20,000 gun laws

[TemplarKormac]

How many decades ago was that?

Huh?

 

[TemplarKormac]

And most decidedly XponentialChaos

This one.

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was passed by Biden and served to be completely ineffectual at stopping this killer from entering the premises.

 

[XponentialChaos]

This in particular, within the NICS system:

https://www.search.org/files/pdf/Reporting_Mental_Health_Records_NICS_Index.pdf

From your link:

“When a NICS background check is initiated, it checks for records in three nationally held databases:

- the National Crime Information Center3 (NCIC), which includes information on persons subject to civil protection orders and arrest warrants

- the Interstate Identification Index (III), a database of criminal history record information, and

-the NICS Index, which includes information contributed by Federal and state agencies identifying persons prohibited from possessing firearms who are not included in the III or NCIC, such as persons with a prohibiting mental health history or who are illegal or unlawful aliens.

Additionally, states acting as a POC search state and local databases that may contain disqualifying information that has not been made available to the NICS.
Categories of disqualifying records include:
- persons with convictions for felonies punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding one year and misdemeanors punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years
- fugitives from justice
- unlawful users of controlled substances
- persons adjudicated mentally defective, found not guilty by reason of insanity, or involuntarily committed to a mental health institution
- illegal or unlawful aliens
- persons dishonorably discharged from the
military
- persons who have renounced their U.S. citizenship
- subjects of protection orders
- persons convicted of a misdemeanor crime
of domestic violence
- persons under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.”

=================================

Exactly none of that applied to this 18-year-old. He had a clean record.

You’re using this to say that the laws aren’t being enforced when none of this applied to him.

 

[XponentialChaos]

And most decidedly XponentialChaos

This one.

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was passed by Biden and served to be completely ineffectual at stopping this killer from entering the premises.

Ineffective is a good way of putting it. Perhaps something should be implemented that would be more effective?

Like raising the age limit on long guns.

 

[TemplarKormac]

From your link:

“When a NICS background check is initiated, it checks for records in three nationally held databases:

- the National Crime Information Center3 (NCIC), which includes information on persons subject to civil protection orders and arrest warrants

- the Interstate Identification Index (III), a database of criminal history record information, and

-the NICS Index, which includes information contributed by Federal and state agencies identifying persons prohibited from possessing firearms who are not included in the III or NCIC, such as persons with a prohibiting mental health history or who are illegal or unlawful aliens.

Additionally, states acting as a POC search state and local databases that may contain disqualifying information that has not been made available to the NICS.
Categories of disqualifying records include:
- persons with convictions for felonies punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding one year and misdemeanors punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years
- fugitives from justice
- unlawful users of controlled substances
- persons adjudicated mentally defective, found not guilty by reason of insanity, or involuntarily committed to a mental health institution
- illegal or unlawful aliens
- persons dishonorably discharged from the
military
- persons who have renounced their U.S. citizenship
- subjects of protection orders
- persons convicted of a misdemeanor crime
of domestic violence
- persons under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.”

=================================

Exactly none of that applied to this 18-year-old. He had a clean record.

You’re using this to say that the laws aren’t being enforced when none of this applied to him.

The NICS database is pulled each time someone purchases a firearm. Don't test my knowledge on the subject.

No records, no issues, no impediment to purchase.

That is the flaw in the system. If you have no records to put into the system, the seller will have no choice but to clear the person.

It isn't being implemented properly because it was crafted improperly by those who drafted it.

The single greatest loophole is the one where the applicant has no prior records. Criminal or psychological. Raising the age does not guarantee that the applicant will have any records for it to go off of.

This was one of 20,000 laws that were ineffective in stopping this massacre. Why raise the age when there is an illicit trade for guns in this country? An 18 year old with an insatiable desire to kill will look for ways to acquire an illegal gun.

The laws need to be airtight or this will continue. The implementation needs to be perfect or this will continue.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ineffective is a good way of putting it. Perhaps something should be implemented that would be more effective?

Like raising the age limit on long guns.

I already explained at length what would be more effective. You are too entrenched in your own idea to see the plethora of others out there that would address this situation equally if not to greater extents than raising the age limit.

