Why Is Merely POINTING OUT Racism Worse Than ACTUAL Racism To So Many on The Right??

[gallantwarrior]

I have no idea if he's a racist. That's why I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said "almost all." I'm open to the possibility that he's one of the rare exceptions to the rule.

I live in the South, I've known several people who've flown variations of the confederate flag. Some of them weren't racist, just socially inept and clueless.

I don't fly a confederate battle flag, even though I was born in Texas and have lived most of my life in the South. The ONLY reason I won't fly it is because one of my ancestors, who also happens to bear my name, died in the civil war fighting for the union army. It has absolutely nothing to do with race. That flag represents Southern Pride to me. Not race.

"Southern Pride" Why am I thinking code phrase here?

Umm, 'cause you're a liberal racist?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Why do so many on the Right feel this way?

Anyone...?

Spot on, my friend. It's called deflection. As I posted several times on my thread on this:

I have trouble with this idea that a policy that obviously is designed to HELLP members of a minority race that has historically been discriminated against and perscuted in our country, is labeled "racist" because it may do so at the expense of the majority race (i.e., caucasians) that has been doing the persecuting all of these years.

That is not "raciscm." Rather, it is exactly the opposite. Might as well say that the kid who comes to the aid of a child who is being bullied in school, is himself a bully, because he is depriving the real bully of his fun.

Wrong.

It IS absolutely racism.

Let's go with some BASIC definitions to get started:

1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. * * * *

Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com

Now, let's consider your claim. I will STIPULATE that America had a history of racism. That's not much of a concession. It's the mere admission of an historical and I believe undeniable fact.

Let me further stipulate that the EFFECT of racism in America left the victims of that racial discrimination -- official and unofficial racism -- in a very disadvantaged state in terms of poverty.

Now, whether one agrees with Affirmative Action in principle or not, let me go even further and stipulate that the original motivation for AA was to give some measure of fairness to the present day victims of past discrimination. I will commend the underlying motivation of trying to rectify the harm caused. BUT that DOES beg the question. HOW do we go about fixing it without taking race into account?

And the history of AA is a history of very much TAKING race into account.

Now let's consider the practical aspect of that. BECAUSE of the impoverished educational opportunities inflicted on the victims of racism, when it comes time to get a job, they are working at a disadvantage. So, the government decides in the interest of "fairness" to put the thumb on the scale. Race consciousness is the order of the day. If you are a black job applicant, you get a leg up. Even without "quotas" the GOVERNMENT mandates it and "monitors" compliance....

What do you call it when the government policy and heavy handed action takes RACE into account in that fashion?

And you might think, "oh hell. It's only the opposite of racism. We aren't disadvantaging a black man on the basis of race! Not noble US! No no. We are giving him an ADVANTAGE on the basis of race." You might tend to feel all vituous and noble about it. Except

The flip side is that because of that governmental policy, you ARE disadvantaging others on account of race -- the white applicants, for example.

So, once again, what do you call it when the government policy and heavy handed action takes RACE into account in that fashion?

You may not LIKe the idea of admitting that it's racism, but it is racism.

It's only racism if it goes against their interests.

 

[Salt Jones]

This guy must be a racist huh?

Black Confederate - YouTube

The same with these men.

Sunday in the South: Black History Month in Whiteville, NC

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Black-Slaveowners-Masters-Carolina-1790-1860/dp/1570030375]Amazon.com: Black Slaveowners: Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina, 1790-1860 (9781570030376): Larry Koger: Books[/ame]

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms


According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

Perhaps one day the black folks in this country will learn their history.

But I won't hold my breath.

ANd maybe one day you'll learn yours. Read the Cornerstone speech.

 

[buckeye45_73]

racism only coaunts if it helps liberals. It's just a political tool.

 

[Ravi]

I've always been of this mind:

If you judge everyone and every interaction with others on the color of the skin of those involved, you are racist. It doesn't matter what color YOU are.

What if it is just one interaction?

Nah, you pretty much have to go into at least MOST interactions with color in mind.

Then we agree.

 

[MarcATL]

How often do you think something like that happens? So you help the kid deal with a jerk. That's a good thing. But do you tell him he needs to take revenge on the entire white race because of a one-in-a-million asshole? I doubt it.
I don't deny there are racists. Racism comes in all colors, by-the-way. Whites haven't got the market cornered on that particular failing. And racists may be more numerous than is evident. But thinking a thing and acting on it are two very, very different cases.

