Alterations of the bible through history

[Woodznutz]

Rome had no contact with Babylon. Jerusalem is on seven hills. Martin Luther wanted to slander Rome. Until he came along Israel was the whore of Babylon... Whoring after false gods. It's repeated throughout the Old Testament.

"Babylon" didn't end with the fall of Jerusalem. The RCC as the inheritor of that mantle fits like a pair of sweaty leotards.

 

[Woodznutz]

Revelation isn't prophecy. It's a symbolic narrative of what happened in the first century. Nero died in June of 68 AD. Jerusalem is referred to as the harlot all through the Old Testament.

I think maybe you've been sidelined by Cyrus Scofield.

So, Christ has already returned? Sorry I missed it.

 

[norwegen]

So, Christ has already returned? Sorry I missed it.

It was at night. You should have stayed awake.

 

[Woodznutz]

It was at night. You should have stayed awake.

I thought he was going to take care of all these problems that we're dealing with. ???

 

[norwegen]

I thought he was going to take care of all these problems that we're dealing with. ???

Oh? Did someone tell you that?

 

[Woodznutz]

Oh? Did someone tell you that?

Sez so in the bibble.

 

[norwegen]

Sez so in the bibble.

Where in the Bible?

 

[Woodznutz]

Where in the Bible?

Are you serious?

 

[norwegen]

Are you serious?

Let's just say I am. But if you wish to beat around the bush, let's just start with your premise.

The problems that we're facing today . . . what kinds of problems?

 

[Woodznutz]

Let's just say I am. But if you wish to beat around the bush, let's just start with your premise.

The problems that we're facing today . . . what kinds of problems?

Wars, famines, disease, crime, poverty. The usual suspects.

 

[norwegen]

Wars, famines, disease, crime, poverty. The usual suspects.

Oh. okay.

Now where does the Bible say Christ will take of all these problems that we're dealing with?

 

[alang1216]

Perhaps Revelation is the Revelator's short look back in history to illustrate the Parousia. And I would hazard that it could well have been written in the late 60s AD. I'm not buying your story that you cannot substantiate (do you have a story?).

Perhaps anything is possible but it is generally accepted that Revelation was written in the '90s.

Blah blah blah. Irrelevant.

So the empire had recently martyred Paul and persecuted Christians in their capitol city and the writer of Revelation thought Jerusalem was evil? Right.

The Jerusalem Council convened there in AD 50 or 51. Christians (converted Jews) met there, not the Pharisaic Jews. Jesus accused Jews of transgressions in the city. Jews had him crucified. Jews killed Stepehen for saying what Jesus said, that they were unfaithful.

Romans had him crucified, Jews had no authority to do so. The Romans would want to avoid taking sides in a theological matter since they had no skin in that game. The only way they would crucify Jesus was if they thought he was a danger to Rome, not to other Jews.

Now tell us all because we're curious (at least I am) why the Christians would have allied with the Judeans in their war with Rome? A war simply between two sides would have been just another war, yet this one - the Great Revolt - served a covenantal purpose. Christianity suddenly was outpacing Judaism in popularity. More subtly, it was the Parousia as the Revelator related it.

Who said allied? I only said that Rome was a danger to Christianity that Jerusalem was not.

Why would a virtual non-entity in Jewish history - the Romans, who had only recently been in contact with Judea - all of a sudden be the subject of their sacred text? Or even the antithesis of the sacred teachings?

I have no idea what 'sacred text' you refer to? None of the Jewish texts mentioned Rome since they didn't conquer the area until much later and when they did they treated Jews very respectfully. A constant theme throughout Judaism has been the covenant with God and how the Jewish people kept coming up short. Jerusalem was the beloved capitol of Israel, it was the Jewish people that were the problem, not the city.

 

[surada]

Perhaps anything is possible but it is generally accepted that Revelation was written in the '90s.


So the empire had recently martyred Paul and persecuted Christians in their capitol city and the writer of Revelation thought Jerusalem was evil? Right.


