Why teachers need more pay

[gallantwarrior]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

I wonder what the typical school administrator's salary is compared to a teacher's? I suppose that would totally disgust anyone who is familiar with a teacher's job.

Eh, no one becomes a teacher to get rich.

I agree. I teach because I like to teach. But it just seems a shame that some desk jockey, office wonk gets paid significantly more (in many cases) than the teachers who constitute the skid marks where the rubber meets the road.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Anyone want to respond who makes a living or has made a living as a classroom teacher? I'm curious.

Same here. I want to know what it's like to have three months off every year and get paid.

Depending on where you are employed, some school districts only actually pay the teachers' salaries during the months they work. The individual must budget accordingly, or find summer work, to cover expenses during the months "off" from teaching. Some school districts will prorate the teachers' salaries so they have a year-round monthly paycheck.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

I wonder what the typical school administrator's salary is compared to a teacher's? I suppose that would totally disgust anyone who is familiar with a teacher's job.

I was an administrator in Florida. My pay scale was only slightly more than I got as a teacher. When promoted, I think I was making $38,000 and then made $42,000 working a year-round contract. After an average of about 14 hours a day as an assistant principal for almost two years, I went back to teaching for the Department of Defense Dependents Schools at $42,000 a year, some extra time off in the summer, and a lot less stress.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Anyone want to respond who makes a living or has made a living as a classroom teacher? I'm curious.

Same here. I want to know what it's like to have three months off every year and get paid.

Depending on where you are employed, some school districts only actually pay the teachers' salaries during the months they work. The individual must budget accordingly, or find summer work, to cover expenses during the months "off" from teaching. Some school districts will prorate the teachers' salaries so they have a year-round monthly paycheck.

If you really want to know what it is like to get paid in the summer, while you are off, take a good chunk of your regular paycheck and stick in the savings account so you will have money over any breaks during the year because we don't get paid for those either! The three-month off in the summer bullshit really gets old, as we have training during about 4 weeks of the summer break for at least a day or two per week, so any plans you have get screwed! Plus, when you get off at the end of May and go back sometimes at the end of July, how does that equal 3 months? I think someone needs to learn to read a calendar.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

Well it's an interesting point.

If you're in trade or something, you can make loads of money for not doing that much work. But teachers, it doesn't matter what they do, they get paid, but never enough for the amount of work they're putting in, simply because there's no money rolling into their pockets from the transactions they performing on a daily basis.

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

I thought teachers got paid time off. My sister in law makes good money and summers in Greece every year. Plus snow days? Spring break? Shit

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

I thought teachers got paid time off. My sister in law makes good money and summers in Greece every year. Plus snow days? Spring break? Shit

We get holidays for Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, MLK B-day, Presidents Day and that's it. Every other day off is unpaid.

 

[Aries]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

Say what? Pay teachers "per hour per child"? The union would cram a thousand kids into a classroom. Why not deduct a percentage from teachers salaries for every kid that drops out?

It's not a real suggestion just showing how much teachers are really "worth"

 

[westfieldguide]

I am a 7th grade social studies teacher in a middle school. So let me lay something to rest here. K-12 teachers do not (usually) teach classes during the summer. That much is true, but being a teacher is hardly a part time job. I arrive at school at 7am and I leave at 4pm. I take a 30-45 minute lunch. I don't get any other breaks during the day. I'm lucky if I even get a pee break because you can't leave a bunch of 7th graders alone or chaos ensues. On average I work about 10 hours a week extra outside of my normal 7-4. Our school year is 35 weeks. That is 350 extra hours worked beyond a weekly 40. That is 8.75 extra weeks of work done during the regular school year which is a week shy of 3 months. On top of that I have to do continuing education courses so that I am still teaching relevant information. It is a full time job, but it is not structured around a 12 month, 40 hour work week as most jobs are structured. I work just as many hours in a year as most Americans, if not more. On top of that, though I do accrue vacation leave I never get to use it because it means falling behind in my lesson plans. For this job, I get paid about 52k per year. I contribute $200 a month to my health premiums and 6% of my total salary to a PERS account that will never actually pay me anything even if I ever actually get to retire. Furthermore, teaching is hard work. I don't get to check out in my little cube and read facebook when no one is looking. When you are a teacher you are always ON. There is no downtime.

