to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hafar1014]

The devil 'appeared' as the serpent in Genesis. The sin of Adam and Eve was a reenactment of the rebellion of the angels, with the same result, the loss of Eden and an impending death sentence.

False the serpent is an animal from Hebrew folklore. The only one with the power of speech and metaphor for guile. Its comes form an oral tradition. There can be no devil or hell in any Jewish thinking.

Gods moral teaching of man cant be a sin because its Gods plan that they eat the fruit all along. You may have noticed they never died. The loss of Eden means the loss of childhood when morals and wisdom are combined with free will they are no longer children. Eden is the metaphor for childhood. You know what we call that. Evolution

 

[BreezeWood]

Why did god make a 600 year old man build the ark, instead of just popping one into existence, like he did everything else?
I get its about testing loyalty and obedience and such, or so I have seen explained. But then another question arises.
If god is omniscient, he didnt need to test Noah. He would have already known.

they, the heavens did not require an ark - the event was over within days ...

the parable's embellishments become more important to divert opinion in the desert bibles than the actual heavenly goal to triumph over evil as the reason for the few allowed to survive to continue in their ways -

than the vast majority deceivingly maintaining the opposite objective evil and laziness that eventually was to consume humanity the heavens chose to divert giving humanity one last chance for spiritual life in the everlasting.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Of course thats because you created an idol. Its an interesting thought that God would take on human form and walk quietly among us observing but not interfering. He would look like this George Burns in Oh God
View attachment 1233913

Hafar, You either have very little Knowledge of The Scriptures or You choose to Ignore those that Clash with Your Belief System.

Who was Melchizedek?

 

[Woodznutz]

False the serpent is an animal from Hebrew folklore. The only one with the power of speech and metaphor for guile. Its comes form an oral tradition. There can be no devil or hell in any Jewish thinking.

Gods moral teaching of man cant be a sin because its Gods plan that they eat the fruit all along. You may have noticed they never died. The loss of Eden means the loss of childhood when morals and wisdom are combined with free will they are no longer children. Eden is the metaphor for childhood. You know what we call that. Evolution

The serpent was a literary construct, likening the whisper of the enchanter/deceiver to the hiss of a snake. Thus Lucifer/
Satan (one who opposes God) became a 'serpent', figuratively. It gets worse as Eve is cast as the human personification of Lucifer/Satan and must endure physical curses that a spirit being cannot suffer; childbirth, eating dirt, being subject to her husband.

 

[Hafar1014]

That may be Calvinist belief, but it is not the belief of over 97% of all other Christian denominations. In Catholic/Orthodox and many other Christian denominations, baptism tells of the path we are taking: Rather than following the ways of the world, we will follow the ways of the Kingdom of God. As best we can, we will avoid worldly temptations to follow the holy ways of God.

No one is born evil. We are born with a human nature with the propensity of wanting to do things "My way" instead of learning to do things God's way, to become obedient to the ways of God.

Then you believe that at all times every human who ever lived was obedient to the ways of God, that there is only Godly nature, no human nature. Christians believe we start with human nature and strive to learn to follow the nature of God.

Jesus' life was an illustration for us, that it is possible for humans to be obedient to the will, the ways of God--even if it means your death. Death cannot triumph over life, we will be resurrected into new life. Jesus' entire life was devoted to teaching sins are forgiven, the only sin offering needed is obedience. Just as disobedience was introduced in the Garden, and effected mankind; one man's obedience and perfect sacrifice (his own life) is also be for all of mankind. It has had great effect on mine and many others

Basic Christian dogma is rooted and centered on/with Genesis.

I certainly don't understand your version of it. Your version of Christianity is so far off in left field, we are not even in the same ballpark.

I understand the Crusades and the Inquisition and todays anti semitism all from Christians.
Originsl sin means all of mankind sinned
Hell is the punishment for not beliveing
Jesus is an idol
Satan is the god of hell dualism polytheism
Christianity is obsessed with sin and control.

Judiasm is based on freedom.

 

[BreezeWood]

Judiasm is based on freedom.

not in the liest ...

there are no commandments from the heavens, madeup by an autocrat moses and judaism.

 

[Hafar1014]

That's an interesting take on the subject.

Its not a take thats how the Orthodox rabbis who study the Torah define it. There can be no devil in Jewish thinking. He is the tempter and instigator and was punished first. He is the symbol for guile. A smart ass trouble maker. Satan in Hebrew means a liar false accuser we would call that perjury.