Romans had him crucified, Jews had no authority to do so. The Romans would want to avoid taking sides in a theological matter since they had no skin in that game. The only way they would crucify Jesus was if they thought he was a danger to Rome, not to other Jews.


Who said allied? I only said that Rome was a danger to Christianity that Jerusalem was not.


I have no idea what 'sacred text' you refer to? None of the Jewish texts mentioned Rome since they didn't conquer the area until much later and when they did they treated Jews very respectfully. A constant theme throughout Judaism has been the covenant with God and how the Jewish people kept coming up short. Jerusalem was the beloved capitol of Israel, it was the Jewish people that were the problem, not the city.

No, they didn't treat the Jews respectfully. The Romans occupied Palestine and subjected them to Roman law. It was the burning issue of the day.

Rome was not a danger to Christianity. At that point Christians were considered a Jewish sect.

Scholars are divided.. some think the Revelation letter was written in 75 AD.. others more recently think it was written in 90AD.

 

[norwegen]

Perhaps anything is possible but it is generally accepted that Revelation was written in the '90s.


So the empire had recently martyred Paul and persecuted Christians in their capitol city and the writer of Revelation thought Jerusalem was evil? Right.


Romans had him crucified, Jews had no authority to do so. The Romans would want to avoid taking sides in a theological matter since they had no skin in that game. The only way they would crucify Jesus was if they thought he was a danger to Rome, not to other Jews.


Who said allied? I only said that Rome was a danger to Christianity that Jerusalem was not.


I have no idea what 'sacred text' you refer to? None of the Jewish texts mentioned Rome since they didn't conquer the area until much later and when they did they treated Jews very respectfully. A constant theme throughout Judaism has been the covenant with God and how the Jewish people kept coming up short. Jerusalem was the beloved capitol of Israel, it was the Jewish people that were the problem, not the city.

For not knowing whether Rome or Jerusalem was the whore of Babylon, you sure are argumentative about Jerusalem playing that role. That just makes you contrarian and immature.

I've made a case for Jerusalem being the unfaithful city. What is your case for Rome being so?

 

[Woodznutz]

Oh. okay.

Now where does the Bible say Christ will take of all these problems that we're dealing with?

If he is going to 'restore' the earth ("the restitution of all things") these problems will have to be eliminated.

 

[norwegen]

If he is going to 'restore' the earth ("the restitution of all things") these problems will have to be eliminated.

Yea, okay, restore the earth.

Where does the Bible say Christ will take care of all the problems that we're dealing with?

 

[Woodznutz]

Yea, okay, restore the earth.

Where does the Bible say Christ will take care of all the problems that we're dealing with?

That's what Christ' millennial rule is all about. Healing the earth and mankind.

 

[norwegen]

That's what Christ' millennial rule is all about. Healing the earth and mankind.

You mean, like, the whole planet and all the people on it?

Not buying it.

What passage says that?

 

[alang1216]

No, they didn't treat the Jews respectfully. The Romans occupied Palestine and subjected them to Roman law. It was the burning issue of the day.

Jews in Rome

Jews had lived in Rome since the second century BC. Julius Caesar and Augustus supported laws that allowed Jews protection to worship as they chose. Synagogues were classified as colleges to get around Roman laws banning secret societies and the temples were allowed to collect the yearly tax paid by all Jewish men for temple maintenance.

I seem to recall that Jews were also exempted from compulsory military service.

Rome was not a danger to Christianity. At that point Christians were considered a Jewish sect.

Nero was. Pagan society certainly was. Although there was rarely an Empire-wide oppression of Christianity, localities did martyr a good number of Christians. There were rumors that Christians engaged in secret meetings, incest, and cannibalism.

 

[alang1216]

For not knowing whether Rome or Jerusalem was the whore of Babylon, you sure are argumentative about Jerusalem playing that role. That just makes you contrarian and immature.

I never said Jerusalem was the whore of Babylon.

I've made a case for Jerusalem being the unfaithful city. What is your case for Rome being so?

At the risk of repeating myself, Nero, martyrdom of Paul and numerous Christians, and the crucifixion of Jesus.