Where I have to agree with some of the comments is in regard to cronyism and tenure. Nepotism and cronyism absolutely exists and is a problem in education. Upper level administrators are often completely out of touch with teachers and promotions do not always go to those to who deserve them. The emphasis on seniority over talent or innovation absolutely needs to change. Far too many teachers are resting on their 10 year old lesson plans and do the minimum to get by. It is total BS. Those factors and the fact that overall education in the US is dreadfully underfunded contributes to poor teachers and poor outcomes. We do need to pay our teachers more, we need to give them more autonomy in the classroom and more respect from everyone. If we do we can attract the best talent and keep them.

To those who whine "It must be nice to have summers off" all I can say is go to college, or back to college and get teaching credentials. There is a national shortage of K-12 teachers. Especially in math and science. You too can have summers off!

 

[Unkotare]

.

 

[sealybobo]

I am a 7th grade social studies teacher in a middle school. So let me lay something to rest here. K-12 teachers do not (usually) teach classes during the summer. That much is true, but being a teacher is hardly a part time job. I arrive at school at 7am and I leave at 4pm. I take a 30-45 minute lunch. I don't get any other breaks during the day. I'm lucky if I even get a pee break because you can't leave a bunch of 7th graders alone or chaos ensues. On average I work about 10 hours a week extra outside of my normal 7-4. Our school year is 35 weeks. That is 350 extra hours worked beyond a weekly 40. That is 8.75 extra weeks of work done during the regular school year which is a week shy of 3 months. On top of that I have to do continuing education courses so that I am still teaching relevant information. It is a full time job, but it is not structured around a 12 month, 40 hour work week as most jobs are structured. I work just as many hours in a year as most Americans, if not more. On top of that, though I do accrue vacation leave I never get to use it because it means falling behind in my lesson plans. For this job, I get paid about 52k per year. I contribute $200 a month to my health premiums and 6% of my total salary to a PERS account that will never actually pay me anything even if I ever actually get to retire. Furthermore, teaching is hard work. I don't get to check out in my little cube and read facebook when no one is looking. When you are a teacher you are always ON. There is no downtime.

Where I have to agree with some of the comments is in regard to cronyism and tenure. Nepotism and cronyism absolutely exists and is a problem in education. Upper level administrators are often completely out of touch with teachers and promotions do not always go to those to who deserve them. The emphasis on seniority over talent or innovation absolutely needs to change. Far too many teachers are resting on their 10 year old lesson plans and do the minimum to get by. It is total BS. Those factors and the fact that overall education in the US is dreadfully underfunded contributes to poor teachers and poor outcomes. We do need to pay our teachers more, we need to give them more autonomy in the classroom and more respect from everyone. If we do we can attract the best talent and keep them.

To those who whine "It must be nice to have summers off" all I can say is go to college, or back to college and get teaching credentials. There is a national shortage of K-12 teachers. Especially in math and science. You too can have summers off!

We all work hard, and off the clock.

Do you get a pension after so many years of work or does the school put money into your savings retirement of 401k? Do you get summers off? That’s shit we don’t get.

 

[SweetSue92]

I am a 7th grade social studies teacher in a middle school. So let me lay something to rest here. K-12 teachers do not (usually) teach classes during the summer. That much is true, but being a teacher is hardly a part time job. I arrive at school at 7am and I leave at 4pm. I take a 30-45 minute lunch. I don't get any other breaks during the day. I'm lucky if I even get a pee break because you can't leave a bunch of 7th graders alone or chaos ensues. On average I work about 10 hours a week extra outside of my normal 7-4. Our school year is 35 weeks. That is 350 extra hours worked beyond a weekly 40. That is 8.75 extra weeks of work done during the regular school year which is a week shy of 3 months. On top of that I have to do continuing education courses so that I am still teaching relevant information. It is a full time job, but it is not structured around a 12 month, 40 hour work week as most jobs are structured. I work just as many hours in a year as most Americans, if not more. On top of that, though I do accrue vacation leave I never get to use it because it means falling behind in my lesson plans. For this job, I get paid about 52k per year. I contribute $200 a month to my health premiums and 6% of my total salary to a PERS account that will never actually pay me anything even if I ever actually get to retire. Furthermore, teaching is hard work. I don't get to check out in my little cube and read facebook when no one is looking. When you are a teacher you are always ON. There is no downtime.

