Why do the God-haters persist?

[sealybobo]

Let's be clear, the OP is not "preaching against atheists" at all. It's preaching against "God-haters" who are completely a different breed. My sister, a devout Christian, considers ME an atheist. She will tell you that I am going straight to hell when I die. I love her, she's my sister, I respect what she believes, I just don't agree with it.

God-haters often hide behind the Atheist brand, or in silly boob's case, the Atheist Agnostic brand. They believe this lends an air of credibility to what they have to say, which is mostly a hate-filled denigration of God-believers. It's important to know the God-haters are not really Atheists, they believe in God, they just hate God.

You mistake hate for being passionate. Why is my passion hate but a christian who's just as loud and proud about their beliefs not? Hypocrite.

Listen once and for all fool. I don't claim to know what is on the other side of black holes. Because of that fact, I'm not a full blown atheist. I consider someone who is 100% sure there is no god to be just as ignorant as someone who is 100% sure there is one.

 

[Boss]

Let's be clear, the OP is not "preaching against atheists" at all. It's preaching against "God-haters" who are completely a different breed. My sister, a devout Christian, considers ME an atheist. She will tell you that I am going straight to hell when I die. I love her, she's my sister, I respect what she believes, I just don't agree with it.

God-haters often hide behind the Atheist brand, or in silly boob's case, the Atheist Agnostic brand. They believe this lends an air of credibility to what they have to say, which is mostly a hate-filled denigration of God-believers. It's important to know the God-haters are not really Atheists, they believe in God, they just hate God.

You mistake hate for being passionate. Why is my passion hate but a christian who's just as loud and proud about their beliefs not? Hypocrite.

Listen once and for all fool. I don't claim to know what is on the other side of black holes. Because of that fact, I'm not a full blown atheist. I consider someone who is 100% sure there is no god to be just as ignorant as someone who is 100% sure there is one.

But you are 99.999% sure there is no God, right?

 

[BreezeWood]

.

OP: True Atheists have absolutely no inclination to attack people who profess religious belief. If anything, they are amused by the "believers" and find them a bit of a novelty. Much like an adult who encounters a child believing in Santa or the Easter Bunny.

If anything, they are amused by the "believers" and find them a bit of a novelty.


sure thing Bossy, all believers are the same ... nothing to worry about.

.

 

[Boss]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let's be clear, the OP is not "preaching against atheists" at all. It's preaching against "God-haters" who are completely a different breed. My sister, a devout Christian, considers ME an atheist. She will tell you that I am going straight to hell when I die. I love her, she's my sister, I respect what she believes, I just don't agree with it.

God-haters often hide behind the Atheist brand, or in silly boob's case, the Atheist Agnostic brand. They believe this lends an air of credibility to what they have to say, which is mostly a hate-filled denigration of God-believers. It's important to know the God-haters are not really Atheists, they believe in God, they just hate God.

You mistake hate for being passionate. Why is my passion hate but a christian who's just as loud and proud about their beliefs not? Hypocrite.

Listen once and for all fool. I don't claim to know what is on the other side of black holes. Because of that fact, I'm not a full blown atheist. I consider someone who is 100% sure there is no god to be just as ignorant as someone who is 100% sure there is one.

But you are 99.999% sure there is no God, right?

How sure are you that the God of the most radical Muslims is not the one true God?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

 

[Boss]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Because I connect with my Spiritual God every day. Death and beheadings are not conducive with positive spiritual energy flow. Hate and intolerance are also not indicative of positive spiritual energy. Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.

These are examples of extreme religious fanaticism, and evidence that humans do spiritually connect. Fanatical religion can be very dangerous, which is why I am not a big fan of organized religion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Because I connect with my Spiritual God every day. Death and beheadings are not conducive with positive spiritual energy flow. Hate and intolerance are also not indicative of positive spiritual energy. Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.

These are examples of extreme religious fanaticism, and evidence that humans do spiritually connect. Fanatical religion can be very dangerous, which is why I am not a big fan of organized religion.

Your version of religion is very subjective, biased, and based on the musings of a temporal flesh and blood creature,

aka you. You have, in short, invented your own religion.

 

[Boss]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Because I connect with my Spiritual God every day. Death and beheadings are not conducive with positive spiritual energy flow. Hate and intolerance are also not indicative of positive spiritual energy. Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.

These are examples of extreme religious fanaticism, and evidence that humans do spiritually connect. Fanatical religion can be very dangerous, which is why I am not a big fan of organized religion.

Your version of religion is very subjective, biased, and based on the musings of a temporal flesh and blood creature,

aka you. You have, in short, invented your own religion.

Well, no. I have only presented my personal experiences here. I don't have a version of religion. I believe religions are human creations which stem from the human ability to spiritually connect with something greater than self. That can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing. I'm not here to defend any specific religion or their teachings.

