Why aren't the anti-choice people against birth control pills.

[Si modo]

Yes, but as pointed out earlier it does so by the same mechanism that a woman already pregnant will not be able to get pregnant again if they have sex while pregnant.

It's the same hormones.

The only way to say this is hypocrisy is to say all women having sex during pregnancy are hypocrites.

I don't know what you're talking about, but look again: For those who missed my ealier link (from the package insert of Ortho-triclen (R)):

....
Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the
primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include
changes in the cervical mucus (which increase the difficulty of sperm entry into the uterus)
and the endometrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation).
....

[Emphasis added this time]

Go Ask Alice!: How do birth control pills work?

Again... you are focusing on a secondary 'safeguard' in the design of hormonal birth control... again... the main way a BC pill works if thru ovulation suppression

The FDA has a good grasp of how drugs work, so I'm confident in my source. Thank you anyway. Regardless, and as I an others have already stated several times, the primary mechanism of action of the Pill (combined - meaning more than one hormone used - oral contraceptive pill) IS prevention of fertilization. When that mechanism fails, the Pill has a secondary mechanism of action - prevention of implantation of the fertilized egg.

The single action oral contraceptive pills only prevent fertilization. They have a pretty high fail rate. The combined oral contraceptive pills, the most commonly used, have less of a fail rate due to more than one mechanism of action.

 

[teapartysamurai]

So, if you are religious, and Catholic....birth control is equal to abortion.

Well.. I am not catholic... but I at least respect them for choosing even more on the side of life... rather than going more towards the side of murder with supporting the abortions of developing kids that are growing within the mother....

Amen to that one! I applaud Catholics for going for life rather than death.

There is nothing wrong in living with your convictions, and letting your children live with them as well.

 

[L.K.Eder]

The only abortion it can cause is IF you keep taking it after embryonic implantation and THEN it would act as an 'abortion pill'... before implantation, it is not an abortion by definition...

Does life not begin at conception? You're telling me its not a human being until implantation? Since when? As soon as conception occurs, the unique collection of DNA that will determine a human beings genetic identity has already been formed.

Do you understand the difference between viable pregnancy and say eptopic pregnancy?

Not all fertilized eggs become properly implanted. Some of these will result in miscarriage. That's NATURAL.

Geesh! How can you tell when little boys are talking pregnancy? This dumbass stuff comes up.

ectopic, teabaguette.

 

[Si modo]

Go Ask Alice!: How do birth control pills work?

Again... you are focusing on a secondary 'safeguard' in the design of hormonal birth control... again... the main way a BC pill works if thru ovulation suppression

So its OK to take a human life as long as its a last resort to getting what you want?

You are about as fucking obtuse as they come

Ovulation suppression... learn about it... pregnancy.. learn about it.... in your fervor to try and bash someone against the process of abortions, you have gone completely outside the realm of fact and common sense

If obtuse is trying to understand what you are saying - what I am doing - then OK - whatever floats your boat.

Believe it or not, I have a pretty good grasp of biological process and especially pharmacology (you may have to look that up, but I will be pleased to describe it to you if needed).

What I have seen you say is exactly what you just quoted from me. If you wish to clarify, then do. Trying to insult me is no clarification. Articulation of your view, if it is not what I just said, would be helpful. I know you are not stupid, so I have confidence in your ability to articulate your view.

 

[teapartysamurai]

And you are misinformed. Eggs are not "produced." Women are born with every egg they are every going to have already in their bodies.

If I produce a rabbit from a hat do you assume I just created a rabbit?

Was that supposed to refute my argument or just deflect? What has one to do with the other? Not a thing. Other than every egg a RABBIT is ever going to have they are born with as well!

The pill simply stops them from being fertilized.

You are extremely misinformed.

So are you.
Birth Control Pill Causes Abortions -- Pro-Life America, Celebs expose abortion! Celebrities, Speakers, TV, Radio, Videos and Literature to help save moms and babies from the pain and suffering of abortion. Save sex for marriage and choose life, not [/quote]

As I pointed out, it is no more abortion than a woman being pregnant, having sex, prevents another pregnancy.

The same hormone mechanism is in play.

Now if some pro-lifers wish to view the pill that way, they most certainly can. That is their CHOICE (something you pro-deathers think is wonderful).

I prefer to take the more realistic view, that using the same hormones that prevent pregnancy NATURALLY is not abortion.

That being said, I don't use the pill anyway.

Your argument seems to be that all pro-lifers use the pill. I'm sorry but that is far from the truth.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The only abortion it can cause is IF you keep taking it after embryonic implantation and THEN it would act as an 'abortion pill'... before implantation, it is not an abortion by definition...

Does life not begin at conception? You're telling me its not a human being until implantation? Since when? As soon as conception occurs, the unique collection of DNA that will determine a human beings genetic identity has already been formed.