Where I have to agree with some of the comments is in regard to cronyism and tenure. Nepotism and cronyism absolutely exists and is a problem in education. Upper level administrators are often completely out of touch with teachers and promotions do not always go to those to who deserve them. The emphasis on seniority over talent or innovation absolutely needs to change. Far too many teachers are resting on their 10 year old lesson plans and do the minimum to get by. It is total BS. Those factors and the fact that overall education in the US is dreadfully underfunded contributes to poor teachers and poor outcomes. We do need to pay our teachers more, we need to give them more autonomy in the classroom and more respect from everyone. If we do we can attract the best talent and keep them.

To those who whine "It must be nice to have summers off" all I can say is go to college, or back to college and get teaching credentials. There is a national shortage of K-12 teachers. Especially in math and science. You too can have summers off!

We all work hard, and off the clock.

Do you get a pension after so many years of work or does the school put money into your savings retirement of 401k? Do you get summers off? That’s shit we don’t get.

There is really nothing to argue here--the market will work. And the market IS working. Teachers are deciding, in pretty big numbers that the job many of them adore is no longer worth the energy, effort, time, sweat, tears and etc. for the money they are being paid.

Good luck, America, replacing us with the money you are willing to pay. I mean that's it. Many on this board have already admitted it's Lord of the Flies for them--they will pay dearly for their own children's education; nothing at all for anyone else's.

So there we are. And the decay continues apace.

 

[sealybobo]

I am a 7th grade social studies teacher in a middle school. So let me lay something to rest here. K-12 teachers do not (usually) teach classes during the summer. That much is true, but being a teacher is hardly a part time job. I arrive at school at 7am and I leave at 4pm. I take a 30-45 minute lunch. I don't get any other breaks during the day. I'm lucky if I even get a pee break because you can't leave a bunch of 7th graders alone or chaos ensues. On average I work about 10 hours a week extra outside of my normal 7-4. Our school year is 35 weeks. That is 350 extra hours worked beyond a weekly 40. That is 8.75 extra weeks of work done during the regular school year which is a week shy of 3 months. On top of that I have to do continuing education courses so that I am still teaching relevant information. It is a full time job, but it is not structured around a 12 month, 40 hour work week as most jobs are structured. I work just as many hours in a year as most Americans, if not more. On top of that, though I do accrue vacation leave I never get to use it because it means falling behind in my lesson plans. For this job, I get paid about 52k per year. I contribute $200 a month to my health premiums and 6% of my total salary to a PERS account that will never actually pay me anything even if I ever actually get to retire. Furthermore, teaching is hard work. I don't get to check out in my little cube and read facebook when no one is looking. When you are a teacher you are always ON. There is no downtime.

Where I have to agree with some of the comments is in regard to cronyism and tenure. Nepotism and cronyism absolutely exists and is a problem in education. Upper level administrators are often completely out of touch with teachers and promotions do not always go to those to who deserve them. The emphasis on seniority over talent or innovation absolutely needs to change. Far too many teachers are resting on their 10 year old lesson plans and do the minimum to get by. It is total BS. Those factors and the fact that overall education in the US is dreadfully underfunded contributes to poor teachers and poor outcomes. We do need to pay our teachers more, we need to give them more autonomy in the classroom and more respect from everyone. If we do we can attract the best talent and keep them.

To those who whine "It must be nice to have summers off" all I can say is go to college, or back to college and get teaching credentials. There is a national shortage of K-12 teachers. Especially in math and science. You too can have summers off!

We all work hard, and off the clock.

Do you get a pension after so many years of work or does the school put money into your savings retirement of 401k? Do you get summers off? That’s shit we don’t get.

There is really nothing to argue here--the market will work. And the market IS working. Teachers are deciding, in pretty big numbers that the job many of them adore is no longer worth the energy, effort, time, sweat, tears and etc. for the money they are being paid.

Good luck, America, replacing us with the money you are willing to pay. I mean that's it. Many on this board have already admitted it's Lord of the Flies for them--they will pay dearly for their own children's education; nothing at all for anyone else's.

So there we are. And the decay continues apace.

