Another person claiming animals are the same as people

[buttercup]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

 

[Norman]

Leftists are animals, is this true?

 

[Levant]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

 

[buttercup]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

Your accusatory combativeness speaks volumes.

You are also completely ignoring the undeniable FACT that God's original design and eternal plan - which we can see in the pre-fall world and in the future world - does not include flesh-eating. It's the opposite of that, it's peace and harmony among humans and animals. THAT was God's intent and God's perfect will.

In other words, the beginning was vegetarian and the future is vegetarian. Everything in between, in this current corrupt age, is a result of SIN in this fallen world.

I don't see how that can be denied. If you ignore it or deny it, then you're the one being intellectually dishonest. Or letting your belly be your god.

So it really comes down to whether we as Christians should honor God's true intent and perfect will.... or go with what God allows in this temporary fallen world?

 

[Moonglow]

When cherry sauce is used.

Meat is murder. . . .


Unless, . . .


Well, we all know when it isn't.

Right?

 

[Moonglow]

Meat is murder. . . .


Unless, . . .


Well, we all know when it isn't.

Right?

Are they suggesting that humans be food animals? The left would do that.

I am glad you finally graduated college to learn the political philosophies of aboriginal tribes of head hunters and cannibilist. What a gem you are.

 

[Levant]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

Your accusatory combativeness speaks volumes.

You are also completely ignoring the undeniable FACT that God's original design and eternal plan - which we can see in the pre-fall world and in the future world - does not include flesh-eating. It's the opposite of that, it's peace and harmony among humans and animals. THAT was God's intent and God's perfect will.

In other words, the beginning was vegetarian and the future is vegetarian. Everything in between, in this current corrupt age, is a result of SIN in this fallen world.

I don't see how that can be denied. If you ignore it or deny it, then you're the one being intellectually dishonest. Or letting your belly be your god.

So it really comes down to whether we as Christians should honor God's true intent and perfect will.... or go with what God allows in this temporary fallen world?

Do as Jesus did. What would Jesus do? You're the one denying the faith and calling Jesus a sinner. You are the one pretending to know more of God's will than did Jesus Himself. Your arrogance is absolutely beyond belief. Should we take the Word according to the Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or according to the apostate, Lily? You're amazingly sanctimonious; beyond sanctimonious, even.

 

[buttercup]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

Your accusatory combativeness speaks volumes.

You are also completely ignoring the undeniable FACT that God's original design and eternal plan - which we can see in the pre-fall world and in the future world - does not include flesh-eating. It's the opposite of that, it's peace and harmony among humans and animals. THAT was God's intent and God's perfect will.

In other words, the beginning was vegetarian and the future is vegetarian. Everything in between, in this current corrupt age, is a result of SIN in this fallen world.

I don't see how that can be denied. If you ignore it or deny it, then you're the one being intellectually dishonest. Or letting your belly be your god.

So it really comes down to whether we as Christians should honor God's true intent and perfect will.... or go with what God allows in this temporary fallen world?

Do as Jesus did. What would Jesus do? You're the one denying the faith and calling Jesus a sinner. You are the one pretending to know more of God's will than did Jesus Himself. Your arrogance is absolutely beyond belief. Should we take the Word according to the Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or according to the apostate, Lily? You're amazingly sanctimonious; beyond sanctimonious, even.

Your replies are only ad hominems and nasty accusations. Instead of supporting your position, you try make it all about me. That's a big fail of Debating 101. And now, in addition to your hateful accusations, you're adding dishonesty. I never said Jesus was a sinner. I believe just the opposite.

You continue to ignore nearly everything I said, you didn't address anything. So if all you have is hate and nastiness, then it's obvious to me that you're not interested in a real discussion, or getting to the actual truth.

If all you have is hate, argue with someone else. I am more interested in people who are civil and into having an actual discussion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

Your accusatory combativeness speaks volumes.

You are also completely ignoring the undeniable FACT that God's original design and eternal plan - which we can see in the pre-fall world and in the future world - does not include flesh-eating. It's the opposite of that, it's peace and harmony among humans and animals. THAT was God's intent and God's perfect will.

In other words, the beginning was vegetarian and the future is vegetarian. Everything in between, in this current corrupt age, is a result of SIN in this fallen world.

I don't see how that can be denied. If you ignore it or deny it, then you're the one being intellectually dishonest. Or letting your belly be your god.