Quick question....what message is the picture in your siggy trying to convey?

Quick answer: many seem to ignore the fact that obama is part white, too. You'd think he'd be intelligent enough to use that to appeal to a wider, more racially diverse voter base. Alas, being white is not politically expedient in this PC day and age.

Again, I ask you sir...what message is the picture in your siggy trying to convey?

 

[MarcATL]

Let me clue you in here. You take claims by some people that say racism has no meaning, and you take claims by COMPLETELY different people that being accused of racism is hurtful, and you mash them together and tell us that it's the same people.

Is it clear now?

Here's the thing about that though...I never see one correcting the other. So it comes off as trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Clear as mud?

Well that is perception isn't it? I personally feel that the left have used the racist label so much it has no meaning. OTOH, if someone on the right is hurt by being called a racist, is it my place to correct them? It is not.

It's pretty clear to me.

Just like I said...trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Carry on.

Why do so many on the Right feel this way?

Anyone...?

Spot on, my friend. It's called deflection. As I posted several times on my thread on this:

I have trouble with this idea that a policy that obviously is designed to HELLP members of a minority race that has historically been discriminated against and perscuted in our country, is labeled "racist" because it may do so at the expense of the majority race (i.e., caucasians) that has been doing the persecuting all of these years.

That is not "raciscm." Rather, it is exactly the opposite. Might as well say that the kid who comes to the aid of a child who is being bullied in school, is himself a bully, because he is depriving the real bully of his fun.

POWERFUL!!!

I have no idea if he's a racist. That's why I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said "almost all." I'm open to the possibility that he's one of the rare exceptions to the rule.

I live in the South, I've known several people who've flown variations of the confederate flag. Some of them weren't racist, just socially inept and clueless.

I don't fly a confederate battle flag, even though I was born in Texas and have lived most of my life in the South. The ONLY reason I won't fly it is because one of my ancestors, who also happens to bear my name, died in the civil war fighting for the union army. It has absolutely nothing to do with race. That flag represents Southern Pride to me. Not race.

"Southern Pride" Why am I thinking code phrase here?

It's most definitely a dog-whistle. They're able to plausibly deny racism, while simultaneously signalling to the racists that they are on board.

 

[MarcATL]

You have often expressed the opinion that whites, and others, cannot possibly have any understanding of what blacks experience. I can grant that because none of us has the same experiences. Our experience with life can and does vary greatly depending on many factors. So, based on his life experience, what understanding can obama have for most blacks in this country? He was raised by white people, he is half white. He attended private schools abroad and in this country. He graduated from some of the most exclusive universities. His life has been anything but common as it relates to the typical black experience. Just how is obama any different than the white people you so dislike?

So now your route is to deny and/or diminish Obama's "blackness" and/or "black experience?"

Nice!

If we are permitted to display our gay pride, our black pride, our puerto rican pride, our mexican pride, etc, why can some people not display their southern pride if they so desire. Why is it some people are allowed their pride and others are denied?

You still have the right to display your bigotry. It's a free country after all. Just know that you are, in fact, displaying your bigotry with that historically racist symbol.

 

[Sallow]

Why do so many on the Right feel this way?

Anyone...?

To be honest..this pretty much is the best time for race relations in America. In the fifties and sixties the argument was about lynching and church bombings.

Personally..I don't have a problem with "private" racism. It's more of a choice. Long as it doesn't bubble up into BAU or legislation..I'm good with it.

It will probably be gone in a couple of generations if we continue on this arc.

 

[catzmeow]

If we are permitted to display our gay pride, our black pride, our puerto rican pride, our mexican pride, etc, why can some people not display their southern pride if they so desire. Why is it some people are allowed their pride and others are denied?

It's a free country, so they can fly whatever damn flag they wish.

Given that it's a free country, though, whenever you express your views publicly, be it in verbal communication (like on an online message board) or in a visual representation of their personal philosophies, someone may disagree with your views, question them, or even express some level of disagreement.

Welcome to the world of free speech.

You can fly whatever flag you wish, but some people may think and say that you're a moron for doing so. Such is life.

If you want to fly the stars and bars, best buy yourself a pair of teflon panties.

 

[catzmeow]

"Southern Pride" Why am I thinking code phrase here?

Probably because you're a yankee who's never lived in the south.

