Who is the Greatest QB of All Time?

[BuckToothMoron]

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

Is running ability a requirement for a great QB? And why not take exception to Brady, as well?

Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.

Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.

While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.

But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored

It is like a closer in baseball
Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing

But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness

Football is still a team sport. Marino is an all time great, regardless of not winning a Super Bowl, IMO.

He absolutely is, just not one of the top 5.

 

[Decus]

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

Is running ability a requirement for a great QB? And why not take exception to Brady, as well?

Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.

Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.

While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.

But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored

It is like a closer in baseball
Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing

But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness

Football is still a team sport. Marino is an all time great, regardless of not winning a Super Bowl, IMO.

I grew up with the Dolphins and watched most of the games. I have to disagree. Marino had a quick release and two great receivers - Clayton and Duper. Both receivers often made Marino look good - they managed to catch some of the most inaccurate passes I've ever seen.

Marino also hated to get hit which had him screaming at his offensive line every time he got touched. He was rarely willing to hold the ball until a receiver got open - and risk getting hit - which partially explains his frequent lack of accuracy. Duper was truly Super and Clayton a magician in their ability to catch shit passes.

After Clayton and Duper left the team Marino's stats dropped.

.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I never watched a game this year for obvious reasons... I miss the NFL... I made a promise to myself I would not watch anymore until Goodell takes a powder... He has embarrassed the league...
Replacements for Goodell... Condoleezza Rice and Peyton Manning... Co-Commish's

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

 

[Geaux4it]

Joe Montana

-Geaux

 

[rightwinger]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

But QBs who make those kind of plays tend to have short careers
Scrambling and sacrificing your body to make a TD will make the highlight reels

But like we saw with RGIII and Carson Wentz putting your body at risk can keep you from greatness

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

But QBs who make those kind of plays tend to have short careers
Scrambling and sacrificing your body to make a TD will make the highlight reels

But like we saw with RGIII and Carson Wentz putting your body at risk can keep you from greatness

That’s true, it is the truly great QBs who know when to do it.

 

[Montrovant]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

 

[rightwinger]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

I just can't put Elway as my all time greatest

I just can't forget the beatdown Joe Montana gave him in the Superbowl....something like 55-10
No way I could ever put Elway over Montana

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

I just can't put Elway as my all time greatest

I just can't forget the beatdown Joe Montana gave him in the Superbowl....something like 55-10
No way I could ever put Elway over Montana

Oh I totally agree with that. In my mind, the debate starts at number 3, because Brady/Montana are 1-2.

 

[Montrovant]

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana
Manning
Elway
Marino

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl. When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.

 

[rightwinger]

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl. When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.

Manning cost them the game against the Saints
With a chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter, he threw a pick 6....lost them the game

 

[GHook93]

Unitas was a superstar in the days before QBs were protected from almost all contact. How would Brady do, if he knew he could get smacked hard on every passing play?

Are you kidding. Players nowadays are 10x bigger, stronger and faster. The game requires more strategy. The better question is how would Unitas compete today!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[konradv]

Unitas was a superstar in the days before QBs were protected from almost all contact. How would Brady do, if he knew he could get smacked hard on every passing play?

Are you kidding. Players nowadays are 10x bigger, stronger and faster. The game requires more strategy. The better question is how would Unitas compete today!

With the protection QBs get today I don't doubt he'd be able to pick defenses apart. QB is about smarts as much as athleticism.

 

[ChrisL]

I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl. When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.

I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers. That definitely helps his stats.

 

[Montrovant]

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl. When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.

I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers. That definitely helps his stats.

That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.

 

[ChrisL]

True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl. When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.

I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers. That definitely helps his stats.

That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.

I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man! He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.

 

[ChrisL]

I would imagine that when a player suffers a serious injury, the psychological factors and fear of being hurt and injured plays a HUGE role in their future performances. Some of them can probably get past that while others never really do.

 

[Montrovant]

Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %. Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.

That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.

Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl. When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.

I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers. That definitely helps his stats.

That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.

I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man! He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.

Yeah, a combination of the injury and age caught up to Manning.