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

 

[SweetSue92]

I am a 7th grade social studies teacher in a middle school. So let me lay something to rest here. K-12 teachers do not (usually) teach classes during the summer. That much is true, but being a teacher is hardly a part time job. I arrive at school at 7am and I leave at 4pm. I take a 30-45 minute lunch. I don't get any other breaks during the day. I'm lucky if I even get a pee break because you can't leave a bunch of 7th graders alone or chaos ensues. On average I work about 10 hours a week extra outside of my normal 7-4. Our school year is 35 weeks. That is 350 extra hours worked beyond a weekly 40. That is 8.75 extra weeks of work done during the regular school year which is a week shy of 3 months. On top of that I have to do continuing education courses so that I am still teaching relevant information. It is a full time job, but it is not structured around a 12 month, 40 hour work week as most jobs are structured. I work just as many hours in a year as most Americans, if not more. On top of that, though I do accrue vacation leave I never get to use it because it means falling behind in my lesson plans. For this job, I get paid about 52k per year. I contribute $200 a month to my health premiums and 6% of my total salary to a PERS account that will never actually pay me anything even if I ever actually get to retire. Furthermore, teaching is hard work. I don't get to check out in my little cube and read facebook when no one is looking. When you are a teacher you are always ON. There is no downtime.

Where I have to agree with some of the comments is in regard to cronyism and tenure. Nepotism and cronyism absolutely exists and is a problem in education. Upper level administrators are often completely out of touch with teachers and promotions do not always go to those to who deserve them. The emphasis on seniority over talent or innovation absolutely needs to change. Far too many teachers are resting on their 10 year old lesson plans and do the minimum to get by. It is total BS. Those factors and the fact that overall education in the US is dreadfully underfunded contributes to poor teachers and poor outcomes. We do need to pay our teachers more, we need to give them more autonomy in the classroom and more respect from everyone. If we do we can attract the best talent and keep them.

To those who whine "It must be nice to have summers off" all I can say is go to college, or back to college and get teaching credentials. There is a national shortage of K-12 teachers. Especially in math and science. You too can have summers off!

We all work hard, and off the clock.

Do you get a pension after so many years of work or does the school put money into your savings retirement of 401k? Do you get summers off? That’s shit we don’t get.

There is really nothing to argue here--the market will work. And the market IS working. Teachers are deciding, in pretty big numbers that the job many of them adore is no longer worth the energy, effort, time, sweat, tears and etc. for the money they are being paid.

Good luck, America, replacing us with the money you are willing to pay. I mean that's it. Many on this board have already admitted it's Lord of the Flies for them--they will pay dearly for their own children's education; nothing at all for anyone else's.

So there we are. And the decay continues apace.

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

Many of my colleagues have left teaching and gone into lucrative careers. ??? It seems that you're assuming "those women" are stupid. If they're stupid, I don't know--they shouldn't be teachers in the first place. But if they're not stupid, believe me, in this economy, there are places and people who will hire them.

Now I ask you: how do you expect to find smart, good teachers if those smart, good teachers can go into lucrative careers elsewhere, work much fewer hours year round even if they DO NOT get summers off, set their own bathroom breaks and schedules during the day, not have to grade papers and etc? Do not get me wrong, I adore teaching. I've been at this for 25 years. I just want to know how YOU propose to work this out.

Do tell us, Mr. Genius. Maybe these really smart, savvy women would love to work 12 hour days for 35K a year and buy school supplies for their students from that money and work second jobs for 30 years with dwindling pensions out of the goodness of their hearts--is that how you figure it?

 

[sparky]

guffaw...boulderdash.... poppycock....cachinnation.....throwing more $$$ will not produce better teachers /education.....

proper vetting is the answer.....



~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

guffaw...boulderdash.... poppycock....cachinnation.....throwing more $$$ will not produce better teachers /education.....

proper vetting is the answer.....



~S~

I don't disagree. But if you're going to expect vetting you're expecting a better class of teacher. For a better class, you need to pay more. This is basic market principles. Not necessarily in my state; at the top of the pay scale we're fairly well paid. But to pay someone $35,000/year to teach is ridiculous.

 

[sealybobo]

I am a 7th grade social studies teacher in a middle school. So let me lay something to rest here. K-12 teachers do not (usually) teach classes during the summer. That much is true, but being a teacher is hardly a part time job. I arrive at school at 7am and I leave at 4pm. I take a 30-45 minute lunch. I don't get any other breaks during the day. I'm lucky if I even get a pee break because you can't leave a bunch of 7th graders alone or chaos ensues. On average I work about 10 hours a week extra outside of my normal 7-4. Our school year is 35 weeks. That is 350 extra hours worked beyond a weekly 40. That is 8.75 extra weeks of work done during the regular school year which is a week shy of 3 months. On top of that I have to do continuing education courses so that I am still teaching relevant information. It is a full time job, but it is not structured around a 12 month, 40 hour work week as most jobs are structured. I work just as many hours in a year as most Americans, if not more. On top of that, though I do accrue vacation leave I never get to use it because it means falling behind in my lesson plans. For this job, I get paid about 52k per year. I contribute $200 a month to my health premiums and 6% of my total salary to a PERS account that will never actually pay me anything even if I ever actually get to retire. Furthermore, teaching is hard work. I don't get to check out in my little cube and read facebook when no one is looking. When you are a teacher you are always ON. There is no downtime.