 

[MarcATL]

"Southern Pride" Why am I thinking code phrase here?

Probably because you're a yankee who's never lived in the south.

I'm in the South. I believe it's a dog-whistle, aka "code phrase," for many.

 

[Rocko]

Why do so many on the Right feel this way?

Anyone...?

Spot on, my friend. It's called deflection. As I posted several times on my thread on this:

I have trouble with this idea that a policy that obviously is designed to HELLP members of a minority race that has historically been discriminated against and perscuted in our country, is labeled "racist" because it may do so at the expense of the majority race (i.e., caucasians) that has been doing the persecuting all of these years.

That is not "raciscm." Rather, it is exactly the opposite. Might as well say that the kid who comes to the aid of a child who is being bullied in school, is himself a bully, because he is depriving the real bully of his fun.

What a piece of shit post.

 

[Rocko]

I have no idea if he's a racist. That's why I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said "almost all." I'm open to the possibility that he's one of the rare exceptions to the rule.

I live in the South, I've known several people who've flown variations of the confederate flag. Some of them weren't racist, just socially inept and clueless.

I don't fly a confederate battle flag, even though I was born in Texas and have lived most of my life in the South. The ONLY reason I won't fly it is because one of my ancestors, who also happens to bear my name, died in the civil war fighting for the union army. It has absolutely nothing to do with race. That flag represents Southern Pride to me. Not race.

"Southern Pride" Why am I thinking code phrase here?

Negged bitch!!!!
I have a phrase that isn't in code- The poster George Costanza is a fucking dumb fuck!!

 

[catzmeow]

I'm in the South. I believe it's a dog-whistle, aka "code phrase," for many.

Oh, I agree. It is for a certain percentage of people. But, so are code words like "Kenyan" and "Birth Certificate." The only people who appear to fixate on those terms are people who deeply resent having a black president.

However, taken as a stand alone statement, I don't believe it can accurately be used to determine what someone thinks about race. In fact, I'm generally inclined to cut people some degree of slack unless what they say is clear and overt...such as saying that "groups of blacks should be avoided." That's pretty clearly a racist statement. Southern pride...not so much.

At least where I live, there's a lot of hoopla about "Girls Raised in the South" (GRITS) and other southernisms.

I actually think that racism is less prevalent in my city than it is in a lot of places I've lived and worked. Here, when you see it, it tends to be overt, and not covert at all. But, I think that in my community, at least, it's more of an economic/class thing than it is a racial thing. People are bigoted (in fairly equal measure) against low class blacks and low class whites. And, People seem fairly supportive of black professionals and middle or upper income black families.

For instance, my city is 70% white, and but we have a black mayor, black police chief, and plenty of other black officials, including a ton of black principals and other administrators in predominantly white neighborhoods. I don't believe that the average racist down here would vote for a black mayor, truth be told, but in our last election, both candidates for mayor were black. You don't see that as much up north. You don't see black mayors...except in predominantly black communities. You don't see black chiefs...except in predominantly black communities.

It's a critical difference between the North and the South. Northerners tend to talk a good game about being non-racist, but they don't vote for black leaders and they don't want to live in integrated neighborhoods like we do down here.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

When a new person comes to this forum and they advise that they are somewhat conservative, I make a joke that they never have really arrived as a conservative until they have been called a racist by someone from the left. And quite frankly, that is EXACTLY how the term is being viewed at this time in American politics. It has lost it's teeth, and it is simply because the left has pulled the label so many times when they have no other response.

Disagreement with Barry's policies does NOT equal racism. The dislike of Van Jones (an avowed communist revolutionary) and Eric Holder (a poster child for incompetence or criminal malfeasence - refer to Fast & Furious and the New Black Panther Party) does not mean that you are a card carrying member of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or a soldier in the Aryan Brotherhood. What it means is that you dislike the things that they do, the policies they promote, or the ideology to which they aspire.

I know, I know... you're going to now call me a racist because I said that. Wow... I may lose sleep over it. Okay, I won't...

 

[catzmeow]

Disagreement with Barry's policies does NOT equal racism. The dislike of Van Jones (an avowed communist revolutionary) and Eric Holder does not mean that you are a card carrying member of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or a soldier in the Aryan Brotherhood. What it means is that you dislike the things that they do, the policies they promote, or the ideology to which they aspire.