 

[XponentialChaos]

The NICS database is pulled each time someone purchases a firearm. Don't test my knowledge on the subject.

No records, no issues, no impediment to purchase.

That is the flaw in the system. If you have no records to put into the system, the seller will have no choice but to clear the person.

It isn't being implemented properly because it was crafted improperly by those who drafted it.

Your argument was that the laws aren’t being enforced. They are. They’re just not adequate.

That’s the problem.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I already explained at length what would be more effective. You are too entrenched in your own idea to see the plethora of others out there that would address this situation equally if not to greater extents than raising the age limit.

What would be more effective?

I’m open to just about anything.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What would be more effective?

I’m open to just about anything.

Your memory sure is short. Simple, amend the NICS law to mandate a psychological evaluation for any applicant, also mandate gun safety training. Make the trainer and psychologist aubmit records to the system verifying the person has done both. Also it should require close friends, relatives, and cohorts to sign affidavits with specific questions related to the individual's mannerisms, demeanor, or other factors that may disqualify them from a gun purchase. If no relatives, friends, or cohorts, then a more rigorous psychological evaluation may be needed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Your argument was that the laws aren’t being enforced. They are. They’re just not adequate.

That’s the problem.

Every mass murder or mass shooting that happens is evidence to the contrary. Chicago is a prime example of that. Some of the strictest gun laws in the US yet the highest gun crime rate in the US.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Your argument was that the laws aren’t being enforced. They are. They’re just not adequate.

That’s the problem.

Also, reread the latter half of the post you quoted. I was editing it when you replied.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Your memory sure is short. Simple, amend the NICS law to mandate a psychological evaluation for any applicant, also mandate gun safety training. Make the trainer and psychologist aubmit records to the system verifying the person has done both. Also it should require close friends, relatives, and cohorts to sign affidavits with specific questions related to the individual's mannerisms, demeanor, or other factors that may disqualify them from a gun purchase.

Sounds good to me. Are Republicans doing anything like that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sounds good to me. Are Republicans doing anything like that?

You seem to think I have the power to make them.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Every mass murder or mass shooting that happens is evidence to the contrary. Chicago is a prime example of that. Some of the strictest gun laws in the US yet the highest gun crime rate in the US.

Hence why we need laws that are actually effective.

Throw out all of them and start from scratch. Fine with me.

 

[XponentialChaos]

You seem to think I have the power to make them.

No, but you have the power to vote for people who represent you and what you believe.

Are they representing your thoughts on this? I hope they are but ai doubt it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sounds good to me. Are Republicans doing anything like that?

Neither party is interested in solving the issue.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hence why we need laws that are actually effective.

Throw out all of them and start from scratch. Fine with me.

I can live with that. If it happens.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, but you have the power to vote for people who represent you and what you believe.

Are they representing your thoughts on this? I hope they are but ai doubt it.

My vote for the right person doesn't guarantee the right person wins. Besides, I have other things aside from my 2nd Amendment rights to consider when I vote as well.

 

[XponentialChaos]

This was one of 20,000 laws that were ineffective in stopping this massacre. Why raise the age when there is an illicit trade for guns in this country? An 18 year old with an insatiable desire to kill will look for ways to acquire an illegal gun.

The laws need to be airtight or this will continue. The implementation needs to be perfect or this will continue.

There’s nothing that is going to be airtight. That’s not my goal. But that doesn’t mean we can’t improve the issue significantly.

Mom described the elementary school shooter as a loner without many friends. It’s possible that he finds another way, but I’m not so sure about that.

Furthermore, we need to penalize people who take part in those straw purchases.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Neither party is interested in solving the issue.

My party is interested in expanding background checks, like you suggested.

Your party isn’t.

GOP blocks bill to expand gun background checks after Michigan school shooting

Sen. Chuck Grassley (Iowa), the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, on Thursday blocked a request to proceed to legislation passed by the House in March to expand background check…

thehill.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/24/wake-uvalde-furious-democrats-assail-republicans-over-resistance-tightening-gun-laws/