Another person claiming animals are the same as people

RetiredGySgt

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.
 

Coyote

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Healthy ecosystems require both those who eat others, those who are eaten, and those who clean up the left overs.

Given that though, as good stewards, we need to treat the animals in our care with dignity, compassion and respect, giving them the best lives we can until it is time to go to that great microwave in the sky.

Using them for scientific research? Very very sparingly and carefully And some species never. We have a lot of other alternatives now.
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.

https://jandonline.org/article/S2212...192-3/fulltext


The Mayo Clinic

A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.


Harvard Medical School

Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.


Dietitians of Canada

A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs
at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.


British Dietetic Association

Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.


The British National Health Service


With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.


The Dietitians Association of Australia


Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
 
OP
RetiredGySgt

RetiredGySgt

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Notice what I said? Your statements support that with things like with GOOD planning it is still possible........ You vegans are ignorant.
 

buttercup

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Notice what I said? Your statements support that with things like with GOOD planning it is still possible........ You vegans are ignorant.
You said we depend on meat to survive, that is simply false. My point was that a vegan or vegetarian diet is SUFFICIENT, eating dead bodies is not necessary.

And as some of those quotes state, a plantbased diet reduces the risk for a number of preventable diseases.
 

westwall

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​





Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
 

westwall

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Notice what I said? Your statements support that with things like with GOOD planning it is still possible........ You vegans are ignorant.
You said we depend on meat to survive, that is simply false. My point was that a vegan or vegetarian diet is SUFFICIENT, eating dead bodies is not necessary.

And as some of those quotes state, a plantbased diet reduces the risk for a number of preventable diseases.






Sufficient is a subjective assessment.
 

Coyote

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

I would disagree, not with your data, but with some underlying assumptions. We aren't biologically designed to be efficient herbivore's. We are evolutionarily designed to be omnivores. One look at our guts, jaws and teeth pretty much prove that. The key to success is "well planned" which requires knowledge and access to affordable quality substitutes for meat protein. This is ESPECIALLY important for children.

IMO - we often eat too much meat as a culture and could do with less. But the flip side of this is what is happening to peoples who evolved to subsist on a high meat diet, such as would be found in hunter/gatherer societies like the Innuit. Transforming to a primarily carbohydrate based diet is creating all sorts of health problems.

It's not a one size fits all sort of thing. I would rather see us transform how we view our domestic animals. We entered into a compact with them when they chose to allow themselves to be domesticated - we need to uphold our side of that bargain.
 

buttercup

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
Not true. The only supplement that is probably needed is B12, but vitamin B12 does not come from animals, it is made by bacteria found in soil and water, so BOTH flesh-eaters and vegans should take it.

And most people don't even realize that because of poor soil and water these days, many livestock animals are given B12 supplements, so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal. Since you're likely getting the supplement second hand though the corpse, might as well cut out the middle man and just take the supplement directly.

I've been vegan for more than 4 years, and I don't even try that hard or do anything extra, and I am healthy....when everyone else is getting sick, I NEVER get sick anymore.

And the last time I got my blood checked, everything came back perfect, no problems except that I was slightly high in sodium, but I was not deficient in anything.

Just because some critters eat each other doesn't mean humans should. Some critters also eat their own poop and rape each other, does that mean humans should too? Animals are not our moral compass. And the fact that we have more ability to reason and understand things than animals is all the more reason to not act like barbaric savages.
 

Correll

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.


it is telling that we never see an animal claiming that people are the same as animals.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet.
That is simply false, sorry. You appear to be making that statement based on sincere ignorance.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
Dietitians of Canada
A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​
Well planned, yet ALL require nutritional supplements. I hate to break it to ya but Coyote is correct. Ethical treatment of critters is essential, but all critters eat each other.

If we weren't supposed to eat them, they wouldn't taste good.
Not true. The only supplement that is probably needed is B12, but vitamin B12 does not come from animals, it is made by bacteria found in soil and water, so BOTH flesh-eaters and vegans should take it.

And most people don't even realize that because of poor soil and water these days, many livestock animals are given B12 supplements, so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal. Since you're likely getting the supplement second hand though the corpse, might as well cut out the middle man and just take the supplement directly.

I've been vegan for more than 4 years, and I don't even try that hard or do anything extra, and I am healthy....when everyone else is getting sick, I NEVER get sick anymore.

And the last time I got my blood checked, everything came back perfect, no problems except that I was slightly high in sodium, but I was not deficient in anything.

Just because some critters eat each other doesn't mean humans should. Some critters also eat their own poop and rape each other, does that mean humans should too? Animals are not our moral compass. And the fact that we have more ability to reason and understand things than animals is all the more reason to not act like barbaric savages.
so flesh eaters are actually getting it second-hand, filtered through the corpse of an abused, exploited animal.

Tastes good and good for you!!!
 

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