God-haters, as we've seen in this thread, want to cajole people into a specific religious belief, then attack that belief. I don't play their game and it frustrates them to no end. I don't have a religion to attack, I am not a member of any religious group, what I believe is not a religious incarnation. I don't even make the argument that God is a deity or has humanistic attributes. Only that I am aware of a spiritual energy source that I gain benefit and blessing from in my everyday life. I am a temporal flesh and blood creature, my soul is not and my God is not.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Because I connect with my Spiritual God every day. Death and beheadings are not conducive with positive spiritual energy flow. Hate and intolerance are also not indicative of positive spiritual energy. Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.

These are examples of extreme religious fanaticism, and evidence that humans do spiritually connect. Fanatical religion can be very dangerous, which is why I am not a big fan of organized religion.

Your version of religion is very subjective, biased, and based on the musings of a temporal flesh and blood creature,

aka you. You have, in short, invented your own religion.

Well, no. I have only presented my personal experiences here. I don't have a version of religion. I believe religions are human creations which stem from the human ability to spiritually connect with something greater than self. That can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing. I'm not here to defend any specific religion or their teachings.

God-haters, as we've seen in this thread, want to cajole people into a specific religious belief, then attack that belief. I don't play their game and it frustrates them to no end. I don't have a religion to attack, I am not a member of any religious group, what I believe is not a religious incarnation. I don't even make the argument that God is a deity or has humanistic attributes. Only that I am aware of a spiritual energy source that I gain benefit and blessing from in my everyday life. I am a temporal flesh and blood creature, my soul is not and my God is not.

You're a phoney.

What if someone believes that humans are capable of self-governing without the crutch of an invisible unidentifiable supernatural being exerting some sort of invented imaginary power over them?

What's wrong with that?

 

[Boss]

You're a phoney.

What if someone believes that humans are capable of self-governing without the crutch of an invisible unidentifiable supernatural being exerting some sort of invented imaginary power over them?

What's wrong with that?

It doesn't work.

Case in point, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. Whenever humans are separated from their intrinsic ability to spiritually connect, their civilizations ultimately fail.

Also... there is nothing unidentifiable, supernatural, invented or imagined about human spirituality.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You're a phoney.

What if someone believes that humans are capable of self-governing without the crutch of an invisible unidentifiable supernatural being exerting some sort of invented imaginary power over them?

What's wrong with that?

It doesn't work.

Case in point, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. Whenever humans are separated from their intrinsic ability to spiritually connect, their civilizations ultimately fail.

Also... there is nothing unidentifiable, supernatural, invented or imagined about human spirituality.

So humans are such wretched creatures that superstitition is their only path to the preservation of their species on this earth...

 

[Boss]

So humans are such wretched creatures that superstitition is their only path to the preservation of their species on this earth...

If human spirituality were superstition, only about 25% of the species would be spiritual. Not the 90% we find.

Not sure where you get the "wretched creatures" bit, but I didn't say it.

Look, I understand the Atheist perspective of believing you can get by just fine without a God. Many individuals who have abandoned their spiritual connection do okay and never have a problem, but civilizations as a whole always fail without spirituality.

You see, without the human spiritual connection, there is no real moral accountability. It's not that people are wretched, they want to be good.... it's like having a 7-year-old operate a candy store. They may start out with every intention of doing a good job, but they have no business sense and no accountability... so what is going to happen there? Human civilizations simply don't last long without spiritual connection.

 

[Montrovant]

So humans are such wretched creatures that superstitition is their only path to the preservation of their species on this earth...

If human spirituality were superstition, only about 25% of the species would be spiritual. Not the 90% we find.

Not sure where you get the "wretched creatures" bit, but I didn't say it.

Look, I understand the Atheist perspective of believing you can get by just fine without a God. Many individuals who have abandoned their spiritual connection do okay and never have a problem, but civilizations as a whole always fail without spirituality.

You see, without the human spiritual connection, there is no real moral accountability. It's not that people are wretched, they want to be good.... it's like having a 7-year-old operate a candy store. They may start out with every intention of doing a good job, but they have no business sense and no accountability... so what is going to happen there? Human civilizations simply don't last long without spiritual connection.

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

 

[Boss]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

 

[edthecynic]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

So by your "logic" in this country where Atheists are shunned and mocked, at least half who believe in God pretend to be Atheists so they can be outcasts. Wouldn't it be more logical that it is the "believers" who would be more likely to pretend they believe for social acceptance when they actually don't believe? So if 50% of Atheists will pretend for social rejection, at least 99% of believers will pretend for social acceptance. So all those successful "spiritual" civilizations are actually mostly Atheistic and all the failed Atheistic civilizations are at least half spiritual.

 

[Boss]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

So by your "logic" in this country where Atheists are shunned and mocked, at least half who believe in God pretend to be Atheists so they can be outcasts. Wouldn't it be more logical that it is the "believers" who would be more likely to pretend they believe for social acceptance when they actually don't believe? So if 50% of Atheists will pretend for social rejection, at least 99% of believers will pretend for social acceptance. So all those successful "spiritual" civilizations are actually mostly Atheistic and all the failed Atheistic civilizations are at least half spiritual.