Do you understand the difference between viable pregnancy and say eptopic pregnancy?

Not all fertilized eggs become properly implanted. Some of these will result in miscarriage. That's NATURAL.

Geesh! How can you tell when little boys are talking pregnancy? This dumbass stuff comes up.

Does human life begin at conception? Yes or no?

Why are all the anti-choicers unwilling to answer this simple question?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Go Ask Alice!: How do birth control pills work?

Again... you are focusing on a secondary 'safeguard' in the design of hormonal birth control... again... the main way a BC pill works if thru ovulation suppression

So its OK to take a human life as long as its a last resort to getting what you want?

You are about as fucking obtuse as they come

Ovulation suppression... learn about it... pregnancy.. learn about it.... in your fervor to try and bash someone against the process of abortions, you have gone completely outside the realm of fact and common sense

Does human life being at conception?

 

[DiamondDave]

I don't know what you're talking about, but look again: For those who missed my ealier link (from the package insert of Ortho-triclen (R)):[Emphasis added this time]

Go Ask Alice!: How do birth control pills work?

Again... you are focusing on a secondary 'safeguard' in the design of hormonal birth control... again... the main way a BC pill works if thru ovulation suppression

The FDA has a good grasp of how drugs work, so I'm confident in my source. Thank you anyway. Regardless, and as I an others have already stated several times, the primary mechanism of action of the Pill (combined - meaning more than one hormone used - oral contraceptive pill) IS prevention of fertilization. When that mechanism fails, the Pill has a secondary mechanism of action - prevention of implantation of the fertilized egg.

The single action oral contraceptive pills only prevent fertilization. They have a pretty high fail rate. The combined oral contraceptive pills, the most commonly used, have less of a fail rate due to more than one mechanism of action.

And again.... the accepted medical definition of pregnancy is based on the time of implantation... as it is carrying an embryo, which only happens after implantation

Conception is an imprecise term based on the zygote or 'fertilized egg' stage.. one is not pregnant until implantation

Fertilized eggs are frequently discarded by the body in a natural process

So yes.. I will continue to side ore on the use of birth control and continue to be against the procedure of abortion to remove a developing human life from the womb

 

[DiamondDave]

So its OK to take a human life as long as its a last resort to getting what you want?

You are about as fucking obtuse as they come

Ovulation suppression... learn about it... pregnancy.. learn about it.... in your fervor to try and bash someone against the process of abortions, you have gone completely outside the realm of fact and common sense

Does human life being at conception?

Again.. Mr Obtuse.. pregnancy begins at implantation

 

[Si modo]

The only abortion it can cause is IF you keep taking it after embryonic implantation and THEN it would act as an 'abortion pill'... before implantation, it is not an abortion by definition...

Does life not begin at conception? You're telling me its not a human being until implantation? Since when? As soon as conception occurs, the unique collection of DNA that will determine a human beings genetic identity has already been formed.

Do you understand the difference between viable pregnancy and say eptopic pregnancy?

Not all fertilized eggs become properly implanted. Some of these will result in miscarriage. That's NATURAL.

Geesh! How can you tell when little boys are talking pregnancy? This dumbass stuff comes up.

The Pill also prevents implantaion of the fertilized egg. That's not 'natural', but that's OK to terminate?

 

[teapartysamurai]

...yes i'm a 'conservative' 'pro-lifer'..i believe in 'small government'



(but not so small the government can't have it's nose into womans' wombs!..and not so small it can't execute and jail people for terminating a pregnancy!..)

Another instance of complete ignorance.

A) The Federal governmnent got "involved" in women's womans with Roe v. Wade. Prior to that it was decided by the States as it should per the 10th Amendment. It was the USSC that UnConstitutionally involved itself in what should be a question for the sundry states by Roe v. Wade.

B) Show me a state that ever "executed" a woman for having an abortion. The last historic such case I'm aware of was more than 100 years ago and didn't happen in this country.

Thus we have more straw dog arguments that fall apart when the facts are implemented.

 

[Si modo]

You are about as fucking obtuse as they come

Ovulation suppression... learn about it... pregnancy.. learn about it.... in your fervor to try and bash someone against the process of abortions, you have gone completely outside the realm of fact and common sense

Does human life being at conception?

Again.. Mr Obtuse.. pregnancy begins at implantation

OK. Then life does not begin at conception. Got it. Good to know.

 

[teapartysamurai]

The answer is quite simple here.



Those who are educated and in the middle class or higher have better access to birth control and are more likely to use it properly. Therefore, the educated and higher class are less likely to ever be in a situation where they might consider an abortion. So its OK to kill a human life with a birth control pill, because if it wasn't, a bunch of successful conservative white women would have to either stop getting pounded by their Constitutional Party nut husband, or sit at home and have kids all the time.