Where I have to agree with some of the comments is in regard to cronyism and tenure. Nepotism and cronyism absolutely exists and is a problem in education. Upper level administrators are often completely out of touch with teachers and promotions do not always go to those to who deserve them. The emphasis on seniority over talent or innovation absolutely needs to change. Far too many teachers are resting on their 10 year old lesson plans and do the minimum to get by. It is total BS. Those factors and the fact that overall education in the US is dreadfully underfunded contributes to poor teachers and poor outcomes. We do need to pay our teachers more, we need to give them more autonomy in the classroom and more respect from everyone. If we do we can attract the best talent and keep them.

To those who whine "It must be nice to have summers off" all I can say is go to college, or back to college and get teaching credentials. There is a national shortage of K-12 teachers. Especially in math and science. You too can have summers off!

We all work hard, and off the clock.

Do you get a pension after so many years of work or does the school put money into your savings retirement of 401k? Do you get summers off? That’s shit we don’t get.

There is really nothing to argue here--the market will work. And the market IS working. Teachers are deciding, in pretty big numbers that the job many of them adore is no longer worth the energy, effort, time, sweat, tears and etc. for the money they are being paid.

Good luck, America, replacing us with the money you are willing to pay. I mean that's it. Many on this board have already admitted it's Lord of the Flies for them--they will pay dearly for their own children's education; nothing at all for anyone else's.

So there we are. And the decay continues apace.

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

Many of my colleagues have left teaching and gone into lucrative careers. ??? It seems that you're assuming "those women" are stupid. If they're stupid, I don't know--they shouldn't be teachers in the first place. But if they're not stupid, believe me, in this economy, there are places and people who will hire them.

Now I ask you: how do you expect to find smart, good teachers if those smart, good teachers can go into lucrative careers elsewhere, work much fewer hours year round even if they DO NOT get summers off, set their own bathroom breaks and schedules during the day, not have to grade papers and etc? Do not get me wrong, I adore teaching. I've been at this for 25 years. I just want to know how YOU propose to work this out.

Do tell us, Mr. Genius. Maybe these really smart, savvy women would love to work 12 hour days for 35K a year and buy school supplies for their students from that money and work second jobs for 30 years with dwindling pensions out of the goodness of their hearts--is that how you figure it?

They can’t go into lucrative careers. Teaching children doesn’t translate into the business world.

I know lawyers and engineers can go into business and find very lucrative jobs but I’m not sure what you think an English or history teacher is qualified to do?

What are some of these lucrative jobs you are talking about?

Companies are still only hiring people who have experience in the job in which they are being hired to do. That means companies aren’t hiring teachers to be accounting, hr, it, quality, sales, marketing, etc. you wouldn’t know what you were doing.

 

[sparky]

This is basic market principles.

Those basic principals don't necessarily consider mental/emotional stability Sue

Methinks you caught the jist of that w/in the jocularity i posted

~S~

 

[sealybobo]

guffaw...boulderdash.... poppycock....cachinnation.....throwing more $$$ will not produce better teachers /education.....

proper vetting is the answer.....



~S~

I don't disagree. But if you're going to expect vetting you're expecting a better class of teacher. For a better class, you need to pay more. This is basic market principles. Not necessarily in my state; at the top of the pay scale we're fairly well paid. But to pay someone $35,000/year to teach is ridiculous.

Not bad for a kid right out of school. If you are good that should go up to $50k a year max. Plenty of women will opt to be a teacher for that rather than go into the business world.

Which by the way. Most women I know who are in hr, accounting, IT, marketing, etc... they only make about $50k a year. And they don’t get nearly as many days off as you do.

Maybe $60k for the best teachers. $70k for vice principal and $80k for principals. Any more is overpaying government workers. If you want to get rich don’t go into teaching.

And do you guys still get pensions? You shouldn’t. 401k like the rest of us.

 

[Unkotare]

as if any skill or experience is necessary to be some sales monkey. The only real requirement for sales is a lack of self-esteem.