So it really comes down to whether we as Christians should honor God's true intent and perfect will.... or go with what God allows in this temporary fallen world?

Do as Jesus did. What would Jesus do? You're the one denying the faith and calling Jesus a sinner. You are the one pretending to know more of God's will than did Jesus Himself. Your arrogance is absolutely beyond belief. Should we take the Word according to the Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or according to the apostate, Lily? You're amazingly sanctimonious; beyond sanctimonious, even.

Your replies are only ad hominems and nasty accusations. Instead of supporting your position, you try make it all about me. That's a big fail of Debating 101. And now, in addition to your hateful accusations, you're adding dishonesty. I never said Jesus was a sinner. I believe just the opposite.

You continue to ignore nearly everything I said, you didn't address anything. So if all you have is hate and nastiness, then it's obvious to me that you're not interested in a real discussion, or getting to the actual truth.

If all you have is hate, argue with someone else. I am more interested in people who are civil and into having an actual discussion.

You claimed that the bible was wrong. That it had fictitious statements in it about Jesus eating fish. If that isn't wrong then what is prey tell?

 

[Levant]

Your replies are only ad hominems and nasty accusations. Instead of supporting your position, you try make it all about me. That's a big fail of Debating 101. And now, in addition to your hateful accusations, you're adding dishonesty. I never said Jesus was a sinner. I believe just the opposite.

You continue to ignore nearly everything I said, you didn't address anything. So if all you have is hate and nastiness, then it's obvious to me that you're not interested in a real discussion, or getting to the actual truth.

If all you have is hate, argue with someone else. I am more interested in people who are civil and into having an actual discussion.

I have Jesus. What do you have? Your self-proclaimed superior-to-Jesus' knowledge of God's will?

 

[buttercup]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

Your accusatory combativeness speaks volumes.

You are also completely ignoring the undeniable FACT that God's original design and eternal plan - which we can see in the pre-fall world and in the future world - does not include flesh-eating. It's the opposite of that, it's peace and harmony among humans and animals. THAT was God's intent and God's perfect will.

In other words, the beginning was vegetarian and the future is vegetarian. Everything in between, in this current corrupt age, is a result of SIN in this fallen world.

I don't see how that can be denied. If you ignore it or deny it, then you're the one being intellectually dishonest. Or letting your belly be your god.

So it really comes down to whether we as Christians should honor God's true intent and perfect will.... or go with what God allows in this temporary fallen world?

Do as Jesus did. What would Jesus do? You're the one denying the faith and calling Jesus a sinner. You are the one pretending to know more of God's will than did Jesus Himself. Your arrogance is absolutely beyond belief. Should we take the Word according to the Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or according to the apostate, Lily? You're amazingly sanctimonious; beyond sanctimonious, even.

Your replies are only ad hominems and nasty accusations. Instead of supporting your position, you try make it all about me. That's a big fail of Debating 101. And now, in addition to your hateful accusations, you're adding dishonesty. I never said Jesus was a sinner. I believe just the opposite.

You continue to ignore nearly everything I said, you didn't address anything. So if all you have is hate and nastiness, then it's obvious to me that you're not interested in a real discussion, or getting to the actual truth.

If all you have is hate, argue with someone else. I am more interested in people who are civil and into having an actual discussion.

You claimed that the bible was wrong. That it had fictitious statements in it about Jesus eating fish. If that isn't wrong then what is prey tell?

There is only one scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus ate flesh. All I said was that it's debatable, I didn't elaborate on that. I did talk about another passage, the one about Jesus multiplying the loaves for the 5000. I stated that when Jesus relayed that story, He did not say anything about fish. Neither did some of the early church fathers.

But all of that aside, both you and the other guy have been ignoring my main point. My main point is not about this temporary fallen world, but about God's true intent and perfect will, which we can see when you look the BIG picture. As I said before, the beginning was vegetarian and the future will go back to how it was in the beginning, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning.

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

 

[Levant]

There is only one scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus ate flesh. All I said was that it's debatable, I didn't elaborate on that. I did talk about another passage, the one about Jesus multiplying the loaves for the 5000. I stated that when Jesus relayed that story, He did not say anything about fish. Neither did some of the early church fathers.

But all of that aside, both you and the other guy have been ignoring my main point. My main point is not about this temporary fallen world, but about God's true intent and perfect will, which we can see when you look the BIG picture. As I said before, the beginning was vegetarian and the future will go back to how it was in the beginning, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning.