Huhh? Are you back on the crack again? I thought Atheists were the sophisticated and educated enlightened ones and religious folk were mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers? If anyone in America is shunned and mocked, it has to be the religious... ask Tim Tebow.

As I point out in the OP, most of who we see posting here are not true Atheists, they are God-haters. These are people who claim they are Atheists but actually just have a chip on their shoulder about God. They resent God and the people who worship God, for various reasons.

Gallup or Pew (can't recall which) did a survey of Atheism in Sweden, the most Atheist country in the world. 33% are self-professed Atheist and about 66% are religious. The 33% Atheists include about 17% who believe it's possible something may exist greater than self. Another 10% are not sure one way or the other, and the remaining approximate 6% were willing to state they do not believe it is possible that anything greater than self exists. This seems to coincide with study after study which show only about 5% of the human population are Nihilist.

Now there are lots of civilizations recorded in human history, but we have no example of a long-term civilization existing without spirituality. If there were such an example, it would be the very first word out of every Atheist's mouth when entering these type of debates.

 

[edthecynic]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

So by your "logic" in this country where Atheists are shunned and mocked, at least half who believe in God pretend to be Atheists so they can be outcasts. Wouldn't it be more logical that it is the "believers" who would be more likely to pretend they believe for social acceptance when they actually don't believe? So if 50% of Atheists will pretend for social rejection, at least 99% of believers will pretend for social acceptance. So all those successful "spiritual" civilizations are actually mostly Atheistic and all the failed Atheistic civilizations are at least half spiritual.

Huhh? Are you back on the crack again? ...

When you lead with a personal insult, you admit you are wrong.
Thank you.

 

[sealybobo]

Let's be clear, the OP is not "preaching against atheists" at all. It's preaching against "God-haters" who are completely a different breed. My sister, a devout Christian, considers ME an atheist. She will tell you that I am going straight to hell when I die. I love her, she's my sister, I respect what she believes, I just don't agree with it.

God-haters often hide behind the Atheist brand, or in silly boob's case, the Atheist Agnostic brand. They believe this lends an air of credibility to what they have to say, which is mostly a hate-filled denigration of God-believers. It's important to know the God-haters are not really Atheists, they believe in God, they just hate God.

You mistake hate for being passionate. Why is my passion hate but a christian who's just as loud and proud about their beliefs not? Hypocrite.

Listen once and for all fool. I don't claim to know what is on the other side of black holes. Because of that fact, I'm not a full blown atheist. I consider someone who is 100% sure there is no god to be just as ignorant as someone who is 100% sure there is one.

But you are 99.999% sure there is no God, right?

I'm 100% sure there is no god that talked to Abraham and that sends people to hell. Well, 99.9999% sure I guess because how can I know for certain, right? I wasn't there.

As far as the generic god you describe? I don't know what percentage I would give your god. Still pretty low probability. Lets just say I lean towards the notion that your god probably doesn't exist. I'm not at all convinced. If I had to bet I'd bet probably not.

 

[sealybobo]

Let's be clear, the OP is not "preaching against atheists" at all. It's preaching against "God-haters" who are completely a different breed. My sister, a devout Christian, considers ME an atheist. She will tell you that I am going straight to hell when I die. I love her, she's my sister, I respect what she believes, I just don't agree with it.

God-haters often hide behind the Atheist brand, or in silly boob's case, the Atheist Agnostic brand. They believe this lends an air of credibility to what they have to say, which is mostly a hate-filled denigration of God-believers. It's important to know the God-haters are not really Atheists, they believe in God, they just hate God.

You mistake hate for being passionate. Why is my passion hate but a christian who's just as loud and proud about their beliefs not? Hypocrite.

Listen once and for all fool. I don't claim to know what is on the other side of black holes. Because of that fact, I'm not a full blown atheist. I consider someone who is 100% sure there is no god to be just as ignorant as someone who is 100% sure there is one.

But you are 99.999% sure there is no God, right?

How sure are you that the God of the most radical Muslims is not the one true God?

I want to say 100% but again there is a very small chance I could be wrong so 99.9999 their god is made up too. Just like the Mormon stories. How sure am I that is not real? Pretty damn sure. So I don't think any organized religion has an edge over any of the other organized religions.

I was thinking the other day about people who deny the Holocaust happened. Why do I believe that happened? That too could be made up.

I guess because the Jews didn't tell us that god came and spoke to them or that someone in their camp turned water into wine or was born from a virgin or none of the jews that died came back to life.

There is no reason not to believe the Jews. But that's not the case for Christians who claim that mary was a virgin, god knocked her up, he turned water into wine, rose from the dead, healed the sick. See the difference? If Christians would have just told a better story maybe I'd still be a follower.

One day Christians will throw out the lies and then maybe they'll have a nice religion that I can get behind. Until they admit the stories aren't true, I can't be a follower because I can't follow what I know to be a lie.