Those who are ignorant and poor are more likely to need the abortion, therefore, its wrong to kill a human life by abortion.

Thank you Margaret Sanger, but the idea of eugenics went out with the end of Nazi Germany.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

As I pointed out, it is no more abortion than a woman being pregnant, having sex, prevents another pregnancy.

Don't women stop ovulating when they're pregnant?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You are about as fucking obtuse as they come

Ovulation suppression... learn about it... pregnancy.. learn about it.... in your fervor to try and bash someone against the process of abortions, you have gone completely outside the realm of fact and common sense

Does human life being at conception?

Again.. Mr Obtuse.. pregnancy begins at implantation

I didn't ask when pregnancy began.

Does human life being at conception?

 

[Meister]

Does human life being at conception?

Again.. Mr Obtuse.. pregnancy begins at implantation

I didn't ask when pregnancy began.

Does human life being at conception?

When the heart starts beating, so does human life.

 

[DiamondDave]

Does human life being at conception?

Again.. Mr Obtuse.. pregnancy begins at implantation

I didn't ask when pregnancy began.

Does human life being at conception?

Again Mr. Obtuse.. in order for human life development, nourishment, hormonal production, etc is needed.. when a blastocyst attaches.... WHICH HAPPENS AT MOTHERFUCKING IMPLANTATION

you are about as thick as a motherfucking brick

 

[Si modo]

Go Ask Alice!: How do birth control pills work?

Again... you are focusing on a secondary 'safeguard' in the design of hormonal birth control... again... the main way a BC pill works if thru ovulation suppression

The FDA has a good grasp of how drugs work, so I'm confident in my source. Thank you anyway. Regardless, and as I an others have already stated several times, the primary mechanism of action of the Pill (combined - meaning more than one hormone used - oral contraceptive pill) IS prevention of fertilization. When that mechanism fails, the Pill has a secondary mechanism of action - prevention of implantation of the fertilized egg.

The single action oral contraceptive pills only prevent fertilization. They have a pretty high fail rate. The combined oral contraceptive pills, the most commonly used, have less of a fail rate due to more than one mechanism of action.

And again.... the accepted medical definition of pregnancy is based on the time of implantation... as it is carrying an embryo, which only happens after implantation

Conception is an imprecise term based on the zygote or 'fertilized egg' stage.. one is not pregnant until implantation

Fertilized eggs are frequently discarded by the body in a natural process

So yes.. I will continue to side ore on the use of birth control and continue to be against the procedure of abortion to remove a developing human life from the womb

OK. Thanks for clarification. So, life does not begin at conception...for you.

It is OK to terminate the life of a fertilized egg because it does not have the potential to become a baby without the help of the woman's womb.

 

[teapartysamurai]

No TPS. Look at my link earlier. The Pill will prevent implantaion of the fertilized egg.

Yes, but as pointed out earlier it does so by the same mechanism that a woman already pregnant will not be able to get pregnant again if they have sex while pregnant.

It's the same hormones.

The only way to say this is hypocrisy is to say all women having sex during pregnancy are hypocrites.

I don't know what you're talking about, but look again: For those who missed my ealier link (from the package insert of Ortho-triclen (R)):

....
Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the
primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include
changes in the cervical mucus (which increase the difficulty of sperm entry into the uterus)
and the endometrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation).
....

[Emphasis added this time]

Honey! Same things happen in pregnancy:

Physiologic Changes During Pregnancy


Like I said, same hormones.

 

[DiamondDave]

The FDA has a good grasp of how drugs work, so I'm confident in my source. Thank you anyway. Regardless, and as I an others have already stated several times, the primary mechanism of action of the Pill (combined - meaning more than one hormone used - oral contraceptive pill) IS prevention of fertilization. When that mechanism fails, the Pill has a secondary mechanism of action - prevention of implantation of the fertilized egg.

The single action oral contraceptive pills only prevent fertilization. They have a pretty high fail rate. The combined oral contraceptive pills, the most commonly used, have less of a fail rate due to more than one mechanism of action.

And again.... the accepted medical definition of pregnancy is based on the time of implantation... as it is carrying an embryo, which only happens after implantation

Conception is an imprecise term based on the zygote or 'fertilized egg' stage.. one is not pregnant until implantation

Fertilized eggs are frequently discarded by the body in a natural process

So yes.. I will continue to side ore on the use of birth control and continue to be against the procedure of abortion to remove a developing human life from the womb

OK. Thanks for clarification. So, life does not begin at conception...for you.

It is OK to terminate the life of a fertilized egg because it does not have the potential to become a baby without the help of the woman's womb.

Life must feed.... the 'fertilized' egg, by nature cannot feed... it cannot adapt to the environment... this only happens after implantation