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

Your main point is not at all what you're pretending it is: a temporary fallen world. Your main point, the point you keep insisting on, is that you know more of the will of God for the world than did Jesus himself, and that you know more about the actual life of Jesus than did all four of the Apostles who wrote the Gospels in the New Testament. You're a vegan who kills animals to eat every day of your life but you're so shallow that you think not killing cuddly, furry, rabbits makes you better than everyone else. You're a sanctimonious twit.

 

[Levant]

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

No. I think that Christians should follow the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ and that they should not blaspheme by claiming that He sinned or that he or the Apostles lied. You're living proof of what happens to the brain when people don't get enough animal fat in their diets.

 

[esalla]

Just because you can't understand that God created the world one way and then the world changed doesn't mean that your horrible misconception that God loves violence and suffering and predatory behavior is correct.

If God changed the world, after he did so did he come to you and ask you to change it back? Or ask you for advice on whether he should change it back? If he changed animals and humans, it doesn't matter. We are what we are now - and God made us what we are. You're pretty presumptuous to tell God he was wrong to change the world. I've seen a lot of self-righteousness in my time but yours takes the cake.

Wow, another person who puts words in people's mouths. I never said that GOD changed the world to the way it is now, which implies that is what God wants. I simply said the world changed. Don't add to my words.

I don't know if you're a Christian or what, but God's intent and perfect will is CLEAR.

We can know God's perfect will by looking at both the pre-fall world, and how the world will be once again one day, according to the bible, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning and WE messed up.

The wolf will live with the lamb,​

and the leopard will lie down with the goat.​

The calf, the young lion, and the fatling will be together,​

and a child will lead them.​

​

The cow and the bear will graze,​

their young ones will lie down together,​

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.​

​

An infant will play beside the cobra’s pit,​

and a toddler will put his hand into a snake’s den.​

​

None will harm or destroy another​

on My entire holy mountain,​

for the land will be as full​

of the knowledge of the Lord​

as the sea is filled with water.​

​

Isaiah 11:6-9​

If the world changed, when, how, and by whom? Any biblical reference to back it up?

Yes, I am a Christian. But, unlike you, I don't assume to have the power of God to bring the changes prophesied for the last days. Do you intend to keep the bear from eating the cow? Do you see any lions eating straw? No, of course not. You've picked the part that makes you feel good and eases your guilt and think you're changing the world.

I don't think you understand my position, at least not fully, and that is fine, I don't expect you to because you probably haven't read what I've posted on this topic before, or read my blog.

I don't assume to have the power to bring changes. I'm not trying to force anyone to change. People have free will.

But I have studied this topic, and I have a put a ton of thought into it, and I have concluded certain things, that I share, with whoever will listen. I usually share it on my blog or in videos. Sometimes here, but not too often, just when the topic comes up.

It sounds like you're saying, "That may be the future but we don't have to do that now." Well, I hope you would agree that as Christians, we should aim for God's perfect will, as opposed to the current temporary ways of this fallen world.

Jesus said we should WANT God's kingdom to come and God's will to be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

So I want to honor God's original intent when it comes to the relationship between humans and animals. Actually, I do it for a NUMBER of reasons.

From a biblical perspective that is our future anyway, so why fight it? Why not start now?

I think there are tons of good, valid reasons why Christians should honor God's original intent and perfect will. The only reasons I see on the other side are: tradition / habit / our own personal desire.

But at the end of the day, you have a choice. At least in this fallen world and this corrupt age.

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

God clearly wanted flesh to be eaten. Do you believe in God

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Jesus ate fish. End of argument unless you want to argue that Jesus was a sinner.

Debatable. But I'm not going to get into that on this thread. Not worth it, with people whose minds are stubbornly made up on this entire topic of flesh eating.

Of course you're not going to get into it because it completely destroys your argument.

Luke 24:41-43

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He also served fish to thousands and filled the nets of fishermen so the fish could be eaten.

No it doesn't. Always dig deeper. There is historical evidence that James, the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian. And there's also evidence that a number of the disciples were vegetarian. So, in light of that, it would be very odd if Jesus wasn't, since the student is not greater than the Master.

Also, Jesus had a heart for God's ORIGINAL design, before the world got corrupted. So for that and for numerous other reasons, many people believe that Jesus was a vegetarian.