I agree completely. It's not racist to dislike Barack Obama or Eric Holder because you feel they are pushing policies you don't like, or are inadequate at performing their jobs. It IS racist to dislike them because they're black.

However, some people lack the stones to state the obvious (that they don't like having black men in positions of power), so they rely on code phrases to communicate how "unAmerican" Barack Obama is (i.e., Kenyan).

Obama is an American. Further, he's a sitting president. If you don't like his policies, vehemently rebuke his policies. I completely support ANY American disliking ANY politician and attacking their policies. That's what we do here, it's part of being an American. If you dislike Obama, attack his policies and try and get him voted out of office. That's the American way.

But, don't attack his "Kenyan" dad or imply that he's less American because his dad is African. Not only does it make people look like they are retards who don't understand the constitution when they do that, it also suggests that they're probably racists.

Hell, to be truthful....both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin make my gag reflex spasm. But, I don't dislike them because they're white and female. I dislike them because I think they're terrible politicians. And, further, I'm not going to attack either of their children to get at them (a completely classless move in my book).

As far as being called a racist, cry me a fucking river. You can't take the shit that TM says seriously. EVER.

 

[MarcATL]

"Southern Pride" Why am I thinking code phrase here?

Probably because you're a yankee who's never lived in the south.

I'm in the South. I believe it's a dog-whistle, aka "code phrase," for many.

Another butt-hurt RWer that's obsessed w/rep...

Hi, you have received -103 reputation points from Rocko.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
fucking moron!

Regards,
Rocko

Note: This is an automated message.

 

[MarcATL]

I'm in the South. I believe it's a dog-whistle, aka "code phrase," for many.

Oh, I agree. It is for a certain percentage of people. But, so are code words like "Kenyan" and "Birth Certificate." The only people who appear to fixate on those terms are people who deeply resent having a black president.

However, taken as a stand alone statement, I don't believe it can accurately be used to determine what someone thinks about race. In fact, I'm generally inclined to cut people some degree of slack unless what they say is clear and overt...such as saying that "groups of blacks should be avoided." That's pretty clearly a racist statement. Southern pride...not so much.

At least where I live, there's a lot of hoopla about "Girls Raised in the South" (GRITS) and other southernisms.

I actually think that racism is less prevalent in my city than it is in a lot of places I've lived and worked. Here, when you see it, it tends to be overt, and not covert at all. But, I think that in my community, at least, it's more of an economic/class thing than it is a racial thing. People are bigoted (in fairly equal measure) against low class blacks and low class whites. And, People seem fairly supportive of black professionals and middle or upper income black families.

For instance, my city is 70% white, and but we have a black mayor, black police chief, and plenty of other black officials, including a ton of black principals and other administrators in predominantly white neighborhoods. I don't believe that the average racist down here would vote for a black mayor, truth be told, but in our last election, both candidates for mayor were black. You don't see that as much up north. You don't see black mayors...except in predominantly black communities. You don't see black chiefs...except in predominantly black communities.

It's a critical difference between the North and the South. Northerners tend to talk a good game about being non-racist, but they don't vote for black leaders and they don't want to live in integrated neighborhoods like we do down here.

Great points.

I'd like to invite you to visit Harlem, NY and/or Williamsburg, NY (in Brooklyn) Lots of whites there.

Your post illustrates the various manifestations of racism as it relates to the South and the North...interesting.

 

[gallantwarrior]

When a new person comes to this forum and they advise that they are somewhat conservative, I make a joke that they never have really arrived as a conservative until they have been called a racist by someone from the left. And quite frankly, that is EXACTLY how the term is being viewed at this time in American politics. It has lost it's teeth, and it is simply because the left has pulled the label so many times when they have no other response.

Disagreement with Barry's policies does NOT equal racism. The dislike of Van Jones (an avowed communist revolutionary) and Eric Holder (a poster child for incompetence or criminal malfeasence - refer to Fast & Furious and the New Black Panther Party) does not mean that you are a card carrying member of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or a soldier in the Aryan Brotherhood. What it means is that you dislike the things that they do, the policies they promote, or the ideology to which they aspire.

I know, I know... you're going to now call me a racist because I said that. Wow... I may lose sleep over it. Okay, I won't...

Sadly, no matter how often you reiterate the reasons you dislike or disagree with the "players" in this administration, you will still always be told by the leftist/progressives that you are racist and only feel the way you do because the players are black