 

[Hafar1014]

We don't need to inherit "original sin" to be sinners. We do that all by ourselves.

God stated in Genesis the sin of one cannot be extended to others. What sin has baby comitted?

 

[Hafar1014]

He passed the torch to Jesus, who passed it to the Holy Spirit.

Polytheism

 

[Woodznutz]

God stated in Genesis the sin of one cannot be extended to others. What sin has baby comitted?

None. I didn't know evil until I was about five. It was at that time that I began to sin. Our nature is receptive to sinful influences as well as our own desires. That said I was introduced to Jesus at about the age of three, so I had some conflicts early on. Sin pretty much ruled my life until I was in my thirties. At 85 I'm pretty much over that, however.

 

[Hafar1014]

None. I didn't know evil until I was about five. It was at that time that I began to sin.

5 year olds cant sin they make mistakes. A 5 year old who intentionally sins hurts others has a serious personality disorder. Do you have guilt and shame issues? When a child makes a mistake the best way to deal with it is encourage the right behavior, set an example.

 

[Woodznutz]

5 year olds cant sin they make mistakes. A 5 year old who intentionally sins hurts others has a serious personality disorder. Do you have guilt and shame issues? When a child makes a mistake the best way to deal with it is encourage the right behavior, set an example.

When I was five (or maybe six) I stole a keychain from a drugstore where I would buy penny candy after school. I felt so guilty about it that I threw it away before walking a block from the store. I was too ashamed to return it.

My upbringing didn't include any moral instruction as it is generally understood. However, I did pick it up as I went along. That said the knowledge of good and evil is intrinsic in man, so no one is without some awareness of morality.

 

[Hafar1014]

George is wonderful metaphor for God. Who would you have the Rock

I f Jesus came today we would have Christians wearing electric chairs around their necks or a hangman's noose. Now theres a great symbol fir a god of love and peace... George Carlin

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Its not a take thats how the Orthodox rabbis who study the Torah define it. There can be no devil in Jewish thinking. He is the tempter and instigator and was punished first. He is the symbol for guile. A smart ass trouble maker. Satan in Hebrew means a liar false accuser we would call that perjury.

I'm Thinking that Your Mindset is very similar to the Rulers of The "House of Yudah" before the "Jews" were conquered by Babylon, & the 1st Temple was Destroyed.

 

[Woodznutz]

I f Jesus came today we would have Christians wearing electric chairs around their necks or a hangman's noose. Now theres a great symbol fir a god of love and peace

We would receive him joyfully as savior and king.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Why did god make a 600 year old man build the ark, instead of just popping one into existence, like he did everything else?
I get its about testing loyalty and obedience and such, or so I have seen explained. But then another question arises.
If god is omniscient, he didnt need to test Noah. He would have already known.

I have not read thru the thread to know if this has already been said or not but......

Noah didn't just start building a boat that took 600 years to complete as a test from God.....he had also been instructed to warn the people, that if they didn't turn from their evil ways a flood would come. The test wasn't for Noah, but the people. In God's patience, He gave them plenty of time and they still wouldn't listen. The boat itself was a visual to reinforce the warnings.


And to your questions of why God didn't just pop one into existence. The same could be said of......

1. Why it took 40 years for Moses to lead the Israelites to the Promise Land, when it really was an 11 day trip?
2. Why did God send Gideon with only 300 men to fight the Midianites that were 135,000 strong?
3. Why send a mere boy (David) with a sling and a stone to fight Goliath the giant who was a skilled warrior?
4. Why did Jesus (God in flesh) choose the 'worst' society had to offer as His disciples and strongest supporters??

and thousands of other similar stories???


Because when God makes a statement, He goes big and never goes home. Much of those events, were not just for those at that time, but also were 'big enough' to be recorded for all future generations to learn from.

IOW, if any of that history had not been as extraordinary as it was and/or actually made sense to the human mind.......then it wouldn't have been recorded, nor would it have been remembered for thousands of years. That's how you make a lasting impact statement.

 

[Hafar1014]

We would receive him joyfully as savior and king.

We would deport him back to Mexico

 

[Woodznutz]

We would deport him back to Mexico

I think you would crucify him, if you could.

 

[SweetSue92]

Why did god make a 600 year old man build the ark, instead of just popping one into existence, like he did everything else?
I get its about testing loyalty and obedience and such, or so I have seen explained. But then another question arises.
If god is omniscient, he didnt need to test Noah. He would have already known.

Sure He knew. The test was more for Noah and us than for God.