When Jesus Himself relayed the story about multiplying the loaves, he did not mention fish at all. (Matthew 16:8-10) Interesting, huh? Also, at least one of the early church fathers (Irenaeus) who wrote about that story made no mention of fish. So that could suggest that the inclusion of fish was a later interpolation.

One thing that is undeniable, which you seem to be strangely against... is that God's original intent and perfect will - which we can see in the PRE-FALL world as well as in the future when God restores the peaceful world He created in the beginning does not include killing and flesh-eating.

No, many people do not believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they believe he had a heart for God's design. They believe Jesus was a vegetarian because they don't believe in the gospels and it serves their personal choices to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian. I know a lot of vegetarians. Pre-Wuhan, I often go to lunch with vegetarian friends. Meat eaters and vegetarians mix in the world - then and now. What you're saying is that you don't believe the words in the New Testament that Jesus fed fish to thousands and that he ate fish. He said that anything we put into our body doesn't defile us but, instead, it is what comes out that defiles us..

Your holier-than-thou arguments are intellectually dishonest. You're a false prophet, putting words into the mouth of the Lord and the gospels that aren't there.

Your accusatory combativeness speaks volumes.

You are also completely ignoring the undeniable FACT that God's original design and eternal plan - which we can see in the pre-fall world and in the future world - does not include flesh-eating. It's the opposite of that, it's peace and harmony among humans and animals. THAT was God's intent and God's perfect will.

In other words, the beginning was vegetarian and the future is vegetarian. Everything in between, in this current corrupt age, is a result of SIN in this fallen world.

I don't see how that can be denied. If you ignore it or deny it, then you're the one being intellectually dishonest. Or letting your belly be your god.

So it really comes down to whether we as Christians should honor God's true intent and perfect will.... or go with what God allows in this temporary fallen world?

Do as Jesus did. What would Jesus do? You're the one denying the faith and calling Jesus a sinner. You are the one pretending to know more of God's will than did Jesus Himself. Your arrogance is absolutely beyond belief. Should we take the Word according to the Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or according to the apostate, Lily? You're amazingly sanctimonious; beyond sanctimonious, even.

Your replies are only ad hominems and nasty accusations. Instead of supporting your position, you try make it all about me. That's a big fail of Debating 101. And now, in addition to your hateful accusations, you're adding dishonesty. I never said Jesus was a sinner. I believe just the opposite.

You continue to ignore nearly everything I said, you didn't address anything. So if all you have is hate and nastiness, then it's obvious to me that you're not interested in a real discussion, or getting to the actual truth.

If all you have is hate, argue with someone else. I am more interested in people who are civil and into having an actual discussion.

You claimed that the bible was wrong. That it had fictitious statements in it about Jesus eating fish. If that isn't wrong then what is prey tell?

There is only one scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus ate flesh. All I said was that it's debatable, I didn't elaborate on that. I did talk about another passage, the one about Jesus multiplying the loaves for the 5000. I stated that when Jesus relayed that story, He did not say anything about fish. Neither did some of the early church fathers.

But all of that aside, both you and the other guy have been ignoring my main point. My main point is not about this temporary fallen world, but about God's true intent and perfect will, which we can see when you look the BIG picture. As I said before, the beginning was vegetarian and the future will go back to how it was in the beginning, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning.

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

You are claiming that the Bible is wrong, how very Christian of you. I believe man is made to eat meat and science supports that and nothing in the bible casts doubt on that.

 

[buttercup]

There is only one scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus ate flesh. All I said was that it's debatable, I didn't elaborate on that. I did talk about another passage, the one about Jesus multiplying the loaves for the 5000. I stated that when Jesus relayed that story, He did not say anything about fish. Neither did some of the early church fathers.

But all of that aside, both you and the other guy have been ignoring my main point. My main point is not about this temporary fallen world, but about God's true intent and perfect will, which we can see when you look the BIG picture. As I said before, the beginning was vegetarian and the future will go back to how it was in the beginning, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning.

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

Your main point is not at all what you're pretending it is: a temporary fallen world. Your main point, the point you keep insisting on, is that you know more of the will of God for the world than did Jesus himself, and that you know more about the actual life of Jesus than did all four of the Apostles who wrote the Gospels in the New Testament. You're a vegan who kills animals to eat every day of your life but you're so shallow that you think not killing cuddly, furry, rabbits makes you better than everyone else. You're a sanctimonious twit.

Absolutely false. Not even meat-eating scholars deny that the beginning was vegetarian, and that in the future, according to prophetic scriptures ("the wolf will lay with the lamb") there will be a return to the peace and harmony that existed in the beginning.

We also know from numerous scriptures that in heaven, there is no suffering, exploitation, needless killing and death.

It doesn't take anyone special to understand God's perfect will in regard to how creation should interact with eachother. All we have to do is look at heaven.

For you to deny that is what is arrogant, selfish and borderline blasphemous.

 

[esalla]

There is only one scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus ate flesh. All I said was that it's debatable, I didn't elaborate on that. I did talk about another passage, the one about Jesus multiplying the loaves for the 5000. I stated that when Jesus relayed that story, He did not say anything about fish. Neither did some of the early church fathers.

But all of that aside, both you and the other guy have been ignoring my main point. My main point is not about this temporary fallen world, but about God's true intent and perfect will, which we can see when you look the BIG picture. As I said before, the beginning was vegetarian and the future will go back to how it was in the beginning, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning.

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

Your main point is not at all what you're pretending it is: a temporary fallen world. Your main point, the point you keep insisting on, is that you know more of the will of God for the world than did Jesus himself, and that you know more about the actual life of Jesus than did all four of the Apostles who wrote the Gospels in the New Testament. You're a vegan who kills animals to eat every day of your life but you're so shallow that you think not killing cuddly, furry, rabbits makes you better than everyone else. You're a sanctimonious twit.

Absolutely false. Not even meat-eating scholars deny that the beginning was vegetarian, and that in the future, according to prophetic scriptures ("the wolf will lay with the lamb") there will be a return to the peace and harmony that existed in the beginning.

We also know from numerous scriptures that in heaven, there is no suffering, exploitation, needless killing and death.

It doesn't take anyone special to understand God's perfect will in regard to how creation should interact with eachother. All we have to do is look at heaven.

For you to deny that is what is arrogant, selfish and borderline blasphemous.

God made meat eaters, give up you can not support God and condemn all his creatures designed to eat meat.

Grow up kid

 

[Levant]

There is only one scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus ate flesh. All I said was that it's debatable, I didn't elaborate on that. I did talk about another passage, the one about Jesus multiplying the loaves for the 5000. I stated that when Jesus relayed that story, He did not say anything about fish. Neither did some of the early church fathers.

But all of that aside, both you and the other guy have been ignoring my main point. My main point is not about this temporary fallen world, but about God's true intent and perfect will, which we can see when you look the BIG picture. As I said before, the beginning was vegetarian and the future will go back to how it was in the beginning, when God restores the peace and harmony HE created in the beginning.

Do you believe that Christians should have an eternal perspective?

Your main point is not at all what you're pretending it is: a temporary fallen world. Your main point, the point you keep insisting on, is that you know more of the will of God for the world than did Jesus himself, and that you know more about the actual life of Jesus than did all four of the Apostles who wrote the Gospels in the New Testament. You're a vegan who kills animals to eat every day of your life but you're so shallow that you think not killing cuddly, furry, rabbits makes you better than everyone else. You're a sanctimonious twit.

Absolutely false. Not even meat-eating scholars deny that the beginning was vegetarian, and that in the future, according to prophetic scriptures ("the wolf will lay with the lamb") there will be a return to the peace and harmony that existed in the beginning.

We also know from numerous scriptures that in heaven, there is no suffering, exploitation, needless killing and death.

It doesn't take anyone special to understand God's perfect will in regard to how creation should interact with eachother. All we have to do is look at heaven.

For you to deny that is what is arrogant, selfish and borderline blasphemous.

There's also no lying in Heaven. And there's no anti-Christs in Heaven. There was once another war between those who thought they knew more than God... They lost. Good luck with that.

 

[buttercup]

God made meat eaters, give up you can not support God and condemn all his creatures designed to eat meat.

Genesis 1:29-30 proves your statement wrong. And btw, aren't you the person who was mocking and attacking Christianity on another thread? If that was you, then why are you now trying to talk about this from a Christian perspective?

 

[esalla]

God made meat eaters, give up you can not support God and condemn all his creatures designed to eat meat.

Genesis 1:29-30 proves your statement wrong. And btw, aren't you the person who was mocking and attacking Christianity on another thread? If that was you, then why are you now trying to talk about this from a Christian perspective?

God clearly intended for flesh to be eaten